Proposal: Aleksandar Georgiev to Oilers

[TFHockey]

At the absolute, worst-case minimum, Georgiev will yield the Rangers a 2nd in the offseason (assuming he signs an offer sheet).

If I'm the Rangers, any deal made today needs to be in the context of that.

Personally, I don't see why the Rangers would do Georgiev + a 2nd for Koskinen. It seems to be an immediate downgrade, with the only upside being that "maybe Koski wants to resign to be the backup".

To me, Georgiev needs to be used to acquire somebody that can help the Rangers up front. Maybe they like Foegele, or Yamamoto, or McLeod, or Benson, or Puljujarvi... I'm not pretending to know what the "right" target is, but seems to me that if the Rangers are going to subtract in goal, it's to get better up front.

Something along the lines of one of those guys, plus Koskinen, for Georgiev and a lesser Ranger forward.

I don't see Georgiev for a 2nd being the absolutely worst case minimum. You're implying he'll get a 1st (or a 2nd +) or the Oilers would ever consider trading one of their decent forwards (Puljujarvi? Are you kidding?) and I really, REALLY don't see that. He hasn't earned that kind of value and there are legitimate concerns as to whether the Rangers can sign him. If they clearly cannot this also impacts his trade value.

I think a 2nd is the max anyone will go and to look at it otherwise suggests homer glasses are on.

 

[seanlinden]

I don't see Georgiev for a 2nd being the absolutely worst case minimum. You're implying he'll get a 1st (or a 2nd +) or the Oilers would ever consider trading one of their decent forwards (Puljujarvi? Are you kidding?) and I really, REALLY don't see that. He hasn't earned that kind of value and there are legitimate concerns as to whether the Rangers can sign him. If they clearly cannot this also impacts his trade value.

I think a 2nd is the max anyone will go and to look at it otherwise suggests homer glasses are on.

That's what he'd get on an offer-sheet.

I'm not suggesting that he's "worth any more than that", but rather, that the Rangers don't have much reason to move him unless they can get something different / that actually helps them.

 

[ManofSteel55]

As crazy as it sounds, Koskinen is a big part of any wins the Oilers have had recently. He's been playing excellent, so its risky moving him for an unproven guy like Georgiev. It's a smart move long term, but it could put our chance at the playoffs at risk.

 

[TFHockey]

That's what he'd get on an offer-sheet.

I'm not suggesting that he's "worth any more than that", but rather, that the Rangers don't have much reason to move him unless they can get something different / that actually helps them.

They do have reason to move him, bluntly. I don't think they can sign him in the off season to an extension.

So the narrative that most NYR fans have is that Georgiev is moving on and the Rangers should try and get something for him while they can.

 

[ManofSteel55]

That's what he'd get on an offer-sheet.

I'm not suggesting that he's "worth any more than that", but rather, that the Rangers don't have much reason to move him unless they can get something different / that actually helps them.

I don't see why that is the bench mark. Is anyone going to offer sheet him? Unlikely.

 

[seanlinden]

They do have reason to move him, bluntly. I don't think they can sign him in the off season to an extension.

So the narrative that most NYR fans have is that Georgeiv is moving on and the Rangers should try and get something for him while they can.

What's he gonna do? go to the KHL?

He's got a $2.65m qualifier. The Rangers will likely tender him that. If he doesn't want to sign it, go sign an offer sheet for $3-4m on a couple of years to a team that believes in you. Rangers get a 2nd round pick.

 

[Hobnobs]

That's what he'd get on an offer-sheet.

I'm not suggesting that he's "worth any more than that", but rather, that the Rangers don't have much reason to move him unless they can get something different / that actually helps them.

Who is going to offer sheet him?

 

[bernmeister]

I could live with Georgeiv, but what about swapping Smith out for Koskinen?

this yr not a prob but next yr EVERY nickel of cap is critical.
In theory there is a cost to moving Smith [like has been w/Kosk] and NY like any team could avoid the $ if it pays the cost.
But that actually existing consideration should not be glossed over/ignored as though it did not.

How about this for something constructive:
Smith is one season after this at 2.2
Nemeth is two seasons at 2.5

No retaining on Smith or Nemeth
Geo max retained at half + Nemeth + NYR 2022 4th
for
Smith + EDM 2022 2nd

Oil get extra cap elbow room now, trade down but still get a pick + Geo, and potentially useful larger D for depth. They are on the hook for an extra yr at 2.5, but that is not esp onerous given what they are paying/getting, and if nec Nemeth can be moved for less w/only 1 yr expiring as his final yr approaches.

Rangers upgrade pick, get a body in case Martians kidnap Shesty, lose longer term cap and will decide among in house youth who will replace Geo as Shesty back up, and likely deal Smith for cheap as an expiring to a team w/an injury.

Thoughts?

Not a bad deal for the Oilers, I wouldn't take it as the Rangers, but I don't think the Oilers should be bargain shopping. As I've said in the relevant threads, Oilers need to pony up enough to shake loose a legit starter, not a maybe, change of scenery, has been, perhaps with more ice time, types. A real starter worthy of sharing the ice with McDavid and Draisaitl.

The unicorn referenced in the bold not visible, let alone available.
There is a thread w/MAF saying I'd rather stay, and MAF is an historically superior option based on his ability to control his own superior reflexes. Howev he is up there and if he loses that overnight, and cannot readjust overnight, you're screwed.
Any higher end G is gonna cost. For real, not cheap.

I don't understand this logic NYR fans say in litterally every Geo to EDM proposal the past several weeks. Why give more icetime to someone who isn't performing in limited icetime? With this logic of "he just needs to start consistently", every backup in the league should be a starter. It's the lack of consistent icetime and getting in a groove thats holding them back.

If he was as good/decent as he's being made out to be, he would be a 1B for the NYR and he wouldn't be "cheap" to acquire as so many keep saying he would be.

faulty reasoning by you here.
Actuality:
Geo needs IN OTHER WORDS PREDICATE, MUST HAVE regular work
which means starter mins.
There is only 1 set of starter mins which are going to Shesty in any/every event

You somehow push that Geo should perform as sharp as a starter w/o starter mins to begin with.

 

[TFHockey]

this yr not a prob but next yr EVERY nickel of cap is critical.
In theory there is a cost to moving Smith [like has been w/Kosk] and NY like any team could avoid the $ if it pays the cost.
But that actually existing consideration should not be glossed over/ignored as though it did not.

How about this for something constructive:
Smith is one season after this at 2.2
Nemeth is two seasons at 2.5

No retaining on Smith or Nemeth
Geo max retained at half + Nemeth + NYR 2022 4th
for
Smith + EDM 2022 2nd

Oil get extra cap elbow room now, trade down but still get a pick + Geo, and potentially useful larger D for depth. They are on the hook for an extra yr at 2.5, but that is not esp onerous given what they are paying/getting, and if nec Nemeth can be moved for less w/only 1 yr expiring as his final yr approaches.

Rangers upgrade pick, get a body in case Martians kidnap Shesty, lose longer term cap and will decide among in house youth who will replace Geo as Shesty back up, and likely deal Smith for cheap as an expiring to a team w/an injury.

Thoughts?


The unicorn referenced in the bold not visible, let alone available.
There is a thread w/MAF saying I'd rather stay, and MAF is an historically superior option based on his ability to control his own superior reflexes. Howev he is up there and if he loses that overnight, and cannot readjust overnight, you're screwed.
Any higher end G is gonna cost. For real, not cheap.


faulty reasoning by you here.
Actuality:
Geo needs IN OTHER WORDS PREDICATE, MUST HAVE regular work
which means starter mins.
There is only 1 set of starter mins which are going to Shesty in any/every event

You somehow push that Geo should perform as sharp as a starter w/o starter mins to begin with.

The Oilers are in no position to take on any extra cap hits, whether this year or next. I think Nemeth is a cap dump in the scenario and is a non starter for Edmonton because of their extremely tight cap constraints.

 

[cwgatti]

I am very corious to see a goaltending tandem of Stuart Skinner/Aleksandar Georgiev

Georgiev shouldn’t be very expansive to grab from NYR. Let’s say Koskinen at 50% + 3rd rounder/middle ranked winger prospect.

Then just waive Smith and send him away from the team on vacation.

Knowing Holland, he would never waive Smith and I think Georgiev is to young and unproven for his liking…..

I'm a Rangers fan, and I don't think this would be a bad deal for the NYR at all. Georgiev is a bit expensive as our backup. Not sure about KOskinen's salary, but it would have to be much less than Georgiev's as part of the deal. I'd like to save a $mil and use that for Patrick Kane deal that should be NYR #1 priority.

 

[seanlinden]

I don't see why that is the bench mark. Is anyone going to offer sheet him? Unlikely.

If you believe in Georgiev as a potential future #1 goalie, then personally, I don't see why not?

It's not like this year's UFA class is ripe with goalies that anyone would want to "hitch their hopes on". Georgiev might not be either, but he's certainly young enough that a team who thinks they're maybe a year or two away to take a gamble on.

I look at Chicago, Buffalo, Arizona, Detroit as easy targets for this type of move.

 

[Just a Fan]

this yr not a prob but next yr EVERY nickel of cap is critical.
In theory there is a cost to moving Smith [like has been w/Kosk] and NY like any team could avoid the $ if it pays the cost.
But that actually existing consideration should not be glossed over/ignored as though it did not.

How about this for something constructive:
Smith is one season after this at 2.2
Nemeth is two seasons at 2.5

No retaining on Smith or Nemeth
Geo max retained at half + Nemeth + NYR 2022 4th
for
Smith + EDM 2022 2nd

Oil get extra cap elbow room now, trade down but still get a pick + Geo, and potentially useful larger D for depth. They are on the hook for an extra yr at 2.5, but that is not esp onerous given what they are paying/getting, and if nec Nemeth can be moved for less w/only 1 yr expiring as his final yr approaches.

Rangers upgrade pick, get a body in case Martians kidnap Shesty, lose longer term cap and will decide among in house youth who will replace Geo as Shesty back up, and likely deal Smith for cheap as an expiring to a team w/an injury.

Thoughts?


The unicorn referenced in the bold not visible, let alone available.
There is a thread w/MAF saying I'd rather stay, and MAF is an historically superior option based on his ability to control his own superior reflexes. Howev he is up there and if he loses that overnight, and cannot readjust overnight, you're screwed.
Any higher end G is gonna cost. For real, not cheap.


faulty reasoning by you here.
Actuality:
Geo needs IN OTHER WORDS PREDICATE, MUST HAVE regular work
which means starter mins.
There is only 1 set of starter mins which are going to Shesty in any/every event

You somehow push that Geo should perform as sharp as a starter w/o starter mins to begin with.

Why in God's name is a cap strapped team like the Oilers taking back a cap dump in Nemeth?

No need to over complicate things by trying to force your unwanted contracts in...Geo(+) for Koskinen+2nd is fair.

 

[OG Eberle]

\
faulty reasoning by you here.
Actuality:
Geo needs IN OTHER WORDS PREDICATE, MUST HAVE regular work
which means starter mins.
There is only 1 set of starter mins which are going to Shesty in any/every event

You somehow push that Geo should perform as sharp as a starter w/o starter mins to begin with.

Again, with this logic, every backup would perform better as a starter because "they need regular minutes" to get in a groove.

It doesn't work like that mate.

 

[ManofSteel55]

this yr not a prob but next yr EVERY nickel of cap is critical.
In theory there is a cost to moving Smith [like has been w/Kosk] and NY like any team could avoid the $ if it pays the cost.
But that actually existing consideration should not be glossed over/ignored as though it did not.

How about this for something constructive:
Smith is one season after this at 2.2
Nemeth is two seasons at 2.5

No retaining on Smith or Nemeth
Geo max retained at half + Nemeth + NYR 2022 4th
for
Smith + EDM 2022 2nd

Oil get extra cap elbow room now, trade down but still get a pick + Geo, and potentially useful larger D for depth. They are on the hook for an extra yr at 2.5, but that is not esp onerous given what they are paying/getting, and if nec Nemeth can be moved for less w/only 1 yr expiring as his final yr approaches.

Rangers upgrade pick, get a body in case Martians kidnap Shesty, lose longer term cap and will decide among in house youth who will replace Geo as Shesty back up, and likely deal Smith for cheap as an expiring to a team w/an injury.

Thoughts?


The unicorn referenced in the bold not visible, let alone available.
There is a thread w/MAF saying I'd rather stay, and MAF is an historically superior option based on his ability to control his own superior reflexes. Howev he is up there and if he loses that overnight, and cannot readjust overnight, you're screwed.
Any higher end G is gonna cost. For real, not cheap.


faulty reasoning by you here.
Actuality:
Geo needs IN OTHER WORDS PREDICATE, MUST HAVE regular work
which means starter mins.
There is only 1 set of starter mins which are going to Shesty in any/every event

You somehow push that Geo should perform as sharp as a starter w/o starter mins to begin with.

This has become standard narrative, but let's be real here, he's never had a long enough time to prove if his better performance that one time Shesterkin was hurt was a hot streak or was actually because he plays better when he is playing more. That's not fact, that's a storyline being used to try to prop up his value.

You try to squeeze extra value out of cap dumps for a few months, but then include Nemeth for years? How much extra are the Rangers paying the Oillers to take that awful contract for an entire extra year over the Smith deal, which we might be able to LTIR anyway?

It's pretty bad when you have a 6 piece deal and the most valuable piece is the 2nd round draft pick.

 

[ManofSteel55]

If you believe in Georgiev as a potential future #1 goalie, then personally, I don't see why not?

It's not like this year's UFA class is ripe with goalies that anyone would want to "hitch their hopes on". Georgiev might not be either, but he's certainly young enough that a team who thinks they're maybe a year or two away to take a gamble on.

I look at Chicago, Buffalo, Arizona, Detroit as easy targets for this type of move.

Does anyone really believe Georgiev is a potential #1 still though? Like, a sure-fire, gonna give him an offer sheet because I know this kid is our goalie of the future type potential? I don't think so. He's firmly planted in the "we're desperate and maybe he will be able to help" territory. Nearly a reclamation project. I wouldn't be surprised if the Rangers don't even qualify him.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Does anyone really believe Georgiev is a potential #1 still though? Like, a sure-fire, gonna give him an offer sheet because I know this kid is our goalie of the future type potential? I don't think so. He's firmly planted in the "we're desperate and maybe he will be able to help" territory. Nearly a reclamation project. I wouldn't be surprised if the Rangers don't even qualify him.

I think he's closer to a sure-fire starter than a reclamation project. And the Rangers likely won't qualify him because it's going to be too much for a back up who is not a good back up.

 

[ManofSteel55]

I think he's closer to a sure-fire starter than a reclamation project. And the Rangers likely won't qualify him because it's going to be too much for a back up who is not a good back up.

Given that he can't even be a good backup, I'm not so sure about that. Teams usually want a goalie that can earn their way to being a starter. Georgiev hasn't done that, he just played well with Shesterkin out.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Given that he can't even be a good backup, I'm not so sure about that. Teams usually want a goalie that can earn their way to being a starter. Georgiev hasn't done that, he just played well with Shesterkin out.

You be a good goalie and a mediocre backup. Throughout his career he's been at his best when he's been the starter—whether that was when the other guy was injured or the Rangers gave him net for an extended period of time. He struggles when he starts once every two weeks. Unfortunately for him, he's wanted to be a starter on teams with Lundqvist and Shesterkin—and he's not as good as them.

 

[ElPrimeTime]

No need to over complicate things by trying to force your unwanted contracts in...Geo(+) for Koskinen+2nd is fair.

I disagree it on being fair. Georgiev hasn't proven he's better than Koskinen and no matter how many times people say "he'll be great as a starter" it's still not proven. Koskinen and Georgiev have similar season stats, with Koskinen being better recently. One is also an RFA vs. UFA, so if Georgiev is average, we just gave up a 2nd with the privilege of trying to re-sign or letting him walk ala AA.

 

[bucks_oil]

I am very corious to see a goaltending tandem of Stuart Skinner/Aleksandar Georgiev

Georgiev shouldn’t be very expansive to grab from NYR. Let’s say Koskinen at 50% + 3rd rounder/middle ranked winger prospect.

Then just waive Smith and send him away from the team on vacation.

Knowing Holland, he would never waive Smith and I think Georgiev is to young and unproven for his liking…..

I came into this thread expecting to poop on it... but it's not a terrible proposal. I guess I got here before Bern did

I'm not quite sure I'd go as far as a 2nd (with no Kosko retention) as was suggested, but a 3rd, sure... or a 3rd + C+ prospect, something like that would be worth the risk. I also don't fully buy the "he'll be better as a starter" bit, but change of scenery and fresh starts can go a long way.

Smith's salary doesn't preclude us getting a decent starter if one comes available in trade, and in the meantime, we audition Georgiev and see whether he's worth that qualifying offer. Otherwise we move on this summer.

 

[Just a Fan]

I disagree it on being fair. Georgiev hasn't proven he's better than Koskinen and no matter how many times people say "he'll be great as a starter" it's still not proven. Koskinen and Georgiev have similar season stats, with Koskinen being better recently. One is also an RFA vs. UFA, so if Georgiev is average, we just gave up a 2nd with the privilege of trying to re-sign or letting him walk ala AA.

I won't argue, i've watched Geo play quite a few times, kid shows flashes of greatness.

 

[ElLeetch]

I am very corious to see a goaltending tandem of Stuart Skinner/Aleksandar Georgiev

Georgiev shouldn’t be very expansive to grab from NYR. Let’s say Koskinen at 50% + 3rd rounder/middle ranked winger prospect.

Then just waive Smith and send him away from the team on vacation.

Knowing Holland, he would never waive Smith and I think Georgiev is to young and unproven for his liking…..

a boat anchor and a 3rd? yeah, no thanks. at this point, taking Koskinen is a punishment, not a prize.

 

[Double Dion]

a boat anchor and a 3rd? yeah, no thanks. at this point, taking Koskinen is a punishment, not a prize.

Koskinen actually isn't that bad. His problem is he only has 30 or so good games in him per year. That and the Oilers top players don't like to play defense and their blueline is terrible defensively.

 

[ManofSteel55]

You be a good goalie and a mediocre backup. Throughout his career he's been at his best when he's been the starter—whether that was when the other guy was injured or the Rangers gave him net for an extended period of time. He struggles when he starts once every two weeks. Unfortunately for him, he's wanted to be a starter on teams with Lundqvist and Shesterkin—and he's not as good as them.

Being good for a few weeks at a time when leaned on isn't going to be enough to convince NHL teams that he should be their starting goalie.

 

[ManofSteel55]

a boat anchor and a 3rd? yeah, no thanks. at this point, taking Koskinen is a punishment, not a prize.

Well apparently Georgiev is a horrible backup, and Koskinen has shown to be good when not overworked, so it feels like he would actually be a better fit for that role.