Alain Vigneault puts players on notice
- Thread starter RangerBoy
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Clown Fiesta
Registered User
Not 8 Games into a 5 year contract, this is a tired comment. He's not getting fired, and we shouldn't want him to be. Reason being? Something has to give, would you rather it be the coaching staff again, or the roster? I'd rather we get some actual talent personally.
Aside from that, we've seen what this team can do when they play AV's system and give a good effort, a dominant win over LA and the Caps. A few games have been decent and not great, the thing is in the last couple of games we haven't seen the mental lapses, what we have seen is this teams effort sucking and their skills sucking. Although they may be trying hard and just sucking in general it's tough to say.
Several reporters have mentioned AV isn't going anywhere. Get the guy some pieces that will work for him and see what happens, if he still can't win get rid of him.
You see that Torts is still winning in Vancouver, he has a lot more talent there than he did when he came here and lost. He is able to implement his style without going into total collapse mode because of that skill.
Yep. I really do believe it's just skill level at this point.
I mean it certainly doesn't help that we don't have Nash, Cally or Hags available, but even then. You'll notice that winning teams get contributions all through the lineup at different times. Rookies step it up and make an impact, grinders and energy guys chip in and can actually win some games virtually on their own. We get none of that. Nada. Ever.
We always rely on 2-3 guys to score the majority of goals and be a threat. Right now we have ONE in the lineup. Even with last year's defense and Hank I'm not sure we'd be a .500 team atm. Just. Can't. Score.
So yeah, I'd much prefer a re-tool than to force our way into a middle pick or quick playoff exit. Anything can happen in the playoffs, sure, but I have zero faith in this team doing any damage as things stand. Absolutely none. Opinions can, do, and should evolve. I'm still waiting for 20~ games in to make a more defiant stand on what I think, but as of right now I just wanna see kids develop, moves made, the system learned, and hopefully a decent draft or two. Baby steps. This is not a cup challenge team and simply will not be for some time. Faster people accept that and look to other things, the less insufferable it becomes!
I mean it certainly doesn't help that we don't have Nash, Cally or Hags available, but even then. You'll notice that winning teams get contributions all through the lineup at different times. Rookies step it up and make an impact, grinders and energy guys chip in and can actually win some games virtually on their own. We get none of that. Nada. Ever.
We always rely on 2-3 guys to score the majority of goals and be a threat. Right now we have ONE in the lineup. Even with last year's defense and Hank I'm not sure we'd be a .500 team atm. Just. Can't. Score.
So yeah, I'd much prefer a re-tool than to force our way into a middle pick or quick playoff exit. Anything can happen in the playoffs, sure, but I have zero faith in this team doing any damage as things stand. Absolutely none. Opinions can, do, and should evolve. I'm still waiting for 20~ games in to make a more defiant stand on what I think, but as of right now I just wanna see kids develop, moves made, the system learned, and hopefully a decent draft or two. Baby steps. This is not a cup challenge team and simply will not be for some time. Faster people accept that and look to other things, the less insufferable it becomes!
Ilovemymum
recreational MD
- Feb 17, 2010
- 876
- 0
Isn't is just as much about a lot of players being completely out of shape? Apart from Richards, the entire squad is player at a lower lever than the previous seasons. Stepan, Hank, DZ, Stall, Brassard, Zuke. Biron, Kreider untill yesterday. Could the shortened camp maybe have had a negative impact? When everybody's healthy, this is a pretty good lineup when the play up to their potential. But they better start soon, and AV is the key to figuring that out. And he will. Sometime.
broadwayblue
Registered User
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
beef 4 lunch
Registered User
- Jan 24, 2011
- 239
- 0
Agreed. Making the playoffs is the worst thing that could happen this season. This team needs to crash and burn, dump dead weight and reassess contracts. This is the perfect time for it....new coach, lots of UFA's.
Wamsutta
I'm Glen Sather IRL
BroadwayBlues
KK24
No it's not, but my fear is that the team will do something stupid to try and "shake up the team" and that, in my opinion, is a bad thing. At least Sather has his finger on the pulse of the team. I wonder if he's noticed that the team doesn't have one?
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
Based purely on look and feel of this team, I see a lot of things that are disturbingly reminiscent of the Ron Low years. A disconnect between the coach and his players. A frustrating helplessness. A general malaise.
I know they're losing but there doesn't seem to be any spirit to this team.
I know they're losing but there doesn't seem to be any spirit to this team.
What do you describe as stupid? Sather really doesn't have much cap space to add significant dollars without shedding money in the deal or in another deal. The majority of the NHL is capped out.
beef 4 lunch
Registered User
- Jan 24, 2011
- 239
- 0
To me, stupid would be any move based solely in getting this team into the playoffs this year. Giving up draft picks and/or propects with a shred of potential would be stupid. Losing builds character and will identify players that want the here. I'm sick of underperforming teams being "rescued" by the next sure thing deadline deal.
A Clowe-esque trade would be stupid. Shuffling veteran players in the bottom-six would be stupid. Adding another depth defender would be stupid. That's the kind of move I'm talking about. I'm perfectly open to change, but it needs to have some sort of foresight involved. No 'quick fix' or 'bandaid' trades.
If they can bring in players that fit whatever direction they're trying to go, that's fine with me, but I'd really like to see something at least resembling a plan. No more mish-mashing of players.
Brooklyn Rangers Fan
Change is good.
First of all, I still think it's too early to give up on this team. 15-20 games in is the mark for me.
That said, I have no problem with the idea of bottoming out - haven't had one since we first started debating the idea coming out of the first lockout (remember those debates when we were making deadline moves for Jokinens and Antropovs to squeak into the POs?) and I would kill for true home-grown offensive talent. But do you think most posters (much less most fans) are on board with the idea? Truly bottoming out and rebuilding likely involves moving Hank...
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
I don't know what you think an additional 7-12 games is going to show. It's not as if they've shown a steady improvement on a game to game basis.
They were blown out by the better teams. Now they're losing closer games to bad teams.
NYR Viper
Registered User
Losing to both the Flyers AND the Devils is a pretty poor sign IMO. That is what has really made me worry.
Brooklyn Rangers Fan
Change is good.
Eh, you've seen teams in all sports pull it together after a rough start. A quarter of the way in is about the right time to start making definitive judgments.
Also, on the flip side of the same coin, I don't want the front office making any moves before then, because if they ARE that bad, I want them to firmly establish it so that they remove the temptation for deck chair shuffling and commit to difference making moves. Don't trade Taylor Pyatt for Adam Hall when you're 2-6-0; get to, say, 4-15-3 and trade Dan Girardi for Mika Zibanejad plus a 1st.
It's hard for me to be optimistic about this team right now. If we were losing tight games where we just weren't getting the bounces, that'd be one thing, but we've been grossly outplayed, outworked, and flat out embarrassed on most nights. Yes, the injuries are a concern, but the injuries weren't to our defense, and that group has been stellar for a couple years now but has looked terrible to start the year.
This fan base will buy into just about anything. The idea of not being able to rebuild in NY stems from the idea that losing will drive fans away and drive down revenue, but when has a NY team really tried to market a rebuild to it's fans? The Rangers were awful for years, and people still went to the games. The Rangers have the marketing ability to spin a rebuild as something positive, but most importantly, something different from the "we're paying a lot of has-beens and washouts to suck nightly at MSG."
I for one think most fans would embrace a "new era" of young, determined, hard working players, and they'd be willing to suffer through a year, perhaps two, of **** in order to get there provided that the organization didn't lock itself behind closed doors and keep them out of the loop. You don't have to necessarily trade Hank, but you'd definitely need to move some other pieces.
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
My question still remains: what makes you think that what this team needs is time?
Lets disregard the points, the team stats, the player stats and the standings. Lets focus on the gameplay. I have watched every pre-season game and every regular season game, I assume you did too.
So you will or you should notice that this team is not playing decent. For 6 games and every pre-season game we have played horribly. Yes, I will put players on notice but if I do that then you have to realize that these players are trying to follow a game plan. A breakout play, a penalty killing system, a defensive structure and a transition game.
Watching last nights game was hardly different from any other game. We have a very high ratio of giving up HQS vs having HQS. HQS is high quality shots.
Heck, I cant honestly say we have had a decent break out or a decent amount of HQS in any game this year under AV besides 2 games.
Decent is a horrible description of the games we have played. Against the leagues worst teams (Flyers and Devils) we have lost and played HORRIBLE. Against the leagues best teams (LA, SJ) we have been an embarrassment.
I wish we we had Devil issues. Where we lose games but at least its CLOSE. At least we look competitive... at least we seem to have a chance at playing well the rest of the year.
We are playing horrific.
This is basically the same roster Torts had last season and he made the playoffs. Heck, they played "decent" and great in most games. This year. We have played good 2 games, and horrible 6 games.
If Brad Richards didnt score that lucky shot on a LOW QUALITY SHOT, we would have been shut out.
Torts had Gaborik out for extended time, Dubinsky was in an offensive slump, Sauer was gone all year, Staal was gone half a year and recovered a concussion, Callahan was hurt in the beginning of the year and we had a long array of young players (younger than we have now) and he made no excuses when we were forced in the beginning of the year to have a long away schedule that started in Europe and then we traveled to west coast. No excuses and then we went to the ECF.
Sather threw that 11-12 team out the window. He went outside and picked up the pieces the best he could and tried to rearrange it but has failed.
Brooklyn Rangers Fan
Change is good.
I'm as concerned as the rest of you, but I simply think it's too small a sample size, especially coming off of Slats's bizarro training camp, key injuries, etc. I don't think that the odds are high that they turn it around, but there's nothing gained by making moves now vs. 3-4 weeks from now.
Conversely, if you wait, you will have firmly established that this team needs MAJOR moves - and also, not to be overlooked, that's about the time you'll have more willing trading partners. Most GMs want to give their own teams about a quarter of the season before they feel that they have a good read on who they are and what they need - that's when you'll be able to generate a lot more interest and get much more competitive bids. (And, if you're doing a true rebuild, you then move a whole lot more pieces at the deadline when prices are always at their highest.)
NYR Viper
Registered User
it is early, but it quickly becomes 'not so early' if they lose the next couple of games. They lost to (2) of the worst teams in the NHL. They play Detroit and the Montreal next. I don't see it getting any better.
I understand not wanting to make moves too quickly but they are already scrambling. Miller, Mashinter, Fast, Kreider, Powe and Asham have all played only a few games or less each. That's a lot of rotation to start the season which to me shows how aggressive they would be to get this ship righted.
