Where is Rantanen? Who is Rantanen? Why is Rantanen? What is Rantanen?

[ExarKun80]

The difference between ask and offer was around $3M AAV when the Avs traded him, not $250-500k.

Not saying the Avs made the right move, but it’s misleading to frame it like they were playing hardball over some minuscule amount.

He signed with the Stars for 12mil/year. Are you telling me that the AVS were offering him 9mil? I doubt that since that offer would have been an insult. Not even Jim Benning would have made such a stupid offer.

 

[jalapenoWithAnH]

It's not revisionist history FFS

A lot of Avs fans have been down on Mikko for a few seasons now, and it's because they actually watch him play night in and night out. And while you obviously haven't, you can look up the advanced stats and see what was going on. FACT: Mikko Rantanen had regressed, and could not drive play or produce without MacKinnon. That's not an opinion, it's a straight-up fact.

Now, if that was because of coaching (like not managing his minutes properly), that's a different discussion. And we are going to have it in length and detail, if Rantanen continues to play like this, especially continuing next season. If he does that, there is going to be a giant discussion about the way Colorado handled it.

I know all that but saying he is lazy while he plays 22min a game is straight up dishonest. That actually might be the reason why he looks so lazy: he is constantly on the ice and has to preserve his energy.

 

[behemolari]

I can definitely understand selling high on elite talent past their prime. I think it's the way to go really. What is absolutely bat shit crazy is to do that over 750k with cap going up like it is. And the player is still in his prime.

That's just so dumb I can't get my head around it.

They were thinking Necas is equal player to Rantanen, that was delusional, also maybe it was mutual benefit and post season MacKinnon was product of Rantanen too. Dumb as it gets indeed.

 

[Mr Nogatco]

So in a moment of panic they capitulated millions of dollars they were 100% dead set on up until a half hour before?

Buddy you are taking things wayyy too literally. They acted like they were ready to walk away from 12M to try to extract more $ from Dallas. Clearly they were not.

That’s part of posturing to try to get the best possible deal. It wasn’t “a moment of panic” because there was obviously more wiggle room on Rantanen’s part than they initially let on.

Felt fully obligated to lock in an eight year deal way way below their value when they could have just gone to free agency?

You’re assuming that he felt free agency was a more attractive option. There was clearly value in getting a deal done in-season. Just before 2pm at the TDL was his absolute last chance to make that happen, assuming he didn’t want to extend in Carolina… and by all accounts he preferred not to do that.

 

[sooni]

Rantanen is one of the all time greatest playoff performers. Lets just trade him for Necas. He just kicked that lazy ass Colorado out of the playoffs. Like cmon that trade was just f***ing terrible. Hat trick after hat trick and record after record. 8 more years.

 

[Soedy]

I know all that but saying he is lazy while he plays 22min a game is straight up dishonest. That actually might be the reason why he looks so lazy: he is constantly on the ice and has to preserve his energy.

To clarify, though this was common sense in a hockey forum: When I talk about lazy in hockey, I am not talking about TOI.

 

[jalapenoWithAnH]

To clarify, though this was common sense in a hockey forum: When I talk about lazy in hockey, I am not talking about TOI.

Whatever you meant I just gave you possible answer to your criticism..

 

[behemolari]

The difference between ask and offer was around $3M AAV when the Avs traded him, not $250-500k.

Not saying the Avs made the right move, but it’s misleading to frame it like they were playing hardball over some minuscule amount.

you know Rantanen was going to take serious discount? or are you saying he is lying?

Mikko Rantanen blindsided by trade: 'I was willing to take a significant discount' | TSN

Mikko Rantanen said Monday he was blindsided by the blockbuster trade that sent him from the Colorado Avalanche to the Carolina Hurricanes on Friday night.

www.tsn.ca

 

[LOFIN]

you know Rantanen was going to take serious discount? or are you saying he is lying?

We don't know what that means even. From the Avalanche perspective, Rantanen camp was looking for 13M when they traded him. You can walk the Sakic/MacFarland presser from Tuesday to see that.

 

[Mr Nogatco]

He signed with the Stars for 12mil/year. Are you telling me that the AVS were offering him 9mil? I doubt that since that offer would have been an insult. Not even Jim Benning would have made such a stupid offer.

No, I’m not telling you that.

It’s reported that the Avs had offered $11.xx x 8, and that he was seeking something similar to the contract his agent had recently negotiated for Draisaitl, i.e. $14.xx x 8.

 

[LOFIN]

They were thinking Necas is equal player to Rantanen

No they didn't, what makes you think of that?

 

[LOFIN]

No, I’m not telling you that.

It’s reported that the Avs had offered $11.xx x 8, and that he was seeking something similar to the contract his agent had recently negotiated for Draisaitl, i.e. $14.xx x 8.

Yeah, and it was later reported that Rantanen camp was at 13M.

 

[ExarKun80]

Fact: when looking at advanced stats and whatnot, it's clearly visible that in 2022-2025 Rantanen got basically all of his production playing with MacKinnon. It's absolutely not a wrong take by the Avs fans (and management) to think that based on his play in 2022-2025, he is not worth the MacKinnon (let alone Draisaitl) money. He has not been able to carry his own line anymore. The production has been there because he's an elite talent, but he hasn't been an elite play driving forward.

Now, we will see in the upcoming years if the Avs made the right bet that Rantanen has regressed and needs to be moved when the opportunity is there. Because if this continues on, major questions are going to be asked about Jared Bednar's coaching, if under him Rantanen regressed from a playdriving force to the version he was before the trade. If Dallas and DeBoer can unlock that pre-2022 version of Rantanen for good (we are still talking about a very small sample size here), then that's a major indictment and one of the worst failures by management in recent NHL history. The Avs basically trusted their coach more than a superstar player. And we all know which ones are easier to get, good coaches, or superstar players.

But, we'll see. I don't think we can make the determination about that based on these playoffs alone. Unless Rantanen wins the Conn Smythe I guess. But this trade will need to be looked back on for years to come. We haven't even finished the opening chapter of this saga, many more chapters will be written.

Holly copium.
I don't think you understand what's happening. Trading Rantanen closed the AVS window for good during the Mack-Makar era. At best, they'll get iced in the 2nd round for the next few years even if they hire a good coach. It would be like the Penguins trading Malkin 2-3 years after their cup win in 2009. It's not just about trading him for a guy that's soft and can't be counted on in the playoffs but you also ended up improving a rival that's going to kick your ass for the next 3-4 years.

 

[Mr Nogatco]

Yeah, and it was later reported that Rantanen camp was at 13M.

Okay? That’s still a much more significant difference in value than “$250-500k”, which was the claim I originally replied to and keeps being repeated ITT

 

[LOFIN]

Holly copium.
I don't think you understand what's happening. Trading Rantanen closed the AVS window for good during the Mack-Makar era. At best, they'll get iced in the 2nd round for the next few years even if they hire a good coach. It would be like the Penguins trading Malkin 2-3 years after their cup win in 2009. It's not just about trading him for a guy that's soft and can't be counted on in the playoffs but you also ended up improving a rival that's going to kick your ass for the next 3-4 years.

Maybe it did. Maybe it didn't. I'm not going to predict the future 4-5 years down the line based on 3 previous games, even though it's the hot thing to do right now.

 

[jonlin]

Sakic/MacFarland presser from Tuesday to see that.

And? Are you seriously suggesting Sakic and MacFarland would actually tell the fans if they lowballed Rants after this?

 

[BB88]

To save 1M in cap space in a rising cap

Chris Johnston said they were 0.25M apart on the deal…

Imagine giving Manson 4.5M, Coyle 5+ but not being able to give Rantanen a fair deal

 

[FinPanda]

I've not seen him this good for years. He always seemed underwhelming. four games won't change it but he has been incredible and I'm very happy for him.

 

[LOFIN]

And? Are you seriously suggesting Sakic and MacFarland would actually tell the fans if they lowballed Rants after this?

We don't know how much further down Rantanen would've come, or did come when he went to the Colorado front office after his agent still gave the number 13M after Colorado's final offer. Maybe he told the Avs that he would take 12M. Maybe he told them that he's willing to sign for MacKinnon money. Maybe he told them that he would take a discount, but the Avs still need to up the offer from 11.6M. We don't know, because the Avs never got back to him. From the Avs POV, when his agent countered their 11.6M with 13M again, they were done.

 

[LOFIN]

Chris Johnston said they were 0.25M apart on the deal…

Please provide that source, because I've never seen him say that, and other reporters/insiders have not said anything alike, even those that have been reporting on this case far more.

 

[Mr Nogatco]

you know Rantanen was going to take serious discount? or are you saying he is lying?

Mikko Rantanen blindsided by trade: 'I was willing to take a significant discount' | TSN

Mikko Rantanen said Monday he was blindsided by the blockbuster trade that sent him from the Colorado Avalanche to the Carolina Hurricanes on Friday night.

www.tsn.ca

Someone can be “willing to take a discount” when push comes to shove … but also planning on playing hardball in the meantime to extract concessions and get a better deal. And in fact that’s exactly how Andy Scott negotiated Rant’s extension with Dallas.

3.5 hours before the TDL, 12x8 was still “well short of acceptable” to sign with Dallas.

Obviously it was in fact acceptable…
but Scott didn’t let DAL know that until the last possible second, because he hoped they would increase their offer.

 

[jonlin]

We don't know how much further down Rantanen would've come

Id assume he would very likely have taken a discount, as he bought a house in Denver and expected to stay there. More likely is that Sakic/MacFarland tried to hardball him cause of this and failed. Not a good look to hardball your starplayers. And I wouldnt expect them to admit it either, cause the reaction from fans could ruin their careers.

 

[LOFIN]

Id assume he would very likely have taken a discount, as he bought a house in Denver and expected to stay there. More likely is that Sakic/MacFarland tried to hardball him cause of this and failed. Not a good look to hardball your starplayers. And I wouldnt expect them to admit it either, cause the reaction from fans could ruin their careers.

I phrased it poorly. We know that Rantanen would've signed that 11.6M offer from Colorado, had he known how serious they were about trading him. What I meant to say was, we don't know how much of a discount he said he would've taken. It's obvious that at that point he still wasn't willing to sign up for that 11.6M, because he thought he had still time to negotiate.

The negotiations are a two-way street. Mikko hardballed the Avs just as much. As it has been reported by many people, Rantanen probably would've signed for 11.6M with Colorado. He didn't because he was still negotiating. And it resulted in him being traded.

 

[BB88]

The difference between ask and offer was around $3M AAV when the Avs traded him, not $250-500k.

Not saying the Avs made the right move, but it’s misleading to frame it like they were playing hardball over some minuscule amount.

No it wasnt’

 

[jaa]

It's not revisionist history FFS

A lot of Avs fans have been down on Mikko for a few seasons now, and it's because they actually watch him play night in and night out.

I watched him in this series and lazy is not the word that I'd use to describe him. Not many avs fans aren't down on Mikko anymore

I feel sorry for the lot that still are in the denial phase of picrel.