Podcast (Audio) After the Whistle

[Jacob582]

What did he say that was the big takeaway?

He praised Darcy Regier for his talent in knowing how to build a team. Noted his short coming was he was slow to pull the trigger.

Quinn challenged Darcy to make a list of players to go after to address the lack of leadership. Drury was second on the list.

He said Hasek didn't do to much to Jim Kelley.

He said he's not worried about the Sabres moving because Pegula is involved with deep pockets. Otherwise he's worried because the economics in Buffalo doesn't look good.

He said the team is still paying for the awful job that Murray did.

 

[Jacob582]

What did he say that was the big takeaway?

He also regretted choosing to keep Kotalik over JP Dumont.

 

[Ace]

“He said the team is still paying for the awful job that Murray did.”

I’d ask if he was still on the payroll but with this ownership that isn’t possible.

Tim Murray was fired EIGHT YEARS ago.

When you’re still missing the playoffs 8 years, 8 off-seasons, later…you are paying for someone else doing an awful job. In ownership.

 

[Tatanka]

“He said the team is still paying for the awful job that Murray did.”

I’d ask if he was still on the payroll but with this ownership that isn’t possible.

Tim Murray was fired EIGHT YEARS ago.

When you’re still missing the playoffs 8 years, 8 off-seasons, later…you are paying for someone else doing an awful job. In ownership.

I thought his dump on Murray was a bit much. Those 3 character problems have been prominent contributors on good teams and winning Cups since they left here. It doesn’t matter how much Terry loves hockey or how deep his pockets are if he doesn’t get the f@$k out of the way. The team will suck and if they move the vast majority not on this board won’t care.

 

[Der Jaeger]

“He said the team is still paying for the awful job that Murray did.”

I’d ask if he was still on the payroll but with this ownership that isn’t possible.

Tim Murray was fired EIGHT YEARS ago.

When you’re still missing the playoffs 8 years, 8 off-seasons, later…you are paying for someone else doing an awful job. In ownership.

Fair point but Quinn’s point about tanking still holds. When you throw out the whole organization, you throw the culture with it.

I was a huge fan of the tank in 2014. Now, looking back, it was a bad idea. They should’ve kept Miller, Roy, Pominville, maybe Vanek and Stafford, and tried to add whatever kids they draft to that group. It wouldn’t have been Eichel and Reinhart. Buffalo was finishing around 8-12 with that group. So maybe instead of Reinhart, you get Nylander or Ehlers. Instead of Eichel you get Werenski, Meier, or Rantanen.

Those kids with the older group who had played in ECFs and the playoff, might have worked.

Quinn said it himself, the whole dug by Murray was huge. It wasn’t a talent hole, it’s a culture hole.

 

[Ace]

Fair point but Quinn’s point about tanking still holds. When you throw out the whole organization, you throw the culture with it.

I was a huge fan of the tank in 2014. Now, looking back, it was a bad idea. They should’ve kept Miller, Roy, Pominville, maybe Vanek and Stafford, and tried to add whatever kids they draft to that group. It wouldn’t have been Eichel and Reinhart. Buffalo was finishing around 8-12 with that group. So maybe instead of Reinhart, you get Nylander or Ehlers. Instead of Eichel you get Werenski, Meier, or Rantanen.

Those kids with the older group who had played in ECFs and the playoff, might have worked.

Quinn said it himself, the whole dug by Murray was huge. It wasn’t a talent hole, it’s a culture hole.

Miller wasn’t re-signing.

They weren’t making the playoffs with that core of all important and aging culture. None of them accomplished jack shit after leaving either.

If that culture was so strong…why was Miller on his way out while missing the playoffs three years in a row and not getting out of round one in SEVEN

It’s revisionist history bullshit.

The culture walked out the door July 1 2007.

They were the walking dead of not good enough afterwards with the core they had. And they were aging out.

They didn’t wake up one day and decide to blow it up…and it wasn’t even Murray who started it. It was Darcy. Because they weren’t good enough and he knew it.

 

[Chainshot]

Did Quinn talk about how he hated Briere for the arbitration win, how he wouldn’t allow Regier to go above three years and how much he wanted “his guy” Drury who he too credit for “finding” by his dinner request of Neil Smith to be the captain they retained? Or how his treatment of Briere was part of why Drury didn’t want to stay - and the Quinn mess up of the mid-season contract negotiations with Drury pushed him the rest of the way out?

Was he on the show with a “companion” who was/is not his wife.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Miller wasn’t re-signing.

They weren’t making the playoffs with that core of all important and aging culture. None of them accomplished jack shit after leaving either.

If that culture was so strong…why was Miller on his way out while missing the playoffs three years in a row and not getting out of round one in SEVEN

It’s revisionist history bullshit.

The culture walked out the door July 1 2007.

They were the walking dead of not good enough afterwards with the core they had. And they were aging out.

They didn’t wake up one day and decide to blow it up…and it wasn’t even Murray who started it. It was Darcy. Because they weren’t good enough and he knew it.

I’ll go paragraph by paragraph.

You discount the culture. And going somewhere else and doing something is a meaningless point which doesn’t mean anything to the main idea of keeping players around to keep a culture going.

The Sabres went to the playoffs in 2010 and won the division in 2011. They missed in 2012 and 2013. Regier made the tank choice. It was a bad move.

The decision to tank was a poor one. We all supported it. We were all wrong. The one guy who didn’t support the tank? Pat LaFontaine.

 

[Fezzy126]

He said the team is still paying for the awful job that Murray did.

IMHO, there isn't a single more damaging thing to the path of this organization than Golisano's cheapening out on everything, including player contracts in an era when players were willing to take LESS to stay here, and the complete gutting of the scouting department. Who was team president during that era... oh yeah...

I'm sorry, but f*** that guy.

 

[Jacob582]

IMHO, there isn't a single more damaging thing to the path of this organization than Golisano's cheapening out on everything, including player contracts in an era when players were willing to take LESS to stay here, and the complete gutting of the scouting department. Who was team president during that era... oh yeah...

I'm sorry, but f*** that guy.

Golisano was willing to pay a team president. And Quinn/Regier have history of winning.

Pegula?

Tim Murray was far worse than anything Golisano did.

 

[Jacob582]

Quinn felt the NYR tampered with Drury during negotiations.

He also said something happened towards the beginning of the season that interfered with negotiations, but he wasn't going to tell what it was.

 

[Tatanka]

Fair point but Quinn’s point about tanking still holds. When you throw out the whole organization, you throw the culture with it.

I was a huge fan of the tank in 2014. Now, looking back, it was a bad idea. They should’ve kept Miller, Roy, Pominville, maybe Vanek and Stafford, and tried to add whatever kids they draft to that group. It wouldn’t have been Eichel and Reinhart. Buffalo was finishing around 8-12 with that group. So maybe instead of Reinhart, you get Nylander or Ehlers. Instead of Eichel you get Werenski, Meier, or Rantanen.

Those kids with the older group who had played in ECFs and the playoff, might have worked.

Quinn said it himself, the whole dug by Murray was huge. It wasn’t a talent hole, it’s a culture hole.

And that was bullshit. The culture hole was created when Adams gutted the hockey department during covid. Bare bones. No organizational history left. New inexperienced decision makers and not jettisoning the cancer that was Kruger. Murray had his faults but he was still operating within the walls. It wasn’t stripped to the studs until economics came into play.

Everyone wants tougher players. What they need are those who hate to lose. Those players are seldom choir boys. It takes strong leadership at the very top to be able to operate in that environment. We have not had that since Terry took over. I agree that the Sabres are history if Terry throws in the towel, but what is the actual loss? I hope it turns around but it seems pretty clear the viability of pro sports in such a small market is not sustainable. The Bills survive on the tv contract, without it there is little reason to believe they can sustain in WNY.

 

[truthbluth]

Chain nailed it. Quinn was a supreme f***up. Drury did them dirty, but Quinn dug the hole.

And on the Murray bullshit. His problem was his faith in Risto. I’ve gone over stats from the Bylsma years. Those teams were good, but Risto was playing 25 minutes a night of dogshit hockey. This may be over stating it but, they weren’t that far out of the playoffs, and that one decision may have been the single biggest factor in that. It wasn’t culture, it was being not good enough on the back end. Edit: Oh I forgot, the corpse of a Josh Gorges getting 20 minutes/gm + was freaking unbelievable too.

 

[Tatanka]

Chain nailed it. Quinn was a supreme f***up. Drury did them dirty, but Quinn dug the hole.

And on the Murray bullshit. His problem was his faith in Risto. I’ve gone over stats from the Bylsma years. Those teams were good, but Risto was playing 25 minutes a night of dogshit hockey. This may be over stating it but, they weren’t that far out of the playoffs, and that one decision may have been the single biggest factor in that. It wasn’t culture, it was being not good enough on the back end.

From people I trust, Pegs was infatuated with Risto. There were attempts to move him that were deemed not enough return. Wasn’t in the room but one source was with another organization that was interested in acquiring him and a deal was nixed at the last minute.

 

[Fezzy126]

Golisano was willing to pay a team president. And Quinn/Regier have history of winning.

Pegula?

Tim Murray was far worse than anything Golisano did.

Quinn/Regier were handed a good team that the Muckler regime built, completely dismantled it and ran it into the ground, then using the previous regime's scouting staff built a small skilled team that had no chance of competing but lucked into the NHL's crackdown on obstruction, making their team build really good for the era. Then while being gifted that amazing opportunity, they completely dismantled the scouting department, got into repeated contract wars with players, continually chose the wrong players to keep over which ones to move on from when making tough core decisions, and dismantled that team and ran it into the ground.

We could miss the playoffs for 100 years, nothing has burned a hole deeper into my psyche than the bullshit of the Golisano/Quinn regime and the revisionist history around their tenure here. Golisano simultaneously rescued the team from being moved while destroying the foundation of a proud franchise.

 

[Chainshot]

Golisano was willing to pay a team president. And Quinn/Regier have history of winning.

Pegula?

Tim Murray was far worse than anything Golisano did.

The need for the rebuild that Regier started was the slash and burn to the scouting department and bleed of all the hockey minds out of the front office. Their draft history in that era was the reason they were missing talent as the 2010's ramped up and they sold for draft picks. Murray threw food at a food fight. LQ and BTom had already salted fields.

 

[Der Jaeger]

And that was bullshit. The culture hole was created when Adams gutted the hockey department during covid. Bare bones. No organizational history left. New inexperienced decision makers and not jettisoning the cancer that was Kruger. Murray had his faults but he was still operating within the walls. It wasn’t stripped to the studs until economics came into play.

Everyone wants tougher players. What they need are those who hate to lose. Those players are seldom choir boys. It takes strong leadership at the very top to be able to operate in that environment. We have not had that since Terry took over. I agree that the Sabres are history if Terry throws in the towel, but what is the actual loss? I hope it turns around but it seems pretty clear the viability of pro sports in such a small market is not sustainable. The Bills survive on the tv contract, without it there is little reason to believe they can sustain in WNY.

Your points about Adams are fair. I’m not an Adams defender. Lack of attacking Adams does not equal Adams defender. That gets confused on these boards. A lot.

Murray blew a hole in the team. And he tried to import leadership in Gionta and others. But that was offset by adding Kane, Bogosian, and Lehner. Those are the bad character guys Quinn mentioned, I’d bet.

There was no Pominville and crew to bring Eichel and Reinhart in correctly. Anything Gionta and crew did got countered. There’s plenty of folks here who have their own insider info. There’s a lot to it. Murray may have been between the walls but he dug a 200 foot deep basement.

I’ve led non-choir boys my whole life. You don’t take on guys like Kane, Bogosian, and Lehner if you want to get far in anything.

 

[May Day 10]

The rot and nepotism goes all the way back to rigas. We can point to many crimes against hockey committed by any phase of these regimes.

They so desperately need someone with credentials to come in and build a hockey program properly.

John Muckler was the last serious hire the sabres have made.

 

[GrierIsGod123]

From people I trust, Pegs was infatuated with Risto. There were attempts to move him that were deemed not enough return. Wasn’t in the room but one source was with another organization that was interested in acquiring him and a deal was nixed at the last minute.

It's shit like this that makes you realize what a terrible NHL owner Pegula is. If true, that really really pisses me off. What's the point of having analytics folks if Pegula is running the team and is too ignorant to understand them?

He falls in love with flawed players constantly. Not that Peterka isn't a good player, but something tells me Terry is in love with this kid. While he could be used to make a solid hockey trade this summer, I'd bet that our ask will be far too high and we'll likely end up overpaying him.

Your points about Adams are fair. I’m not an Adams defender. Lack of attacking Adams does not equal Adams defender. That gets confused on these boards. A lot.

Murray blew a hole in the team. And he tried to import leadership in Gionta and others. But that was offset by adding Kane, Bogosian, and Lehner. Those are the bad character guys Quinn mentioned, I’d bet.

There was no Pominville and crew to bring Eichel and Reinhart in correctly. Anything Gionta and crew did got countered. There’s plenty of folks here who have their own insider info. There’s a lot to it. Murray may have been between the walls but he dug a 200 foot deep basement.

I’ve led non-choir boys my whole life. You don’t take on guys like Kane, Bogosian, and Lehner if you want to get far in anything.

Again, those teams were cratered by bad defense and questionable goaltending more than anything else. Lack of leadership might've played a role but it's not necessarily the main driver. A team of assholes can certainly be successful. There's no way you can convince me that a team a core with ROR, Eichel, O'Reilly and Kane should've been that bad.

It's Risto getting destroyed at ES for half the game and Lehner not being able to stop a single shootout attempt, or as mentioned previously Josh Gorges playing meaningful minutes. Put that young forward group in front of this current group and they'd one of the best teams in the league most likely. They needed a legit top guy so badly back then. Adding a top 5 d-man like Dahlin into that group would've been insanity.

 

[joshjull]

Golisano was willing to pay a team president. And Quinn/Regier have history of winning.

Pegula?

Tim Murray was far worse than anything Golisano did.

Quinn was team president because he was an owner and managing partner. It had nothing to do with Golisano’s willingness to pay for one. He (Quinn) was also an awful president whose decisions and interference hollowed out the team that emerged in 05-06. It took only two offseasons to go from one of the best/deepest teams to a shell of that going into the 2007-2008 season.

Quinn also had nothing to do with building the team that emerged in 05-06. That was; (1) Regier accumulating talent during the bankruptcy/ownership change, (2) Young players getting an extra AHL development year due to the lockout, (3) NHL rule changes coming out of the lockout and (4) Ruff molding the team into a style that fit what he had. Lindy started that in the 2nd half of the 03-04 season.

Quinn has been lying/spinning in an attempt to rehab his image ever since the 2007 offseason. No better gift on that front that the utter ineptitude of Pegula’s ownership.

 

[Pondslider]

Embarrassing for dumb and dumber to bring Quinn on their show and pretend he’s not a self-serving liar just because the current management/ownership sucks.

 

[enthusiast]

I maintain that Regier did an adequate job under unfavorable conditions given the full scope of his strengths and weaknesses. would I want him back given a choice of new candidates? No, ofc not, but if I had to pick from the last 20 years of Sabres GMs he’s the only one I’d take that I think could conceivably get them to respectable again.

 

[brian_griffin]

Quinn’s arrogance and self-righteousness was more destructive than any ineptitudes by others. Hubris magnifies sins of omission and commission.

 

[Der Jaeger]

It's shit like this that makes you realize what a terrible NHL owner Pegula is. If true, that really really pisses me off. What's the point of having analytics folks if Pegula is running the team and is too ignorant to understand them?

He falls in love with flawed players constantly. Not that Peterka isn't a good player, but something tells me Terry is in love with this kid. While he could be used to make a solid hockey trade this summer, I'd bet that our ask will be far too high and we'll likely end up overpaying him.

Again, those teams were cratered by bad defense and questionable goaltending more than anything else. Lack of leadership might've played a role but it's not necessarily the main driver. A team of assholes can certainly be successful. There's no way you can convince me that a team a core with ROR, Eichel, O'Reilly and Kane should've been that bad.

It's Risto getting destroyed at ES for half the game and Lehner not being able to stop a single shootout attempt, or as mentioned previously Josh Gorges playing meaningful minutes. Put that young forward group in front of this current group and they'd one of the best teams in the league most likely. They needed a legit top guy so badly back then. Adding a top 5 d-man like Dahlin into that group would've been insanity.

We’ll have to agree to disagree then. I think culture and leadership is the most important thing.

Putting Eichel and Reinhart around Kane and Bogosian was foolish. Yes, they’ve produced since leaving Buffalo. Eichel went to Vegas where he wasn’t in the leadership group when he got there and there we legit, established leaders. Reinhart landed in the same environment.

 

[dortt]

Quinn/Regier were handed a good team that the Muckler regime built, completely dismantled it and ran it into the ground, then using the previous regime's scouting staff built a small skilled team that had no chance of competing but lucked into the NHL's crackdown on obstruction, making their team build really good for the era. Then while being gifted that amazing opportunity, they completely dismantled the scouting department, got into repeated contract wars with players, continually chose the wrong players to keep over which ones to move on from when making tough core decisions, and dismantled that team and ran it into the ground.

We could miss the playoffs for 100 years, nothing has burned a hole deeper into my psyche than the bullshit of the Golisano/Quinn regime and the revisionist history around their tenure here. Golisano simultaneously rescued the team from being moved while destroying the foundation of a proud franchise.

Huh?

Darcy's team literally nearly won the cup, with the moves that Darcy made in 1999. Also, had an outstanding 2001 team that was a successive series of freak incidents (puck falling from the sky, smehlik whiffing on a clearing attempt, etc) from likely going to another SCF