After the draft top 10

[regulate]

It’s not a good story when the 20th pick overall gets worse every year once he’s in your system. The Kings have five players from that draft from between the 20 and 82nd pick. That includes Madden who is listed higher than Kupari all over this thread. I think the reason for that is fans of prospects overrate their picks until they see them actually play.

Kupari gets worse every year in your system? Did you watch last season?

Kupari was the team's leading scorer much of the season and came out of the gate greatly improved last year after suffering such a serious knee injury the year before. He was leading the AHL in scoring at one point. He did slow down the last month of the year, but he trended substantially up in his overall game, not down in his second pro season in North America.

 

[Lt Dan]

I dream of a fully packed Staples singing this whenever Kupari scores (obviously subbing in Kupari)

 

[johnjm22]

12 months ago prospect Stan’s around here were masturbating to visions of Vilardi potting 20 goals. We saw how that went. I think the only reason Gabe looked good in his call up was playing during garbage time and not spending time with the Kings development guys. Once they got their hands on him, its been all down hill.

That's ridiculous.

I do think the Kings may have made a mistake in making him a full time NHLer so soon.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Kupari gets worse every year in your system? Did you watch last season?

Kupari was the team's leading scorer much of the season and came out of the gate greatly improved last year after suffering such a serious knee injury the year before. He was leading the AHL in scoring at one point. He did slow down the last month of the year, but he trended substantially up in his overall game, not down in his second pro season in North America.

Sure he was great, if you ignore him disappearing when things matter. And I basically said earlier I like Rasmus given I think he should be the #1 prospect on these lists. But he’s not a top sixer this season and probably next. Similar to how long it’s taken Kempe and what looks like Vilardi’s path.

Outside of Byfield it doesn’t look like the Kings have a kid who can play a significant role before they are 22 to 23 years old.

 

[bland]

Kupari is 13th on my list.

He is far more likely to be traded than be a regular in Los Angeles. Good skills, but a low impact player. This prospect list is loading up with drivers, and Kupari isn't one of them.

Byfield
Clarke
Turcotte
Kaliyev
Faber
Thomas
Pinelli
Grans
Spence
Fagemo

Kirsanov
Madden
Kupari
Nousiainen
Helenius
Moverare
Clague
Simontaival
Parik
Chromiak

Four right shot defenders in the top 9, that's terrific bargaining power. If I had to speculate, I would think that Kupari, Grans and Clague are dealt first.

 

[Fishhead]

It’s not a good story when the 20th pick overall gets worse every year once he’s in your system. The Kings have five players from that draft from between the 20 and 82nd pick. That includes Madden who is listed higher than Kupari all over this thread. I think the reason for that is fans of prospects overrate their picks until they see them actually play.

12 months ago prospect Stan’s around here were masturbating to visions of Vilardi potting 20 goals. We saw how that went. I think the only reason Gabe looked good in his call up was playing during garbage time and not spending time with the Kings development guys. Once they got their hands on him, its been all down hill.

Kupari wasn't worse, he was better. I guess one of those years he was worse because he was out with the ACL issue, but probably not exactly fair to count that.

During his call-up Gabe was playing 2nd line with Frk and either Moore or Kempe, so not garbage time. Not sure I would use that as a premise for any argument. He looked good because he was playing well, not because of anything else.

Gabe was on a pace for 16 goals last year, and that's with the cold streak he went through. If he avoids that next season (and stays healthy), 20 shouldn't be a problem at all. Time will tell if he can do those two things.

 

[johnjm22]

Kupari gets worse every year in your system? Did you watch last season?

Kupari was the team's leading scorer much of the season and came out of the gate greatly improved last year after suffering such a serious knee injury the year before. He was leading the AHL in scoring at one point. He did slow down the last month of the year, but he trended substantially up in his overall game, not down in his second pro season in North America.

What happened that caused his production to fall off? Was there something noticeable in his game that changed?

 

[The Lukeman]

Tier 1:
1. Byfield: No explanation needed. Franchise player.
2. Kaliyev: Grown more than any other prospect. Skating has improved, defensive game has improved, already one of the best shots in the game. Lead the reign as a 19 year old, every year he moves up. Kaliyev is a top prospect.

Tier 2:
3. Clarke: Elite vision. Probably one of the least developed prospects in the top 8, yet handled himself very well in a men's league. Elite in the offensive zone, decent in the defensive zone. Transition game is also elite.
4. Turcotte: If he can stay healthy, he can become Mike Richards 2.0. Already has clutch performances (USA WJC).

Tier 3:
5. Faber: Like Kaliyev, has seen tremendous growth. Nominated for DPOY as a FRESHMEN. Not ready to move up him Tier 2, but he is close.
6. Madden: Injury has set him back, but he was playing lights out in the preseason and has progressed as a top prospect over the years. Thank you Vancouver.

Tier 4:
7. Thomas: Jack of all trades who was 2nd in scoring in Ontario. PK, PP, depth, top 6, he has been productive everywhere. Won't be a superstar, but will be a valuable member to any squad.
8. Grans: Still has a lot of room to grow, but has the chance to be a great offensive defenseman. Needs a lot of work in the D-zone
9. Fagemo: Excellent offensive player. Great shot. Forming into a solid middle 6 goal scorer. I expected a little more offensive this past season.
10. Kupari: NHL ready, growing into a middle 6 forward. Fast, slippery. Growing at the same pace as Kempe did. Consistency might be a concern.

(HM: 11. Penelli should be in the top 10, but I am not ready to put someone who is NHL-ready like Kupari out of the top 10.)

 

[regulate]

Sure he was great, if you ignore him disappearing when things matter. And I basically said earlier I like Rasmus given I think he should be the #1 prospect on these lists. But he’s not a top sixer this season and probably next. Similar to how long it’s taken Kempe and what looks like Vilardi’s path.

Outside of Byfield it doesn’t look like the Kings have a kid who can play a significant role before they are 22 to 23 years old.

You're statement was "It's not a good story when the 20th pick overall gets worse every year once he's in your system". When presented with evidence that was not the case, then your argument is "Sure he was great, but you ignore him disappearing when things matter". So he was great, but tailed off offensively near the end of the season, so he was worse and not progressing in his 2nd pro season in North America. And now you argue a player taken 20th in the draft, who is entering his 21 year old season as a pro, and has played a total of 59 AHL games (not even one full AHL season over two years, cut short by a serious injury and the pandemic) should be ranked higher in your system than players taken 2nd, 5th and 8th overall. And all this despite the fact he was second on the team last year in points per game, just slightly trailing Arthur Kaliyev among all of the prospects. Let's just say I disagree.

 

[Eagle Fang]

Kupari gets worse every year in your system? Did you watch last season?

Kupari was the team's leading scorer much of the season and came out of the gate greatly improved last year after suffering such a serious knee injury the year before. He was leading the AHL in scoring at one point. He did slow down the last month of the year, but he trended substantially up in his overall game, not down in his second pro season in North America.

Truth. He looked real good in Ont and easily was one of the best forwards. Improved alot from his 1st yrs in the A. Short of what he can show at the NHL level I dont know what more you could expect from him

 

[kinghock]

Kupari wasn't worse, he was better. I guess one of those years he was worse because he was out with the ACL issue, but probably not exactly fair to count that.

During his call-up Gabe was playing 2nd line with Frk and either Moore or Kempe, so not garbage time. Not sure I would use that as a premise for any argument. He looked good because he was playing well, not because of anything else.

Gabe was on a pace for 16 goals last year, and that's with the cold streak he went through. If he avoids that next season (and stays healthy), 20 shouldn't be a problem at all. Time will tell if he can do those two things.

I would like to compare Kupari and Vilardi in different areas of hockey game in my opinion:
Vision and creativity: Vilardi is better
Shot: Vilardi is better
Puck skills: Kupari = Vilardi
Skating: Kupari is better
Speed: Kupari is better
Physicality: Kupari is better
Defensive play: Kupari is better

 

[DryIslandBartender]

Kupari could be our Stoll in the future, fast and does very well in the face off circle.

These lists are subjective based on whether you are looking at potential vs NHL ready. Kupari showed enough that he can do well at the NHL level. Either way, he shouldn’t be outside of the top ten in prospect rankings.

 

[DoktorJeep]

You're statement was "It's not a good story when the 20th pick overall gets worse every year once he's in your system". When presented with evidence that was not the case, then your argument is "Sure he was great, but you ignore him disappearing when things matter". So he was great, but tailed off offensively near the end of the season, so he was worse and not progressing in his 2nd pro season in North America. And now you argue a player taken 20th in the draft, who is entering his 21 year old season as a pro, and has played a total of 59 AHL games (not even one full AHL season over two years, cut short by a serious injury and the pandemic) should be ranked higher in your system than players taken 2nd, 5th and 8th overall. And all this despite the fact he was second on the team last year in points per game, just slightly trailing Arthur Kaliyev among all of the prospects. Let's just say I disagree.

Kupari as prospect on the sub NHL depth chart has ranked lower every year since his draft by my observations. This year, he is at the lowest I’ve seen. I think it’s reasonable to conclude he has gotten worse, not better as a prospect.

At his draft, the projection was a top six center with comparisons to Sebastian Aho. His credentials at that time included men’s league experience and WJC team player. He’s entering the team’s fourth camp since then. And he’s not shown anything close to his draft accolades in his handful of NHL games.

That negative storyline outweighs the positive of 23 points in 32 AHL games when you are picked that high. I like this kid and all our kids. My point here is these prospect depth chart list are best considered volatile and unreliable with respect to projections in a 5 year window.

 

[ru4reals]

My top ten.

Byield
Turcotte
Clarke
Kaliyev
Faber
Kupari
Fagemo
Thomas
Madden
Pinelli

 

[johnjm22]

Turcotte was selected 5th OA in a deep draft.

Clarke was selected 8th OA in a weak draft

But lots of people are ranking Clarke above Turcotte.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Turcotte was selected 5th OA in a deep draft.

Clarke was selected 8th OA in a weak draft

But lots of people are ranking Clarke above Turcotte.

 

[Taluss]

Just wanted to come here and say... Man I envy your C depth. Hope you make a trade with NYR one day for one of em lol. I really like how your team is being built so far

 

[kinghock]

Turcotte was selected 5th OA in a deep draft.

Clarke was selected 8th OA in a weak draft

But lots of people are ranking Clarke above Turcotte.

Weak draft does not mean it was weak for first 9 position of this year.
I love Turcotte, but I think Clarke will be better player.

 

[kinghock]

Just wanted to come here and say... Man I envy your C depth. Hope you make a trade with NYR one day for one of em lol. I really like how your team is being built so far

Kings will make a trade with NYR only when it is going to be fair hockey trade to help both sides.

 

[Token]

Kupari reminds me of Kempe 2.0.

Skating is superb, all the tools in the world …

… and the confidence of a kid who just got caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

maybe the competition helps him, maybe not.

I’d sell on him right now as he still has some high regard in the prospect circle.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Kupari as prospect on the sub NHL depth chart has ranked lower every year since his draft by my observations. This year, he is at the lowest I’ve seen. I think it’s reasonable to conclude he has gotten worse, not better as a prospect.

At his draft, the projection was a top six center with comparisons to Sebastian Aho. His credentials at that time included men’s league experience and WJC team player. He’s entering the team’s fourth camp since then. And he’s not shown anything close to his draft accolades in his handful of NHL games.

That negative storyline outweighs the positive of 23 points in 32 AHL games when you are picked that high. I like this kid and all our kids. My point here is these prospect depth chart list are best considered volatile and unreliable with respect to projections in a 5 year window.

Kupari is the lowest first round draft pick on our depth chart since Kempe and he had a major knee injury to recover from. It's a very simple explanation.

Beyond that, you've spent your last five posts crapping on everyone's assessments but your own and insulting the forum suggesting it's just 'new toy syndrome' even though people are giving you legitimate reasons so I'd urge you to open your ears a little at this point.

 

[bland]

Turcotte was selected 5th OA in a deep draft.

Clarke was selected 8th OA in a weak draft

But lots of people are ranking Clarke above Turcotte.

That's an odd rational that leads to all kinds of wonky reasoning. By that logic Kupari would be the fourth best prospect on the list, and he isn't even top ten.

Clarke is a potential top pairing defender who runs your top PP unit and drives play forward at all times. That's a more valuable role than where Turcotte projects, and that is the worst you will ever hear me say about Turcotte.

And I think that the opposite is just as true. There is just as much of a tendency to hold back on praising newer picks to cover your opinion than there is to over praise them.

 

[kinghock]

Kupari reminds me of Kempe 2.0.

Skating is superb, all the tools in the world …

… and the confidence of a kid who just got caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

maybe the competition helps him, maybe not.

I’d sell on him right now as he still has some high regard in the prospect circle.

I would trade Kempe first...

 

[King'sPawn]

To see so many fans leave Rasmus down low or off their list is telling and evidence of how much loving shiny new toys isn’t just for pro players. And it’s another strike against the Kings development group.

Yet Vilardi was often rated higher than Kupari when Vilardi was still considered a prospect. Even with his injuries and uncertainty of recovering.

By your logic, if people picked solely because of "newness", Kupari would have been rated higher.

Kupari being rated lower has been explained by me and others. However, if you need additional assistance, the further removed a player is from their draft class AND the further they are from playing their projected role, the lower their value.

Kupari may get time on the top line this season. However, these are the players ahead of him on the depth chart in each forward position:

LW
Iafallo
Kempe
Andersson
So if used on the left, Kupari would be in the Frk/Lemieux/Wagner/Grundstrom range

C
Kopitar
Vilardi
Byfield
JAD
So Kupari would be in the Lizotte/Turcotte range at Center

RW:
Arvidsson
Moore
So Kupari would be in the Brown/Frk/Kaliyev/Tkachev range

For a highly-skilled winger, he's struggling to land a top-6 role. Injuries have played a part, sure, but Kaliyev has passed him on the depth chart by virtue of rounding out his game while displaying better playmaking and scoring ability at a younger age.

That's when he might project to play in the middle-six. He has more raw skill than Thomas, but Thomas' utility will likely move him around the lineup easier (oh, and Thomas was drafted in the same year as Kupari, so it's not a "new toy").

Kupari's raw talent may not land him a top-6 role on the Kings. And he's not an energy forward. That affects his value.

 

[lumbergh]

Kupari is the next Kempe.