BattleBorn
50% to winning as many division titles as Toronto
For sure, and I don't doubt that Seattle NHL has interest in Idaho. I'm just wondering when it happens.
I'd also not make definitive statements against SLC.
AHL Affiliate?
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I'd also not make definitive statements against SLC.
Does the Utah Jazz want a AHL team there... Last time Utah had a hockey team of some sort. It didn't go well and the team left.
BattleBorn
50% to winning as many division titles as Toronto
The Utah Jazz don't matter since the team would play in West Valley City. Utah has also had a hockey team for decades, and was one of the strongest west coast IHL teams prior to the IHL folding. So strong in fact that the Grizzlies were one of only five IHL teams that got the transfer to the AHL. The were just so isolated and added so much to the travel costs of the other AHL teams that it couldn't survive (a reason the AHL requires team ownership of AHL Pacific teams to counteract travel costs) and wasn't sustainable. They got an ECHL team replacement that has done well attendance-wise since.
The fact that Seattle isn't considering SLC makes me think that VGK or Vancouver has eyes on them for eventual AHL placement or makes me think there's something else going on that I'm not aware of. Utah had the 5th highest attendance in the ECHL last season, drawing 1,000+ more attendees per game than Idaho. (5,666 per game vs 4,548)
It's also a lot easier to get to Seattle (or any other NHL city) from SLC with Delta's SeaTac mini-hub and SLC actual hub than Boise, which is a commuter/regional jet airport.
Seattle might make it two in Idaho.Boise in the AHL and Idaho Falls in the ECHL.
This venue is on track to start construction in 2020
IFAD | Idaho Falls Auditorium District
The Idaho Falls has really started to grow population wise.
This venue is on track to start construction in 2020
IFAD | Idaho Falls Auditorium District
The Idaho Falls has really started to grow population wise.
PCSPounder
Stadium Groupie
It is a pipe dream to expect the AHL West to be a temporary situation.
Whether you want to call that the natural evolution of hockey, or "change happens," here it is.
YUP, HAD IT not been 2014-15, it would've happened by this offseason or even 2019-20
PCSPounder
Stadium Groupie
Future of minor league hockey & the echl
It really rather bugs me when one of my "reaches" ends up gaining traction.
BattleBorn
50% to winning as many division titles as Toronto
I wouldn't say it's temporary, quite the opposite. It's set up to be permanent by requiring an ownership structure that can handle additional travel costs since team profitability isn't the main determining factor in location selection. Travel costs obviously come into play when you look at the schedule and see the Pacific not playing the northeast/traditional market teams.
With more and more NhL teams wanting their A teams closer it was natural to see migration out west. Many of the central teams have them close by. Minn in Iowa, Col in Col, Dal in Austin, Chi in Rockford, Win in Win, STL in SA, Nas in Mil.
Just a matter of whether these teams can absorb the extra travel costs. If the NHL team is willing to subsidize that for more control of their prospects that extra cost might be worth it if you are developing you draft picks into nhlers.
BattleBorn
50% to winning as many division titles as Toronto
The more I think about it after seeing Mayor Durkan's hockey stick in her office, the more I think that OVG is pursuing the Idaho Steelheads as an ECHL team to purchase their name and branding with the goal of eventually moving them to the AHL while also acquiring the name and intellectual property.
Just a thought. Mostly based on the fact that I can't see a Seattle owned AHL team icing a complete team right off the bat and think they'll loan out draft picks to an AHL team and develop the rest from the juniors.
Just a thought. Mostly based on the fact that I can't see a Seattle owned AHL team icing a complete team right off the bat and think they'll loan out draft picks to an AHL team and develop the rest from the juniors.
PCSPounder
Stadium Groupie
That seems to make sense as an action and a likelihood.
I stand by a stance that says they'll lose money on this proposition. That has nothing to do with travel and everything to do with how you market to Boise. A smart AHL team is looking to develop, generally at the expense of winning. Boise wants a winner, and while there's more of a relation to Seattle than once existed, there's kind of a night and day between markets.
Nordiques1979
Registered User
PCSPounder
Stadium Groupie
Me and my wife went to Vancouver Friday for Timbers @ Whitecaps. One of the radio features we heard while driving up was the 10th anniversary "remembrance" of Abbotsford's arena. Part of the story mentions how the city is currently losing half a million per year... contrasted against how they were losing $1 million per year when the Heat were there.
As much as I want to see the Canucks get to Abbotsford, I can kind of see why Abbotsford might not make that easy.
As much as I want to see the Canucks get to Abbotsford, I can kind of see why Abbotsford might not make that easy.
Barclay Donaldson
Registered User
From the articles that have come out, it seems like while that's an issue, there's other, bigger factors at play.
Utica is a short to medium-length bus trip from every single conference partner except Charlotte. There's obvious prospect development benefits to that, more time on the ice, in the gym, sleeping in your own bed. Every away game for Abbotsford would be a long road trip, they lose close to half of their calendar traveling. The Canucks management and ownership prefer Utica and value how the city treats their prospects over an easier call-up. Here's some links if you're interested: Future of Canucks' affiliation with Utica Comets still under consideration and Ed Willes: Canucks love what they have in Utica
PCSPounder
Stadium Groupie
I'm not answering the question of why the Heat left.
I'm answering the question of why Abbotsford hasn't been a player for any other team... in any league.
Plus this might be an indication of why Seattle eventually pursues the Steelheads. It seems to be getting harder to ice a team in a new market, or even a burned one. (It's taking a lot of restraint on my part to not add the word "exponentially" in front of the word "harder," even if the evidence isn't all in yet.)
Barclay Donaldson
Registered User
For that, the travel would be horrible and it's in the middle of Canucksland. The amount of travel an Abbotsford team would face is insane. Closest flight would be almost 5 hours to non-division Manitoba Moose. We've gone over how that's a bad thing for prospect development. In addition, the area has been shown to be very hardcore Canucks fans and putting an AHL team for any team other than Canucks wouldn't be a smart move. Now, there's some obvious exceptions like the Wolves with Chicago, which works very well since Chicago has a metro population just short of 10 million. But putting an AHL affiliate of a team like Florida in Laval instead of a Canadiens affiliate would have the same results as the Abbotsford Heat, and Metro Montreal is almost twice the size of Vancouver.
that was more on the combination of the city, and Calgary when the Heat were bounced from Omaha, then QC.... SIMPLY Vancouver didn't pursue a franchise until St. Louis gave them an out from Rosemont, and "gifted them" the current Comets, the reason why the Blues backtracked off being an owner/affiliate, could've been financial
Tod Leiweke was on KJR softy yesterday for the tuesdays segment. He said the AHL team will begin playing the same year as the NHL team.
PCSPounder
Stadium Groupie
I'd like for a journalist to analyze the Palm Springs deal.
The word I'm thinking of using is vaporware.
The word I'm thinking of using is vaporware.
The issue i see with Palm springs is how soon can they get the arena built and open before the 21-22 AHL season. While its closer to the other AHL teams, it has its own issues. Idaho already has an arena ready to go for that AHL team via ECHL Idaho Steelheads being promoteding to AHL.
LadyStanley
Registered User
VGK construction of their $31m practice facility took ~11 months (Broke ground October 2016; with grand opening September 2017). If you have shovel ready plan, with the proper incentive ($$), such a facility could be built in a calendar year. Now an arena might take a bit more time and/or $$
I believe the PS location might have issues with NIMBY and EIS (as would any California locale).
I believe the PS location might have issues with NIMBY and EIS (as would any California locale).
Looks like there is plans for a 12k arena in plams desert CA (next door to palm springs) that's going through environmental review no idea if that will be built with a ice rink in mind or not
Plan for 12,000-seat indoor stadium and sports complex in Thousand Palms in place
If the Canucks wont be moving their AHL to the NW then Palm Springs makes the most sense to be with the other California teams. Even if Canucks move to Abbotsford or similar, Boise is still a flight away from anywhere. Yes Boise is already established and 'in-territory' but far far enough from all other teams.
