Toggle sidebar

Player Discussion Adam Fox

That first Calgary goal is all on Fox. He makes a bad shoot in into the Calgary move basically giving the puck to Weegar and then Fox attempts to pinch to keep the play alive. Calgary gains possession of the puck and Fox is scrambling to get back into the play. Fox falls down on the play in the Rangers zone attempting to check Prospil. He ends up behind the net. Calgary scores.

This site doesn't allow screen recordings. The tape don't lie my friends. Does anyone know how to upload a screen recording here?

This guy is a bad defenseman. He can pass the puck. He is average at everything else. His game is declining. His knee hurts. Now his shoulder hurts. He needs a full summer off. Can you make up more excuses for him? He needs to train harder. We heard the same nonsense with Brad Richards needing to train harder. Fox is not get stronger or faster by training harder this summer. The Rangers need to move from so many players and Fox is one of them. Time to go.
 
  • Like
  • Wow
  • Haha
Reactions: Filthy Dangles, leetch99, effen and 4 others
RangerBoy said:
That first Calgary goal is all on Fox. He makes a bad shoot in into the Calgary move basically giving the puck to Weegar and then Fox attempts to pinch to keep the play alive. Calgary gains possession of the puck and Fox is scrambling to get back into the play. Fox falls down on the play in the Rangers zone attempting to check Prospil. He ends up behind the net. Calgary scores.

This site doesn't allow screen recordings. The tape don't lie my friends. Does anyone know how to upload a screen recording here?

This guy is a bad defenseman. He can pass the puck. He is average at everything else. His game is declining. His knee hurts. Now his shoulder hurts. He needs a full summer off. Can you make up more excuses for him? He needs to train harder. We heard the same nonsense with Brad Richards needing to train harder. Fox is not get stronger or faster by training harder this summer. The Rangers need to move from so many players and Fox is one of them. Time to go.
Click to expand...
I have voiced some concerns about Fox but I don't like when people label injuries as "excuses" for any players. A back injury slowed Gretz. A shoulder basically made Beck miss multiple seasons. Knees took out Bobby Orr. None of these guys needed "excuses".
 
RangerBoy said:
That first Calgary goal is all on Fox. He makes a bad shoot in into the Calgary move basically giving the puck to Weegar and then Fox attempts to pinch to keep the play alive. Calgary gains possession of the puck and Fox is scrambling to get back into the play. Fox falls down on the play in the Rangers zone attempting to check Prospil. He ends up behind the net. Calgary scores.

This site doesn't allow screen recordings. The tape don't lie my friends. Does anyone know how to upload a screen recording here?

This guy is a bad defenseman. He can pass the puck. He is average at everything else. His game is declining. His knee hurts. Now his shoulder hurts. He needs a full summer off. Can you make up more excuses for him? He needs to train harder. We heard the same nonsense with Brad Richards needing to train harder. Fox is not get stronger or faster by training harder this summer. The Rangers need to move from so many players and Fox is one of them. Time to go.
Click to expand...
Yeah we have EJ Emery ready to take over as 1D and PP Qb
 
RangerBoy said:
That first Calgary goal is all on Fox. He makes a bad shoot in into the Calgary move basically giving the puck to Weegar and then Fox attempts to pinch to keep the play alive. Calgary gains possession of the puck and Fox is scrambling to get back into the play. Fox falls down on the play in the Rangers zone attempting to check Prospil. He ends up behind the net. Calgary scores.

This site doesn't allow screen recordings. The tape don't lie my friends. Does anyone know how to upload a screen recording here?

This guy is a bad defenseman. He can pass the puck. He is average at everything else. His game is declining. His knee hurts. Now his shoulder hurts. He needs a full summer off. Can you make up more excuses for him? He needs to train harder. We heard the same nonsense with Brad Richards needing to train harder. Fox is not get stronger or faster by training harder this summer. The Rangers need to move from so many players and Fox is one of them. Time to go.
Click to expand...


I don’t really see anything wrong with Fox here. This is just Laviolettes man on man scheme being horrible. If you watch the play Vaakanainen follows Kadri to the blue line, Panarin ends up on nobody down low. Then Fox and Trocheck obsess over tying up their own man and ignore the puck entirely which im assuming they’re coached to do. Vaakanainen sees nobody defending Weegar because Panarin is checking air and then nobody is left to defend Kadri.
 
I'm not a guy who believes in "untouchables" on any team. It all depends on the deal made. I'm not a big fan of trading top tier guys, which Fox IS no matter anyone's opinions or predictions for the future are. Generally you LOSE that trade. Usually the team GETTING the top tier guy wins the trade. Hey, even top tier for top tier can go horribly wrong (see Tkachuck/Huberdeau). But generally you trade these top guys for multiple pieces and EVERY one of those pieces needs to pan out in order for you to just break even. Look at the JT Miller trade. It's pretty shit for Vancouver as Fil may well be done and there's no guarantee that any other asset in that trade will make an NHL impact, or even MAKE it as an NHL regular.
So yeah, if we are trading Fox for McJesus or Drai, or Matthews or Q Hughes or Makar, you do it (depending on the whole package)... other than that its a trade you lose 49 times out of 50. SEEKING to trade Fox, because you don't like him or how he plays, despite the stats and analytics saying he's still a top D in this league, is a really bad move IMO.
 
80shockeywasbuns said:


I don’t really see anything wrong with Fox here. This is just Laviolettes man on man scheme being horrible. If you watch the play Vaakanainen follows Kadri to the blue line, Panarin ends up on nobody down low. Then Fox and Trocheck obsess over tying up their own man and ignore the puck entirely which im assuming they’re coached to do. Vaakanainen sees nobody defending Weegar because Panarin is checking air and then nobody is left to defend Kadri.
Click to expand...

People see what they WANT to see sometimes. Plus its only one play. I can find you a blown play by ANY top player that has ever played in this league (if the games were broadcast/recorded).
 
  • Like
Reactions: UnSandvich and 80shockeywasbuns
bhamill said:
People see what they WANT to see sometimes. Plus its only one play. I can find you a blown play by ANY top player that has ever played in this league (if the games were broadcast/recorded).
Click to expand...
You could find a “blown” play by basically any player on any shift ever haha. But seriously on this play it’s pretty clear that the breakdown was Vaakanainen following a forward to the point (which I assume is what Laviolettes man scheme requires) and then Panarin occupies the LD spot but nobody is there and then chaos ensued
 
  • Like
Reactions: bhamill
At a very basic level, Fox is not between his man and the goal for most of the recording. At first because he fell which, fine, nobody tries to fall. He then chases his man and does a do-see-do like he's square dancing , chasing his back and ends up behind the net defending the netfront from the boards, glass, and crowd.

That last part is bad. No reason to do that unless you're cheating for the puck arriving at the boards for some reason. He didn't want to make a hard stop at the goal line and box out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: EdJovanovski
80shockeywasbuns said:


I don’t really see anything wrong with Fox here. This is just Laviolettes man on man scheme being horrible. If you watch the play Vaakanainen follows Kadri to the blue line, Panarin ends up on nobody down low. Then Fox and Trocheck obsess over tying up their own man and ignore the puck entirely which im assuming they’re coached to do. Vaakanainen sees nobody defending Weegar because Panarin is checking air and then nobody is left to defend Kadri.
Click to expand...

Manonmanisbuns
 
  • Like
Reactions: 80shockeywasbuns
80shockeywasbuns said:


I don’t really see anything wrong with Fox here. This is just Laviolettes man on man scheme being horrible. If you watch the play Vaakanainen follows Kadri to the blue line, Panarin ends up on nobody down low. Then Fox and Trocheck obsess over tying up their own man and ignore the puck entirely which im assuming they’re coached to do. Vaakanainen sees nobody defending Weegar because Panarin is checking air and then nobody is left to defend Kadri.
Click to expand...

Go back to the faceoff in the neutral zone. 10:09 on the clock. Fox shoots the puck into the Calgary zone and Weegar recovers the puck. The puck rims around the boards. Fox pinches and the puck gets behind Fox. Here come the Flames and Fox is caught. Chaos ensues. Nobody knows what they are doing. Fox falls down trying to defend or check Prospil. Doesn't it seem Fox is always falling down? Fox is behind the net. To the side of the net. There is nobody in front. Prospil is not scoring a goal from behind the net.

In the 4 nations championship game. Canada rims the puck around the boards. Hanifin doesn't stop the puck which finds it's way to Marner. Our boy Fox decides to chase Marner by going behind the net. Matthews sees Marner with the puck and decides to pressure him which leaves McDavid all alone. Fox should have skated to the front of the net and Matthews pressures Marner.
 
  • Like
Reactions: EdJovanovski
RangerBoy said:
Go back to the faceoff in the neutral zone. 10:09 on the clock. Fox shoots the puck into the Calgary zone and Weegar recovers the puck. The puck rims around the boards. Fox pinches and the puck gets behind Fox. Here come the Flames and Fox is caught. Chaos ensues. Nobody knows what they are doing. Fox falls down trying to defend or check Prospil. Doesn't it seem Fox is always falling down? Fox is behind the net. To the side of the net. There is nobody in front. Prospil is not scoring a goal from behind the net.

In the 4 nations championship game. Canada rims the puck around the boards. Hanifin doesn't stop the puck which finds its way to Marner. Our boy Fox decides to chase Marner by going behind the net. Matthews sees Marner with the puck and decides to pressure him which leaves McDavid all alone. Fox should have skated to the front of the net and Matthews pressures Marner.
Click to expand...
Idk it all just looks chaotic to me which always results in players looking lackadaisical or like they have no clue what they’re doing. I usually trust Fox to make strong reads and leaving the net front is often necessary to try to force the issue and end a d zone sequence.

Honestly a random thing about this play that bothers me the most is Trocheck selling out to tie Zary up to the point that his stick is like above the crossbar. If he just had his own stick free or even remotely near the ice he could make a play on the slow rolling Marc Staal bank shot that squeaked in front. It reminds me of trash basketball fundamentals where they teach you to take your eyes off the ball and find someone to box out instead of just tracking the ball and getting ready to grab the damn rebound
 
bhamill said:
People see what they WANT to see sometimes. Plus its only one play. I can find you a blown play by ANY top player that has ever played in this league (if the games were broadcast/recorded).
Click to expand...

As good as Mario was the way I really knew how great he was was watching him undress Ray Bourque. Ray was obviously a great Dman and Mario just toyed with him. When I saw that I was like oh geez Mario is even better than I thought.

When it comes to Fox I like Fox. I have a soft spot for him because my dad would call him "my guy". I do not see him as good as the alternative stats guys say nor as bad as some of his detractors say.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LokiDog and TheWrongWay
RangerBoy said:
Go back to the faceoff in the neutral zone. 10:09 on the clock. Fox shoots the puck into the Calgary zone and Weegar recovers the puck. The puck rims around the boards. Fox pinches and the puck gets behind Fox. Here come the Flames and Fox is caught. Chaos ensues. Nobody knows what they are doing. Fox falls down trying to defend or check Prospil. Doesn't it seem Fox is always falling down? Fox is behind the net. To the side of the net. There is nobody in front. Prospil is not scoring a goal from behind the net.

In the 4 nations championship game. Canada rims the puck around the boards. Hanifin doesn't stop the puck which finds it's way to Marner. Our boy Fox decides to chase Marner by going behind the net. Matthews sees Marner with the puck and decides to pressure him which leaves McDavid all alone. Fox should have skated to the front of the net and Matthews pressures Marner.
Click to expand...

You have made 8 posts about trading Fox or how bad he is since Tuesday. Calm down. Nobody wants to read the same thing over and over again. Go and write it in your journal.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Do you want ants and mrmovies779
NickyFotiu said:
As good as Mario was the way I really knew how great he was was watching him undress Ray Bourque. Ray was obviously a great Dman and Mario just toyed with him. When I saw that I was like oh geez Mario is even better than I thought.

When it comes to Fox I like Fox. I have a soft spot for him because my dad would call him "my guy". I do not see him as good as the alternative stats guys say nor as bad as some of his detractors say.
Click to expand...
That's a fair opinion.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NickyFotiu
haohmaru said:
7th fastest D in NHL history to 300 assists.

Trade his sorry ass.
Click to expand...

I mean… I’ve said it before, but I don’t think it’s really about Fox at this point. The team like really legitimately and genuinely needs to be completely dismantled and Fox may have already played his best hockey, but almost certainly won’t still be playing his best hockey when this mess of a team is actually ready to compete again… so it isn’t really so much about what he’s accomplished and whether he is/isn’t elite so much as it’s a matter of what value he is to a team that’s going nowhere. Perrault and Cuylle being your best players under 25 is pretttttty abysmal. Kreider and Zib aren’t bringing back anything worthwhile. What would get us young assets to start a rebuild? I know. We won’t ever see a proper rebuild in NYC, and I know not all fans agree about needing one… but if you can get over whether or not you agree (not you personally) with the idea of trading Fox and instead look at it as whether or not you can see the merit in believing we need a full tear down rebuild (which even if it isn’t your preferred route, I imagine most can see as a 50/50 proposition) than it shouldn’t be too difficult to fathom why moving Fox becomes a discussion for some.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Graves97 and Slaydagnar
LokiDog said:
I mean… I’ve said it before, but I don’t think it’s really about Fox at this point. The team like really legitimately and genuinely needs to be completely dismantled and Fox may have already played his best hockey, but almost certainly won’t still be playing his best hockey when this mess of a team is actually ready to compete again… so it isn’t really so much about what he’s accomplished and whether he is/isn’t elite so much as it’s a matter of what value he is to a team that’s going nowhere. Perrault and Cuylle being your best players under 25 is pretttttty abysmal. Kreider and Zib aren’t bringing back anything worthwhile. What would get us young assets to start a rebuild? I know. We won’t ever see a proper rebuild in NYC, and I know not all fans agree about needing one… but if you can get over whether or not you agree (not you personally) with the idea of trading Fox and instead look at it as whether or not you can see the merit in believing we need a full tear down rebuild (which even if it isn’t your preferred route, I imagine most can see as a 50/50 proposition) than it shouldn’t be too difficult to fathom why moving Fox becomes a discussion for some.
Click to expand...

Listen, I'm not saying he's absolutely a guy you have to hang on to no matter what.

I am saying that the deal better be sure fire no fail idiot proof AND knock my socks off.

NOT the typical Rangers trade great young(ish) player for a long shot, a draft pick and a 3rd liner.
 
LokiDog said:
I mean… I’ve said it before, but I don’t think it’s really about Fox at this point. The team like really legitimately and genuinely needs to be completely dismantled and Fox may have already played his best hockey, but almost certainly won’t still be playing his best hockey when this mess of a team is actually ready to compete again… so it isn’t really so much about what he’s accomplished and whether he is/isn’t elite so much as it’s a matter of what value he is to a team that’s going nowhere. Perrault and Cuylle being your best players under 25 is pretttttty abysmal. Kreider and Zib aren’t bringing back anything worthwhile. What would get us young assets to start a rebuild? I know. We won’t ever see a proper rebuild in NYC, and I know not all fans agree about needing one… but if you can get over whether or not you agree (not you personally) with the idea of trading Fox and instead look at it as whether or not you can see the merit in believing we need a full tear down rebuild (which even if it isn’t your preferred route, I imagine most can see as a 50/50 proposition) than it shouldn’t be too difficult to fathom why moving Fox becomes a discussion for some.
Click to expand...
The amount of assists Fox has in what I consider a down injured season is impressive. With that said there probably can't be any untouchable NYR after this season. If a team with a top 3 draft pick was interested in Fox do we entertain a trade?
 
bleedblue94 said:
It's there, you just don't want to address it. It's fine.
Click to expand...

You say it's there" yet your third paragraph stated "I'm not going to start a deep dive to determine the context"

So, it's not there.

I asked you why Fox has career best numbers in many basic categories if his play is so much worse and all you responded with was one paragraph about Connor McDavid, one paragraph about Quinn Hughes (yes, I mentioned them in my post responding to your previous comment), and one paragraph saying you're not going to determine the context.

You want to say he's getting more zone starts this year? That is true. But are you seriously going to tell me ONE additional offensive zone faceoff per game from this year compared to last year is the reason?

You also specifically mention five things except it's really just being wordy and repetitive to make it look like you're mentioning a lot of things. "Deployment" and "Zone Starts" are essentially the same thing. "Matchups", "Strength of opponents on ice", and "Miller/Borgen getting harder assignments" are the same thing.
 
Last edited:
SA16 said:
You say it's there" yet your third paragraph stated "I'm not going to start a deep dive to determine the context"

So, it's not there.

I asked you why Fox has career best numbers in many basic categories if his play is so much worse and all you responded with was one paragraph about Connor McDavid, one paragraph about Quinn Hughes (yes, I mentioned them in my post responding to your previous comment), and one paragraph saying you're not going to determine the context.
Click to expand...
If Fox has career best numbers maybe its time to question the value of those stats. Fox to his credit would be the first guy to say this has not been one of his better seasons.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Filthy Dangles
NickyFotiu said:
If Fox has career best numbers maybe its time to question the value of those stats. Fox to his credit would be the first guy to say this has not been one of his better seasons.
Click to expand...

I think you are highly overcomplicating the stats here. The first stat is literally points at 5v5 on a per minute basis. There's not some complex mathematical formula here. The second stat is literally just shot attempts for and against. Again, it's counting things that happened on the ice. There's no complex formula. If you want to argue xG is more of a black box with unknown inputs and weightings I won't disagree with you there but that's not the only stat that he's putting up great results in.

I think the burden of proof is the other direction here. Fox has put up great numbers for years. He still is putting up great numbers. If you think his play is worse, why, because the results have not changed? If his skating is worse then why have the results not reflected that? Leaguewide scoring is down this year so it's not that everyone is scoring more.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
adding hide avatars option

Latest posts

Ad

Ad

Top Bottom