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Adam Clendening

Drop the Sopel said:
As opposed to what, Bieksa on that pairing getting turnstiled like he's not even there?

At least Clendening won't be eating up close to $5mil of cap space. Might even get some utility out of the guy on the PP. Something Bieksa hasn't been able to do very effectively for the last 6 years.
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I could have put Bieksa-Clendening, Sbisa-Clendening or Bieksa-Sbisa and made the same comment. Which is the point. They don't belong fulltime as 5/6 guys in the NHL.

Look elsewhere.

Terrible job with the blueline so far by Benning and company. Just terrible. And I suspect he's going to make it even worse by moving Hamhuis, one of only 3 guys that can take a regular shift in the NHL (well Bieksa might be able to when not paired with Sbisa but he is certainly third pairing now).
 
biturbo19 said:
For next year, yes. Barring a trade away from Vancouver prior to being placed on waivers. Clendening will play for the Vancouver Canucks, another team in the NHL, or the Utica Comets.

I don't know why you're talking about the entire rest of his career now.
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Because in response to the poster who called him a "career AHLer",
I said if it came to be, it would be with another franchise and you said it couldn't happen.

Next year correct, but as he moves on in his "career", he can become a "career AHLer" with another AHL team. It can happen, can't it?
 
 
tantalum said:
I could have put Bieksa-Clendening, Sbisa-Clendening or Bieksa-Sbisa and made the same comment. Which is the point. They don't belong fulltime as 5/6 guys in the NHL.

Look elsewhere.

Terrible job with the blueline so far by Benning and company. Just terrible. And I suspect he's going to make it even worse by moving Hamhuis, one of only 3 guys that can take a regular shift in the NHL (well Bieksa might be able to when not paired with Sbisa but he is certainly third pairing now).
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His 3 moves so far have been:

1) dumping Garrison for a pick.
2) picking up Sbisa and giving him a ludicrous deal.
3) trading a very good prospect for a player struggling defensively in the AHL and who is waiver-eligible next year.

The first two are outright terrible and the third looks to be failing. Coupled with how the goaltending situation was botched ... it's painful.

Hopefully we're not stupid enough to deal Hamhuis ... but it wouldn't surprise me.
 
MS said:
His 3 moves so far have been:

1) dumping Garrison for a pick.
2) picking up Sbisa and giving him a ludicrous deal.
3) trading a very good prospect for a player struggling defensively in the AHL and who is waiver-eligible next year.

The first two are outright terrible and the third looks to be failing. Coupled with how the goaltending situation was botched ... it's painful.

Hopefully we're not stupid enough to deal Hamhuis ... but it wouldn't surprise me.
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All fair (and true, to this point) points. I still believe that with playing a full season without injury and getting the full confidence from his coach, Sbisa will start to bloom.

I don't think you will find a GM in the league who won't have his misses. JB has had a few hits with his moves and picks (potentially).
 
MS said:
His 3 moves so far have been:

1) dumping Garrison for a pick.
2) picking up Sbisa and giving him a ludicrous deal.
3) trading a very good prospect for a player struggling defensively in the AHL and who is waiver-eligible next year.

The first two are outright terrible and the third looks to be failing. Coupled with how the goaltending situation was botched ... it's painful.

Hopefully we're not stupid enough to deal Hamhuis ... but it wouldn't surprise me.
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How are those his only 3 moves?

He also acquired Pedan for cheap. He's shown a ton of promise.

He also drafted the "very good prospect" that he dealt.

You also told us countless times that Sbisa couldn't improve as a hockey player at this point, but he absolutely did over the course of the season. No he's not good enough to cover for a declining Kevin Bieksa, but Sbisa did show an over all improvement. Won't be acknowledged by the anti-Benning crowd though cuz it doesn't fit the narrative.

As for Clendening, jury is still out. Big concern for me is his lack of footspeed. A transition tyoe defender that isn't at least a plus skater is a bit of a long shot.

Still when you look at the NHL roster moves - Garrison out, Clendening in - it's a move in the right direction, even with Garrison being the much better player at this point. Our roster was/is filled with plodding middle-pairing dmen with little to no offensive creativity. Clendening is arguably the most offensively creative blueliner that saw time with the big club this season, and even Sbisa, for all his warts, is right there with Weber as the best skater we have from the back end.

Too early for any definitive declarations, but I'm optimistic with the direction Benning is taking the team as a whole, and the blueline specifically. We will see in a couple of years whether the constant griping was justified.
 
alternate said:
How are those his only 3 moves?

He also acquired Pedan for cheap. He's shown a ton of promise.

He also drafted the "very good prospect" that he dealt.

You also told us countless times that Sbisa couldn't improve as a hockey player at this point, but he absolutely did over the course of the season. No he's not good enough to cover for a declining Kevin Bieksa, but Sbisa did show an over all improvement. Won't be acknowledged by the anti-Benning crowd though cuz it doesn't fit the narrative.

As for Clendening, jury is still out. Big concern for me is his lack of footspeed. A transition tyoe defender that isn't at least a plus skater is a bit of a long shot.

Still when you look at the NHL roster moves - Garrison out, Clendening in - it's a move in the right direction, even with Garrison being the much better player at this point. Our roster was/is filled with plodding middle-pairing dmen with little to no offensive creativity. Clendening is arguably the most offensively creative blueliner that saw time with the big club this season, and even Sbisa, for all his warts, is right there with Weber as the best skater we have from the back end.

Too early for any definitive declarations, but I'm optimistic with the direction Benning is taking the team as a whole, and the blueline specifically. We will see in a couple of years whether the constant griping was justified.
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Maybe someone who knows more on advance stats can look at this, but I disagree. Who most certainly did not improve. He was the cause for goals against just the same in the second half of the season as the first. He did not pass my eye test in the second half that I can assure you. Hell he was on for like the first 5 or six goals against us in the playoffs many of them his direct fault.

I think KB takes too much crap around here. I think he would be fine if not paired with Sbisa. No he is not the guy he use to be, but Sbisa does not help him... at all.
 
Clenny looked pretty solid in his NHL stint this year, but not so much going back to the AHL. I am always nervous with a player like this, hopefully he is ready to make the next step when he is penciled into a roster spot.
 
alternate said:
How are those his only 3 moves?

He also acquired Pedan for cheap. He's shown a ton of promise.

He also drafted the "very good prospect" that he dealt.

You also told us countless times that Sbisa couldn't improve as a hockey player at this point, but he absolutely did over the course of the season. No he's not good enough to cover for a declining Kevin Bieksa, but Sbisa did show an over all improvement. Won't be acknowledged by the anti-Benning crowd though cuz it doesn't fit the narrative.

As for Clendening, jury is still out. Big concern for me is his lack of footspeed. A transition tyoe defender that isn't at least a plus skater is a bit of a long shot.

Still when you look at the NHL roster moves - Garrison out, Clendening in - it's a move in the right direction, even with Garrison being the much better player at this point. Our roster was/is filled with plodding middle-pairing dmen with little to no offensive creativity. Clendening is arguably the most offensively creative blueliner that saw time with the big club this season, and even Sbisa, for all his warts, is right there with Weber as the best skater we have from the back end.

Too early for any definitive declarations, but I'm optimistic with the direction Benning is taking the team as a whole, and the blueline specifically. We will see in a couple of years whether the constant griping was justified.
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Sbisa didn't improve. He was crap in the first half, marginally better crap in the 2nd half, unplayable crap in the playoffs. He's an 800k 7th defender we've somehow given $3.6 million to. Take away EN goals, and he was somehow a -16 on a 101-point team.

http://canucksarmy.com/2015/3/19/should-the-canucks-re-sign-luca-sbisa

Honestly, how can you be 'optimistic' with the direction? He's traded away one very good player for next to nothing, picked up one horrendous player and then overpaid him, and picked up a prospect that even you say has major skating concerns and isn't doing well in the AHL.

Pedan is a massive grey area because he's had his 2nd long PCS layoff in less than two years. It's really impossible to say anything about that move right now. On one hand, the game reports for the 20 games before he was hurt were very encouraging. On the other hand, picking up a fighter with concussion issues is a dangerous game and this had to have been a likely result.
 
racerjoe said:
Maybe someone who knows more on advance stats can look at this, but I disagree. Who most certainly did not improve. He was the cause for goals against just the same in the second half of the season as the first. He did not pass my eye test in the second half that I can assure you. Hell he was on for like the first 5 or six goals against us in the playoffs many of them his direct fault.

I think KB takes too much crap around here. I think he would be fine if not paired with Sbisa. No he is not the guy he use to be, but Sbisa does not help him... at all.
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Sbisa's season was certainly up and down and didn't finish on a high note, but the over all trend was in the right direction. show3d stretches of very solid play. We will see how next season goes, but I expect this time next year the majority of posters that are open minded on Sbisa will have a positive outlook on the remainder of his contract.

As for Bieksa, KB had m0re than double the cap hit, and Sbisa was still a RFA (ie young). Shouldn't the high paid veteran be expected to be the rock of the pairing?

On paper, Sbisa-Clendening is a good match...defensive dman that can skate and play physical paired with an under sizes but fiesty partner with good offensive instincts. And all for about the same cap hit as Bieksa alone (not sure Clendening's cap hit off top of my head). Fingers crossed Sbisa's play becomes more stable and Clendening gets fleeter of foot.
 
alternate said:
Sbisa's season was certainly up and down and didn't finish on a high note, but the over all trend was in the right direction. show3d stretches of very solid play. We will see how next season goes, but I expect this time next year the majority of posters that are open minded on Sbisa will have a positive outlook on the remainder of his contract.

As for Bieksa, KB had m0re than double the cap hit, and Sbisa was still a RFA (ie young). Shouldn't the high paid veteran be expected to be the rock of the pairing?

On paper, Sbisa-Clendening is a good match...defensive dman that can skate and play physical paired with an under sizes but fiesty partner with good offensive instincts. And all for about the same cap hit as Bieksa alone (not sure Clendening's cap hit off top of my head). Fingers crossed Sbisa's play becomes more stable and Clendening gets fleeter of foot.
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Sbisa isn't a 'defensive defender'. He's literally one of the couple worst defensive defenders in the NHL.

He's had 7 years to improve. He still stinks. I don't see that changing in the next year, unless they sacrifice Tanev on a babysitting mission. He's just a dumb, dumb hockey player.
 
alternate said:
How are those his only 3 moves?

He also acquired Pedan for cheap. He's shown a ton of promise.

He also drafted the "very good prospect" that he dealt.

You also told us countless times that Sbisa couldn't improve as a hockey player at this point, but he absolutely did over the course of the season. No he's not good enough to cover for a declining Kevin Bieksa, but Sbisa did show an over all improvement. Won't be acknowledged by the anti-Benning crowd though cuz it doesn't fit the narrative.

As for Clendening, jury is still out. Big concern for me is his lack of footspeed. A transition tyoe defender that isn't at least a plus skater is a bit of a long shot.

Still when you look at the NHL roster moves - Garrison out, Clendening in - it's a move in the right direction, even with Garrison being the much better player at this point. Our roster was/is filled with plodding middle-pairing dmen with little to no offensive creativity. Clendening is arguably the most offensively creative blueliner that saw time with the big club this season, and even Sbisa, for all his warts, is right there with Weber as the best skater we have from the back end.

Too early for any definitive declarations, but I'm optimistic with the direction Benning is taking the team as a whole, and the blueline specifically. We will see in a couple of years whether the constant griping was justified.
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Clendenning is just as plodding a skater as Garrison.

I didn't have a problem with the trade to acquire him at the time and still don't, what I didn't understand was sending him down.

The trade looks like a waste now (I'm not very high on Forsling anyways) since he's still 8th or 9th on the depth chart.
 
MS said:
Sbisa isn't a 'defensive defender'. He's literally one of the couple worst defensive defenders in the NHL.

He's had 7 years to improve. He still stinks. I don't see that changing in the next year, unless they sacrifice Tanev on a babysitting mission. He's just a dumb, dumb hockey player.
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So you've said once or twice. You're track record on evaluating defencemen speaks for itself (waive Edler, lol!) and until there's actually more hockey played by the player, there's nothing more to say on Sbisa. I will agree he's going to be a guy that needs the right fit partner wise to excel, much like Edler, Bieksa and even Garrison.

Is Clendening that guy that will turn Sbisdenning into a viable 3rd pairing? We will see come fall.
 
arsmaster said:
Clendenning is just as plodding a skater as Garrison.

I didn't have a problem with the trade to acquire him at the time and still don't, what I didn't understand was sending him down.

The trade looks like a waste now (I'm not very high on Forsling anyways) since he's still 8th or 9th on the depth chart.
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Agreed on the skating comparison, but the offensive instincts aren't comparable in the slightest. Clendening definitely needs to improve his skating, but the positive I take from his acquisition is that Benning seems to recognize the need for creativity from the blue line. I'd prefer it to be packaged in a better skater, but it's an element that has been sorely lacking since Ehrhoff was let go.

Can't rebuild a roster in a single offseason, but I do appreciate that Benning---on this transaction anyway---prioritized skill.
 
From a Hawsks standpoint, two schools of thought on Clendening.....first, although he was a decent prospect and they were gong to lose him on waivers next year anyway, so better to get something for a guy they drafted in the second round....second, they saw the same holes in his game that are now apparent...kind of undersized d-man who's a plodding skater and dropping like a rock in their prospect pool....have an uncomfortable feeling that Forsling will be in the Hawks lineup someday.....the rich seem to find a way to get richer, while others troll for marginal prospects.:(
 
alternate said:
Agreed on the skating comparison, but the offensive instincts aren't comparable in the slightest. Clendening definitely needs to improve his skating, but the positive I take from his acquisition is that Benning seems to recognize the need for creativity from the blue line. I'd prefer it to be packaged in a better skater, but it's an element that has been sorely lacking since Ehrhoff was let go.

Can't rebuild a roster in a single offseason, but I do appreciate that Benning---on this transaction anyway---prioritized skill.
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Garrison gets results though. THat should be all that matters.

I can't really see how Sbisa nor Dorsett fit the skill "priority" either. Anyways, here's hoping the can get a decent prospect for Clendenning or he can fill in as the Weber going forward. It's unfortunate we'll likely be losing Weber for very little because Clenny needs to make the club, because I feel that Clenny's ceiling is Weber, with worse skating.
 
alternate said:
So you've said once or twice. You're track record on evaluating defencemen speaks for itself (waive Edler, lol!) and until there's actually more hockey played by the player, there's nothing more to say on Sbisa. I will agree he's going to be a guy that needs the right fit partner wise to excel, much like Edler, Bieksa and even Garrison.

Is Clendening that guy that will turn Sbisdenning into a viable 3rd pairing? We will see come fall.
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Two organizations have played him with loads of guys and he's stunk with all of them. If someone plays him with a Doughty or something, I'm sure he'll look a bit better. That doesn't mean he's good.

As for Edler, if we'd moved him out and signed my preferred UFA target (Stralman) we'd have lost nothing. If, say, Tanev has a next two seasons as poor as Edler had and had 5 more years left on a contract, I'd be wanting him dumped too, much as I like him now.

And outside of Edler, I've been pretty spot-on on every defender to come through this team in the last decade. So yeah, my track record does speak for itself.
 
MS said:
His 3 moves so far have been:

1) dumping Garrison for a pick.
2) picking up Sbisa and giving him a ludicrous deal.
3) trading a very good prospect for a player struggling defensively in the AHL and who is waiver-eligible next year.

The first two are outright terrible and the third looks to be failing. Coupled with how the goaltending situation was botched ... it's painful.

Hopefully we're not stupid enough to deal Hamhuis ... but it wouldn't surprise me.
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This was the worst. Kinda funny when you hear what type of d-man the Canucks need and it's basically a description of Garrison:

Sizable, decently defensive game, can play on the PP

I know he's not the biggest, nor hits the net as much as he should, but if the was both those things, he wouldn't be the #3-4 dman we need.

If Kassian or Hamhuis go out the door without a significant return, I'm cheering for another team. Can't make sense from these moves.
 
MS said:
Sbisa isn't a 'defensive defender'. He's literally one of the couple worst defensive defenders in the NHL.

He's had 7 years to improve. He still stinks. I don't see that changing in the next year, unless they sacrifice Tanev on a babysitting mission. He's just a dumb, dumb hockey player.
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What a ridiculous statement:help:

You do realize most defenseman don't come into their own until their late twenties.

On AC.......Does anyone else see a Dan Boyle like resemblance to his game? Odds are against it, but the first time I saw him in the world juniors and following him after I'm really happy JB is taking a gamble on Clendening. Has some very Boyle like characteristics IMO.
 
Honestly, hitting the net as a dman isn't even all that important. Shot attempts that are blocked wear down the opposition and the ones that miss the net create scrambles. Just having the ability to fire it 100MPH is as valuable as getting a 80MPH through to the net IMO.

Yeah, it'd be nice if he scored 15+ a year, but him just shooting creates so much pressure on the defending team that it still contributes.

I'll take the guy who gets his shot past the first defender and misses the net over the guy who thumbs shin pads most of the time.
 
Are we still on about Garrison? We needed to re allocate money to strengthen our biggest weaknesses......Goal scoring and goaltending. Considering we went from 25th to 8th I think it worked.
 
sting101 said:
What a ridiculous statement:help:

You do realize most defenseman don't come into their own until their late twenties.

On AC.......Does anyone else see a Dan Boyle like resemblance to his game? Odds are against it, but the first time I saw him in the world juniors and following him after I'm really happy JB is taking a gamble on Clendening. Has some very Boyle like characteristics IMO.
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I know exactly how defenders develop. And poor 3rd-pairing bangers don't suddenly become good after 500 NHL games. And even a substantial improvement would only turn him into a serviceable #6 guy ... so he'd still be a hopelessly overpaid negative value asset.

Dan Boyle has lost some wheels as he's approached 40, but the younger Boyle was top-class skater. Puck skills might be similar, but that skating difference is huge.
 
alternate said:
So you've said once or twice. You're track record on evaluating defencemen speaks for itself (waive Edler, lol!) and until there's actually more hockey played by the player, there's nothing more to say on Sbisa. I will agree he's going to be a guy that needs the right fit partner wise to excel, much like Edler, Bieksa and even Garrison.

Is Clendening that guy that will turn Sbisdenning into a viable 3rd pairing? We will see come fall.
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Do you still think Keith Ballard is worth $3M+? Because if he's not then I guess your track record speaks for itself as well.

We better hope that Clendenning is a viable 3rd pairing guy next year. Though babysitting Sbisa and getting him to excel is no small task.
 
sting101 said:
Are we still on about Garrison? We needed to re allocate money to strengthen our biggest weaknesses......Goal scoring and goaltending. Considering we went from 25th to 8th I think it worked.
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We did not need to trade Garrison to sign Vrbata. We could have freed up money in other areas. As with Miller, was/is he even needed ? Last regime didn't think so, and neither do I. Lack's performance reinforces this and now we're getting a bad return because we created another goalie log-jam.

This team with Lack, Garrison, Vbrata, Fosling, cap space VS Miller, Lack, Vey, Clendening (who I don't think we would have acquired if we had another d-man) and Vrbata

Which of those makes more sense?

Clendening MAY turn out to be a good dman, but I haven't seen the two things I look for in a young dman. Either the raw materials (size, speed, strength) or the mental game (vision, composure, ability to be coached) so I'm just confused at the series of moves that got him here.

EDIT: And going from 28th to 8th in a year that was an anomaly isn't worth mentioning.
 
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