Player Discussion Alain Vigneault Part VI

[RangerBoy]

No one will disagree with this. But he remains an issue and an easy fix imo. Unless you want to tank.

Is firing AV going to fix everything else?

Tell me. How do the Rangers fix everything during the season?

New coach. The same issues remain.

I read "salvage" the season on this board.

WTF does that mean?

 

[Crease]

Is firing AV going to fix everything else?

Of course not. Is that good reason, though, not to fire him? Should they have hung on to Girardi too?

 

[Broadway Brad]

Is firing AV going to fix everything else?

Tell me. How do the Rangers fix everything during the season?

New coach. The same issues remain.

I read "salvage" the season on this board.

WTF does that mean?

Getting rid of AV would hopefully mean the end of his trash defensive system and hopefully the end of the horrific player deployment that we've seen for years.

 

[TheDirtyH]

Is firing AV going to fix everything else?

Tell me. How do the Rangers fix everything during the season?

New coach. The same issues remain.

I read "salvage" the season on this board.

WTF does that mean?

Probably in reference to the fact that the season has 77 games left to it.

Or do you see the Avs and Devils winning their respective division by the end?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Not going to take part in the arguments here, but I know the phrase "[insert player(s)] did it in spite of AV" will be a prime answer here.

I notice that when something negative happens with the team, it's because of AV, but when a positive happens, it's not because of AV but solely because of the player(s).

That pisses me off so much, about any coach. Wins are credited to the players, losses are the fault of the coach.

My biggest issue is with people saying AV doesn't like young players and ruins their development.

Well, since AV joined the Rangers in 2013, a bunch of players have developed into NHL-ers.

Kreider, Zuccarello (Yes, those two weren't guaranteed starters under Torts), Miller, Fast, Skjei, Vesey, Hayes, Buchnevich... That's a whole lotta players who developed under AV.

And we can also include Brassard who was a 3rd line player when he joined us and developed into a borderline 1st line center under AV.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

Let’s whack AV and be done with it.

 

[Chaels Arms]

If AV gets fired the hiring of Lindy Ruff during the offseason is going to be the bane of our existence.

I have no doubt that the Rangers will do the typical lazy NHL move and just appoint "experienced" bench boss Lindy Ruff as the new head coach. If Ruff wasn't here they may have been forced to do an actual coaching search and maybe bring in some new blood or, even better, Darryl Sutter.

There's no salary cap for coaching. Give Sutter Babcock money and a private jet to take him back to Alberta whenever he gets homesick.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

That pisses me off so much, about any coach. Wins are credited to the players, losses are the fault of the coach.

My biggest issue is with people saying AV doesn't like young players and ruins their development.

Well, since AV joined the Rangers in 2013, a bunch of players have developed into NHL-ers.

Kreider, Zuccarello (Yes, those two weren't guaranteed starters under Torts), Miller, Fast, Skjei, Vesey, Hayes, Buchnevich... That's a whole lotta players who developed under AV.

And we can also include Brassard who was a 3rd line player when he joined us and developed into a borderline 1st line center under AV.

I’d hesitate before bragging about developing hayes or vesey.. from what I’ve seen they’re growth has been minimal if positive at all

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Please make the bad man go away

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

The problem I see with AV is he’s not good at changing anything..
Lines
Pairs
Systems
Attitudes

Teams are reflections of their coaches.
It’s not surprising the soft country club mentality has taken over. The turtling after scoring 1 goal. The lack of forecheck and cycle game. It’s clear the mental state never changes on this team for better or worse. Never too happy never too angry never too urgent.. and that’s the biggest problem with our current team, no urgency. Everyone wants the sexy play not throw it on net and slam the puck in. Never sprint in on the forecheck and lay out a defender.

 

[BBKers]

AV had his shot. He made a few runs. Had management trade away lots of futures for win now pieces. Tripped on the finish line. His best before date is over. Nobody likes sour milk. Team has given up on him. Or whatever. Time to move on

 

[Mac n Gs]

I’ve posted long diatribes about AV’s coaching style in two different threads now, but you’re never going to win in this league today without structure and pressure. Zone pressure systems are the way to go, and it helps prevent other teams from gaining numbers on you down low. Having people in position to relieve pressure with outlets helps you get out of the defensive zone. Our other issue is overcommitting on the forecheck, which causes us to always be chasing through the neutral zone. If you’re always being outnumbered, how do you expect to be successful in this league?

 

[GregSirico]

Firing AV won't solve every problem. It might solve a few, might shake up the players who are his favorites, or complacent and lazy, but a culture change is needed. It starts with moving on from AV and we build from there.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Firing AV won't solve every problem. It might solve a few, might shake up the players who are his favorites, or complacent and lazy, but a culture change is needed. It starts with moving on from AV and we build from there.

And what if the Rangers still suck with a new coach? What is the excuse going to be then?

 

[PlamsUnlimited]

He said it starts with that then moving on. Where did it say it starts and ends with AV being relieved of the position? You can't possibly make that inference from that. We already know some players suck/underperform/shouldn't be there. That's part of the problem, but the other part is trying to run systems that aren't working clearly and sitting guys who should be playing.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

And what if the Rangers still suck with a new coach? What is the excuse going to be then?

There aren't many people who think that firing the coach is going to make this team take a 180 degree turn. The disaster we've seen thus far isn't entirely on AV, though I would pin most of it on him.

Guys have gotten older, they've traded away some really good players and have tried to give bigger roles to guys who may not be able to handle them, thats all true. However, the guy leading the group is a blithering idiot who has no idea how to adjust to his roster (this has been true for years) and is more interested in leaning on shitty veterans rather than playing his best players, all inside a f***ing stupid ass system.

Give me a structured system led by a man who understands what accountability is over the asshat we have now.

 

[Edge]

I have a sinking feeling that this could be it for AV.

With that said, I'm not sure his removal is going to be the panacea that some think.

 

[Jauffre]

He's consistently showed an inability to adjust in-game. Consistently showed that he prefers vets playing poorly > youngsters who're actually capable. I think it's time, do it sooner rather than later. It won't fix everything, but it's a start. He literally cost us a Conference final berth last season. And now he's gotten the team off to the worst start since Raiders of the Lost Ark was in theaters. Adios.

 

[Machinehead]

New coach. The same issues remain.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

I have a sinking feeling that this could be it for AV.

With that said, I'm not sure his removal is going to be the panacea that some think.

I don't think most people see his firing as the "panacea" (pfft, nerd), I just think people are sick of Vigneault and his "quirks", if you could call them that. Every coach, even the greatest, have a shelf life. I'd say it's pretty clear that Vigneault's has expired, with the fans and IMO the players as well.

Not to mention that, with the way this season has started, firing the coach is the easiest way to both send a message and potentially create a spark. I don't expect it to happen just yet, but we've got a tough stretch coming up, and unless we miraculously win at least two of these games, I'd be shocked if nothing happened. You don't start 1-8 in NY when you have playoff aspirations and have everything be sunshine and rainbows.

 

[Inferno]

I have a sinking feeling that this could be it for AV.

With that said, I'm not sure his removal is going to be the panacea that some think.

i dont think anyone really believes that this is the be all end all...i think firing AV is the first step.

Do i think this is a cup contender as is? No. Do I think AV does a lot more harm than good? Yes.

Its just like Tanner Glass..nobody was saying that getting rid of him solves all the Rangers problems...we simply said that its a step...just because 1 single step doesnt get you to your destination, that doens't mean you don't have to take it.

 

[Ail]

And what if the Rangers still suck with a new coach? What is the excuse going to be then?

That coach sucks, fire him too until we find one who wins! Duh!

 

[True Blue]

I have a sinking feeling that this could be it for AV.

With that said, I'm not sure his removal is going to be the panacea that some think.

Unless this goes completely south, I think he survives this. He JUST got his extension.

Panacea? Probably not. The best that I would hope for is someone who will put the players into the best position for success

 

[EpicDing]

It's less that firing AV is going to fix everything (it won't) and more that firing AV shows me that the FO recognizes this team has issues and is trying to solve them, and I would fire a coach long before trading a good player to "shake it up."

 

[Gardner McKay]

If AV gets fired the hiring of Lindy Ruff during the offseason is going to be the bane of our existence.

I have no doubt that the Rangers will do the typical lazy NHL move and just appoint "experienced" bench boss Lindy Ruff as the new head coach. If Ruff wasn't here they may have been forced to do an actual coaching search and maybe bring in some new blood or, even better, Darryl Sutter.

There's no salary cap for coaching. Give Sutter Babcock money and a private jet to take him back to Alberta whenever he gets homesick.

So you're saying that appointing Lindy Ruff would be the lazy move to make and then in the next breath, advocate for Sutter. K.