Atomos2
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This was a cute unprompted shot at Leaf fans for no reason. Care to explain why you’re salty? It’s not like Matthews has done anything to keep him out of this conversation.
Agree or Disagree: Kovalchuk, Ovechkin, Stamkos, Draisaitl, and Matthews are the 5 best goal scorers of the 21st century
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Best or greatest?
If it's best:
1. Ovechkin
2. Matthews
3. Stamkos
4. Kovalchuk
I feel really good about the top 4. #5 I have no idea, any of Draisaitl, Crosby, McDavid, Iginila (is it players who debuted past 2000 only?) could be in contention.
If it's greatest instead of best - I still have Ovechkin + Matthews as the clear top 2. Beyond that, it's a bit harder. Top 4 might still say the same.
If it's best:
1. Ovechkin
2. Matthews
3. Stamkos
4. Kovalchuk
I feel really good about the top 4. #5 I have no idea, any of Draisaitl, Crosby, McDavid, Iginila (is it players who debuted past 2000 only?) could be in contention.
If it's greatest instead of best - I still have Ovechkin + Matthews as the clear top 2. Beyond that, it's a bit harder. Top 4 might still say the same.
Nathaniel Skywalker
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Snuggs
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Disagree. Idk how this is measured and it's super subjective but some names like Datsyuk/Jagr aren't being considered and should be. Idk if they got the Goals per game rate or whatever to match those guys but it's tough to say either isn't a great goal scorer. Datsyuk specifically, has some real highlights. Jagr might have just played way too long screwing the numbers and idk Danny Heatly/Hossa were great. Idk.
Also, goalie pads, etc, got smaller to promote scoring.
Lots of names I'm also not going to disagree with like Matthews, Ovie, etc.
Also, goalie pads, etc, got smaller to promote scoring.
Lots of names I'm also not going to disagree with like Matthews, Ovie, etc.
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Even if you hack off Iggy's seasons prior to 00-01, he still has 91 more goals in his career lmao.
Nevermind that I said Include Iggy until some of these guys have finished their careers... Which kinda indicates Kovalchuk, who has been out of the NHL for 5 years now, isn't who I was challenging in the first place.
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Iggy has 2 40 goal seasons and 2 50 goal seasons in his career.
Kovalchuk had a span of 7 straight 40 goal seasons with 2 50 goal seasons in aswell,
If it wasn't for ovechkin , kovalchuk would've been arguably the best goalscorer of the 2000's
Ovy, Stamkos, or Matthew's don't have 7 straight 40 goal seasons...
If it wasn't for Kovalchuk running to the KHL he'd probably have a lot more of a legacy than he does, but he did.
And again, weird of you to pick out Kovalchuk as the name to challenge, considering I said I'd take Iggy over some of these guys until they play out their careers.
... You picked the one guy whose career is finished lmao.
I just compared them cause there both in their primes together give or take,
And I see kovalchuk as more of a pure goal scorer, complete player I take iggy all day,
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To me this answers who is the best goalscorer right now or over the past 7 years between the two. But for the 21st century thusfar? McDavid deserves credit for not being a slow starter in the league. Its not his fault Draisaitl took a few years and that he didnt right? Its just a notch in McDavid's column.
To me I just don’t see the point in putting a lot of stock in games where players weren’t in their primes on a discussion of “best”. The second set of 7 years in question were the best 7 for each of them, and in McDavid’s other years, he’s averaged 31 goals per 82. Good, but not particularly relevant in a best goal scorer comparison.
The difference in career GPG numbers is almost entirely due to Draisaitl being out of his depth in the NHL as a rookie, before McDavid even entered the league. Just taking out Draisaitl’s rookie year and comparing them in the seasons McDavid’s been in the league puts them on equal footing with Draisaitl slightly ahead (380 total goals and 42.6 Goals per 82 for Drai, 355 total goals and 42.3 goals per 82 for McDavid). So the argument for McDavid based on career numbers becomes entirely about an extra season Draisaitl has where he was poor rather than anything McDavid did.
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filinski77
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My list of tiers based off of top-10 goal finishes.
Don't like using goal/gp because:
a) It props up guys who are young (and haven't had the age curve that lowers career g/gp)
b) Does not consider the differences in scoring environment (can be up to 10-15% difference from the last 8 or so years)
Don't like career goals because:
a) Props up career compilers (Marleau)
My cutoff was FOUR top-10 finishes minimum. If you haven't been able to finish top-10 in goals more than 3 times, you do not belong in a top goal scorers list that covers 25 years.
Some guys that I omitted that I saw listed here include: Kaprizov (5/8/8), Malkin (2/4/4), and Marleau (4/6).
Don't like using goal/gp because:
a) It props up guys who are young (and haven't had the age curve that lowers career g/gp)
b) Does not consider the differences in scoring environment (can be up to 10-15% difference from the last 8 or so years)
Don't like career goals because:
a) Props up career compilers (Marleau)
My cutoff was FOUR top-10 finishes minimum. If you haven't been able to finish top-10 in goals more than 3 times, you do not belong in a top goal scorers list that covers 25 years.
Some guys that I omitted that I saw listed here include: Kaprizov (5/8/8), Malkin (2/4/4), and Marleau (4/6).
| 1a | Ovechkin | 1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/3/3/4/4/5/9 |
| 2a | Stamkos | 1/1/2/2/2/4/7/9 |
| 2b | Matthews | 1/1/1/2/3 |
| 2c | Kovalchuk | 1/2/3/4/6/6/7/8 |
| 3a | Iginla | 1/1/3/3 |
| 3b | Draisaitl | 2/2/4/4/4 (+ currently 1st this season) |
| 3b | McDavid | 1/2/6/6/7/10 |
| 3c | Heatley | 2/5/6/8/8/9 |
| 3c | Crosby | 1/1/7/7 |
| 3d | Pastrnak | 1/2/7/10 (+ currently 10th this season) |
| 3d | Perry | 1/2/6/9/10 |
| 3d | Nash | 1/3/5/10 |
| 4a | Kane | 2/5/5/10 |
| 4a | Tavares | 3/3/4/10 |
| 4a | Kucherov | 2/6/9/10 |
| 4b | Hossa | 4/5/5/6 |
| 4b | Mackinnon | 4/6/9/9/9 |
| 4b | Seguin | 5/5/7/10 |
Video Nasty
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Ovechkin, Stamkos, Matthews top the list for me quite easily.
Kovalchuk is probably next and will fall behind Draisaitl if he wins this season’s Rocket.
McDavid is the first runner up and will likely knock Kovalchuk out of the list with a few more higher finishes.
Kovalchuk is probably next and will fall behind Draisaitl if he wins this season’s Rocket.
McDavid is the first runner up and will likely knock Kovalchuk out of the list with a few more higher finishes.
Connor McConnor
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McDavid can create more goals than Drai but he doesn't have one dominant goalscoring trait that can consistently give him 50+ every year like Drai does with his shot. Drai's one timer is as close to a guarantee as almost anybody outside of Ovi, AM and prime Stamkos. I'd give Drai the slight edge as a goalscorer over McDavid.
Ovy had Backstrom,
Stamkos had Kuch,
Matthews has Marner,
Leon has mcdavid
Kovalchuk had Antropov, Savard, and Todd White lollll
Kovalchuk deserves more credit imo.
Stamkos had Kuch,
Matthews has Marner,
Leon has mcdavid
Kovalchuk had Antropov, Savard, and Todd White lollll
Kovalchuk deserves more credit imo.
Marc Savard was a better playmaker than Marner at his peak. At the very least his assist totals were higher playing on a worse team, with a worse goal scorer and in a lower scoring era. Quite simply Kovalchuk is not as good a goal scorer as Matthews or Ovechkin, and I actually tend to think he is underrated by his actual totals and could’ve done better in certain situations as well. The other ones you could argue he is as good or better than in the case of Draisaitl.
Fatass
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Imo McDavid gets the Gretzky treatment for goalscoring. Gretzky scored 90+ goals one year, and McDavid had 60+, but some fans struggle seeing both guys’ greatness as goal-scorers because of their superior play making skills.
Hippasus
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I had it like this!..
Ovechkin
Matthews
McDavid
Stamkos
Kovalchuk
with Pastrnak and Draisaitl looking in
Ovechkin
Matthews
McDavid
Stamkos
Kovalchuk
with Pastrnak and Draisaitl looking in
Kovalchuk only played 2 seasons with savard, and marner is on pace for 85 assists this year besting savard assists total in a season by 10.
Not saying Kovalchuk is better then Matthew's or Ovy, just saying his stats are more impressive considering who he played with, opposed to all the HOFers everyone else played with.
Prime Kovalchuk is cash money for 40 plus playing with scrubs, imagine he has a top caliber center for a prolonged portion of his career.
Why does it feel like you're twisting the statistics in a way that makes them favor Draisaitl as much as possible for this comparison?
Do you, perchance, also think we should remove Ovechkin's rookie season and make it not count, because he was too good during it? And Kovalchuk's?
So we should cut 75% of Ovechkin's career? Or should we consider his prime to be 20 years while the prime of another player is 5 years?
Are you serious?
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Yeah and he scored 52 goals with peak Savard, also at his peak, in a lower scoring era than today. Marner is on pace, but keep in mind this is with a few players topping 100 assists now. What Savard posted back then was the best assist total post lockout besides Crosby and Thornton until the Sedin’s has their peak seasons. All I’m saying really is that he is not as good a goal scorer as Matthews, and also not as good as peak Stamkos, but he’s the best after that I believe.
Are you? There’s a clear difference between focusing on two players’ best years and removing a players’ best years, and McDavid’s accomplishments outside of the years I used are minimal. Goal scoring primes are usually short and being among the best is a lot more important in evaluating players than their lesser years. Otherwise players like Bure and Bossy wouldn’t be rated as highly as they are. If Bure finished his career with a bunch of years as a 20 goal scorer tacked on instead of retiring early, would he be any worse of a goal scorer? Of course not. Same with Draisaitl’s start to his career.
Ovechkin is a rare player who has a long goalscoring prime, which makes your comparison to him here ridiculous. Draisaitl’s literally outscored and outpaced McDavid in the years McDavid’s been in the league, so it’s not in any way like comparing 20 years of Ovechkin to 5 years of another player. Oh no, I removed 203 games of 31 goal pace from McDavid’s career. Definitely fudging those numbers!
Career numbers suggest McDavid is better solely due to games Draisaitl played as a rookie when McDavid wasn’t even in the league, so arguing for McDavid based on career GPG isn’t even based on something McDavid did. Now that’s twisting the numbers.
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I do think he’s a bit better playmaker but he also only played with Kovalchuk for 3 seasons and 2 of those were under 60 games.
