Fat Tony
Fire Benning
- Nov 28, 2011
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I think he's referring to free agent and trade targets. He was hit and miss. The misses really stood out.
Adam Clendening
- Thread starter BoHorvat 53
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I think he's referring to free agent and trade targets. He was hit and miss. The misses really stood out.
Barney Gumble
Registered User
- Jan 2, 2007
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Schroeder was a "home run swing" type of pick (boom or bust & no inbetween). It was what it was....
Guy couldn't even make it the level of ECHL for even one game. There's bad and there's craptacular.
Eddy Punch Clock
Jack Adams 2028
Pro scouting refers to guys who already playing professional hockey, folks. None of the draft pick discussion is even relevant to how good Gillis' pro scouting was (and like Verviticus, I think it was fine. People were largely happy when Booth and Ballard were acquired, and those guys seem to be the main reason people criticize Gillis).
Sanguinetti has been scoring in the NHL for Utica and is a fair bit taller (although not heavier if, again, IMDB is to be trusted).
I don't mind the acquisition for futures... I just don't see why fans endlessly trash Weber but immediately want to plug Clendening into the lineup.
How is he going to be an upgrade on Weber, again? Weber also racked up points in the NHL, is the same size (in fact a bit heavier if Hockeydb is to be trusted), and has some years of NHL experience.
Sanguinetti has been scoring in the NHL for Utica and is a fair bit taller (although not heavier if, again, IMDB is to be trusted).
I don't mind the acquisition for futures... I just don't see why fans endlessly trash Weber but immediately want to plug Clendening into the lineup.
I don't know, I like to chalk some of it out to developing. Who is to say any of those players wouldn't look better under different teams? Schroeder is an example of a guy that seemed to excel under Mac T and flounder under others, or would Jensen be in a better spot now if he was with Detroit?
I do like the trade, I was really just nitpicking on this comment. People seem to not remember what things were and make them what fits the current narritive.
I love that word.
This is also very true, and also shows that sometimes a pick is so bad that you can't even get your hands on him to screw him up.
DCantheDDad
DisplacedNuckfan
He was talking about Pro scouting (people already drafted), you are talking about draft scouting. Different things.
Just searched and HF had Clendening ranked as the Hawks fourth top prospect in the fall of 2014:
4. Adam Clendening, D, 7.0C
Drafted 2nd round, 36th overall, 2011
Now with two consecutive AHL All-Star worthy seasons under his belt, Adam Clendening remains Chicago’s most intriguing offensive defenseman in the prospect pool. He is not shy about playing the body but is still developing his defensive zone play. While the 21-year-old may not be as well-rounded a defensive prospect as Johns, Clendening’s offensive instincts and power-play ability will make him a candidate for a call-up in Chicago should the NHL-level depth take a hit.
4. Adam Clendening, D, 7.0C
Drafted 2nd round, 36th overall, 2011
Now with two consecutive AHL All-Star worthy seasons under his belt, Adam Clendening remains Chicago’s most intriguing offensive defenseman in the prospect pool. He is not shy about playing the body but is still developing his defensive zone play. While the 21-year-old may not be as well-rounded a defensive prospect as Johns, Clendening’s offensive instincts and power-play ability will make him a candidate for a call-up in Chicago should the NHL-level depth take a hit.
Ah, my mistake.
I agree Gillis was pretty good on that front.
Ehrhoff on his own was a home run.
http://www.csnchicago.com/blackhawks/clendening-aims-follow-path-former-defensive-partners
Clendening would love to be with the Chicago Blackhawks full time; for now, however, he’s here as part of the team’s prospect camp this week. Clendening had a great season with the IceHogs, recording 12 goals and 44 assists in 70 games. The season earned Clendening first-team, all-star recognition in the AHL. With his second-team all-star selection in 2012-13, Clendening became the first AHL defenseman to make all-star teams in his first two seasons since Dan Boyle (1999 and 2000).
“I’ve played two years in the American League but that time there really helped me, I think,†he said. “I worked on my defensive side of the puck, got to play against the other team’s best players for two years and some of those guys are now playing in the NHL.â€
“I’ve kind of taken what I learned there and applied it to my game to play against the other team’s top line, which you only learn from or else you won’t play or you get scored on,†he said. “It’s defiitely come a long way.â€
Clendening would love to be with the Chicago Blackhawks full time; for now, however, he’s here as part of the team’s prospect camp this week. Clendening had a great season with the IceHogs, recording 12 goals and 44 assists in 70 games. The season earned Clendening first-team, all-star recognition in the AHL. With his second-team all-star selection in 2012-13, Clendening became the first AHL defenseman to make all-star teams in his first two seasons since Dan Boyle (1999 and 2000).
“I’ve played two years in the American League but that time there really helped me, I think,†he said. “I worked on my defensive side of the puck, got to play against the other team’s best players for two years and some of those guys are now playing in the NHL.â€
“I’ve kind of taken what I learned there and applied it to my game to play against the other team’s top line, which you only learn from or else you won’t play or you get scored on,†he said. “It’s defiitely come a long way.â€
Pretty much. Hopefully he will prove better than Weber but right now there is zero evidence that he's a better player than Weber or Sanguinetti.
It likely comes down to a combination of both (scouting v development) however it is nearly impossible to disentangle the two since you never know how a player like Schroeder would have developed in another organization.
But maybe Benning has identified the same issue as it might explain his recent apporach of acquiring nearly-developed kids from strong organizations (LA, Chicago) rather than developing them internally. Certainly in both Vey and Clendening we have acquired two kids that have developed through the AHL and put up numbers that we haven't seen any Canucks prospect do in the last 10-15 years. I mean, if Forsling had played another year in Sweden then come over as a 20 year old and put up 46 points in his first AHL season we'd be hyping this kid like no tomorrow. Hell, we're still waiting for the forward that we drafted 7 spots earlier than Clendening to put up those kind of numbers (he might do it this year to be fair). It's why I don't mind this approach, even though I was a fan of the Forsling pick.
Jimson Hogarth*
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- Nov 21, 2013
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No, it was bad. Bernier, Ballard, Booth, sturm, and so many others. just garbage.
Hamhuis, Ehrhoff, Garrison, Samuelsson, Malhotra, Higgins, Lapierre, Stanton, Matthias, Markstrom. Probably missed a bunch of others. I think we had more hits than failures.
Jimson Hogarth*
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- Nov 21, 2013
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Matthias and Matkstrom? Just no. Lapierre? I guess.
Hamhuis & Malholtra were hometown guys that made it pretty clear they wanted to play here. Malholtra was practising as a FA in Vancouver the offseason previous and making sure any reporter who was listening knew he wanted a contract in Vancouver
Booth was good for us when we acquired him (remember the AMEX line?) until he suffered a billion injuries (I think it was a knee-on-knee with some Avs player that started the downward spiral of his playing ability).
And he was far from bad. Ehrhoff, Malhotra, Hamhuis, Torres, Higgins, Lapierre, Richardson, Stanton, etc (and Tanev+Lack if you consider that pro scouting, they were undrafted).
Edit: Tiranis beat me to it
Jimson Hogarth*
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Blackhawkswincup
RIP Fugu
vanuck
Now with 100% less Benning!
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If David Booth is your prime example i rest my case
Yeah, ignore that list of players in my post and focus on Booth. And Gillis should have known that Booth would have been kneed a couple of months after acquiring him. Genius.
NoShowWilly
Registered User
don't forget Demitra and Sundin.
Demitra gave us a 53 point season in 2008-2009. Mats gave us 28 in 41 and was ppg in the playoffs.
Not really scouting anything there but both nice to have.
Demitra gave us a 53 point season in 2008-2009. Mats gave us 28 in 41 and was ppg in the playoffs.
Not really scouting anything there but both nice to have.
A very solid list. But not as strong post 2011, IMO.
Matthias and Markstrom were the return on Luongo. Not a great deal, IMO and we had to retain salary.
Jimson Hogarth*
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- Nov 21, 2013
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Yeah, ignore that list of players in my post and focus on Booth. And Gillis should have known that Booth would have been kneed a couple of months after acquiring him. Genius.
Its so rare your opposition makes your case for you though
Gillis' results were mixed, at best. The fact is when it came to targetting top 6 forwards and top 4 dmen, Gillis and his scouting failed this team hard. Ballard, Booth, Sturm? Not great if he thought these were the solutions to the Canucks lack of talent woes.
Think this trade works well for both teams.
While Forsling had a great WJC, he's still a ways away from the NHL. Clendening has had some excellent seasons in the AHL and seems like he needs the opportunity to shine, as he's already fighting for a spot on a cup contending team and was passed on the depth chart recently. The worry of course is that his defensive game or ability to play at NHL speed isn't up to par and he becomes another Weber or Sanguinetti. The good news is that he's still only 22 and he'll likely get the opportunity to play at the NHL level. However, this is his third AHL season and the time is now for him to prove he can play at the NHL level, and the Blackhawks being a cup contender can't afford to go through growing pains with him. Maybe when Forsling is 22-23, they might have an opening on defense so I can see why this would work for them.
Pretty similar to Vey. A player who's already been developed and succeeded at the AHL level but not getting the opportunity due to playing in the organization of a cup contender. With our lack of prospects in that 21-24 age range (particularly ones who have a successful track record in the AHL) we kind of need to take a shot at some players like these.
While Forsling had a great WJC, he's still a ways away from the NHL. Clendening has had some excellent seasons in the AHL and seems like he needs the opportunity to shine, as he's already fighting for a spot on a cup contending team and was passed on the depth chart recently. The worry of course is that his defensive game or ability to play at NHL speed isn't up to par and he becomes another Weber or Sanguinetti. The good news is that he's still only 22 and he'll likely get the opportunity to play at the NHL level. However, this is his third AHL season and the time is now for him to prove he can play at the NHL level, and the Blackhawks being a cup contender can't afford to go through growing pains with him. Maybe when Forsling is 22-23, they might have an opening on defense so I can see why this would work for them.
Pretty similar to Vey. A player who's already been developed and succeeded at the AHL level but not getting the opportunity due to playing in the organization of a cup contender. With our lack of prospects in that 21-24 age range (particularly ones who have a successful track record in the AHL) we kind of need to take a shot at some players like these.
Its so rare your opposition makes your case for you though
Gillis' results were mixed, at best. The fact is when it came to targetting top 6 forwards and top 4 dmen, Gillis and his scouting failed this team hard. Ballard, Booth, Sturm? Not great if he thought these were the solutions to the Canucks lack of talent woes.
Top 6F: Demitra, Sundin, Samuelsson
Top 4D: Ehrhoff, Hamhuis, Garrison, Tanev
seems like there were far more hits than failures in those areas.
Sturm was a bottom 6 stop gap on a one year deal, I don't see why we should even discuss him.
Jimson Hogarth*
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- Nov 21, 2013
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Tanev wasn't a pro-scouting move.
Maybe because Gillis' failures were so monumental and strapped the team with such horrible contracts like Booths and Ballards, it just seems worse than it actually was!
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