Speculation: Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap/Lines etc. Part LXXVIII (It's Working! Let's Fix It.)

[OV Rocks]

Penguins don't have 2 Malkin's.

Crosby > Backstrom (didn't look that way in the last Playoffs though, Backstrom dominated him)
Malkin > Kuznetsov
Bonino > Eller
Cullen = Beagle

Kessel < Ovechkin
Hornqvist < Oshie
Hagelin < Johansson

Any of Penguins remaining wingers < Williams
Any of Penguins remaining wingers < Burakovsky
Sheary > Connolly

Penguins 4th line < Capitals 4th line

Your point is ridiculously flawed. You essentially just take out Ovechkin by adding another Malkin to the Penguins line-up.

The intention of Malkin and Ovechkin is to show the Caps only really have one elite player that is better than theirs. The Penguins depth is compared to ours is insane. Why would you not want to add a player that can improve the chances of beating the penguins. In a 7 game series their depth takes over, just look why we have not made it out of the second round, everyone has more depth. A player like Ducehene checks all the boxes and their isnt a player in Hershey or draft picks that I wouldn't give up for him. Speed, depth, scoring, playmaking, everything we need for when Kuznetsov, Burakovsky, Eller, Oshie, or Williams, etc. don't show up in the playoffs. Crosby can not show up for an entire series and the Pens could still win because of Kessel and Malkin. If Ovechkin doesn't show up who takes over for him????

Add on top of that the rumor of the Pens looking into Landeskog and the Caps have to add someone. Why were the Yankees so dominate in baseball, they were aggressive and when the Red Sox made a splash trade the Yankees made a tidal wave move. They knew that to get to the World Series they had to beat the Red Sox. Whatever happened after that was won on momentum.

 

[g00n]

The sports world is littered with "dream teams" that didn't do squat. There's more to building a winner than cobbling together a roster full of expensive players or stat heroes.

 

[trick9]

The intention of Malkin and Ovechkin is to show the Caps only really have one elite player that is better than theirs. The Penguins depth is compared to ours is insane. Why would you not want to add a player that can improve the chances of beating the penguins. In a 7 game series their depth takes over, just look why we have not made it out of the second round, everyone has more depth. A player like Ducehene checks all the boxes and their isnt a player in Hershey or draft picks that I wouldn't give up for him. Speed, depth, scoring, playmaking, everything we need for when Kuznetsov, Burakovsky, Eller, Oshie, or Williams, etc. don't show up in the playoffs. Crosby can not show up for an entire series and the Pens could still win because of Kessel and Malkin. If Ovechkin doesn't show up who takes over for him????

Add on top of that the rumor of the Pens looking into Landeskog and the Caps have to add someone. Why were the Yankees so dominate in baseball, they were aggressive and when the Red Sox made a splash trade the Yankees made a tidal wave move. They knew that to get to the World Series they had to beat the Red Sox. Whatever happened after that was won on momentum.

So why did you leave Ovechkin entirely off of your other point? Or Justin Williams? You know, the guy whose had more points since the start of '15-'16 season than any other forward from the Penguins roster than Crosby, Malkin or Kessel.

I hope the Penguins add Landeskog. You are entirely taking out of the question the fact that Avalanche aren't giving him for free. If the Penguins want to trade one of their top-4 D's for a winger then by all means do that. Unless i'm entirely wrong the Penguins would need to decimate their team to add that 6m contract.

I think the Capitals scoring depth is on par with the Penguins atleast, maybe even better. If they were to add a key piece, i would definitely hope for that to be a top-4 D.

 

[OV Rocks]

So why did you leave Ovechkin entirely off of your other point? Or Justin Williams? You know, the guy whose had more points since the start of '15-'16 season than any other forward from the Penguins roster than Crosby, Malkin or Kessel.

I hope the Penguins add Landeskog. You are entirely taking out of the question the fact that Avalanche aren't giving him for free. If the Penguins want to trade one of their top-4 D's for a winger then by all means do that. Unless i'm entirely wrong the Penguins would need to decimate their team to add that 6m contract.

I think the Capitals scoring depth is on par with the Penguins atleast, maybe even better. If they were to add a key piece, i would definitely hope for that to be a top-4 D.

The difference between the Caps scoring depth and the Pens is the fact that the Penguins depth is established. Everyone knows Crosby and Malkin are going to get their points. Kessel is going to put up numbers, the third line is going to push the tempo. The Caps are hoping that Kuzentsov shows up, Burakovksy shows up, the third line scores, Williams keeps scoring (unrealistic pace), and that Johannson can be counted on to produce points. Their is alot of hope for the Caps while the Pens know where their scoring is coming from. And clearly after last years run D-depth is not a worry for the Pens.

I am happy with this team and I think that it is even better than last year but if we have to play the Penguins in a 7 game series I don't know how they beat them 4 times. This roster wins a cup if they avoid playing the Penguins in the playoffs but playing the penguins always scares me

 

[trick9]

The difference between the Caps scoring depth and the Pens is the fact that the Penguins depth is established. Everyone knows Crosby and Malkin are going to get their points. Kessel is going to put up numbers, the third line is going to push the tempo. The Caps are hoping that Kuzentsov shows up, Burakovksy shows up, the third line scores, Williams keeps scoring (unrealistic pace), and that Johannson can be counted on to produce points. Their is alot of hope for the Caps while the Pens know where their scoring is coming from. And clearly after last years run D-depth is not a worry for the Pens.

I am happy with this team and I think that it is even better than last year but if we have to play the Penguins in a 7 game series I don't know how they beat them 4 times. This roster wins a cup if they avoid playing the Penguins in the playoffs but playing the penguins always scares me

Their forward depth is so incredible that they are 2 injuries away from dressing Tom Sestito again.

Penguins had Crosby struggling (still think it's the match-up because Backstrom shut down Giroux aswell) but pretty much everyone from their forwards played way over their heads and they just barely beat the Capitals. Whereas Capitals had lots of guys struggling and still got close to beating them. The biggest issue this team has with the Penguins is mental. They self-destruct far too quickly when things aren't going their way. Pretty much every time Penguins beat this team it's by quick-strike offense when the Capitals melt-down.

Penguins are a scary team, sure. But i don't know where you got the idea from this seasons games that they are unbeatable. Capitals dominated them for most of the opening night game and only lost in the SO when Fleury was standing on his head. They had 40+ shots on him at their barn.

Next 2 games where not even remotely close. Capitals dominated them and the combined score were 12-3. Even that's flattering towards the Penguins who got their goals when the games was already over.

Last night Capitals dominated them for over half of the game before they had a meltdown.

Penguins are the team that needs to count on Capitals melting down at key times to stand a chance of beating them 4 times, if this season is anything to look at. When both teams play their game, Capitals have been dominant and the Penguins only chance is through PP's.

 

[OV Rocks]

Their forward depth is so incredible that they are 2 injuries away from dressing Tom Sestito again.

Penguins had Crosby struggling (still think it's the match-up because Backstrom shut down Giroux aswell) but pretty much everyone from their forwards played way over their heads and they just barely beat the Capitals. Whereas Capitals had lots of guys struggling and still got close to beating them. The biggest issue this team has with the Penguins is mental. They self-destruct far too quickly when things aren't going their way. Pretty much every time Penguins beat this team it's by quick-strike offense when the Capitals melt-down.

Penguins are a scary team, sure. But i don't know where you got the idea from this seasons games that they are unbeatable. Capitals dominated them for most of the opening night game and only lost in the SO when Fleury was standing on his head. They had 40+ shots on him at their barn.

Next 2 games where not even remotely close. Capitals dominated them and the combined score were 12-3. Even that's flattering towards the Penguins who got their goals when the games was already over.

Last night Capitals dominated them for over half of the game before they had a meltdown.

Penguins are the team that needs to count on Capitals melting down at key times to stand a chance of beating them 4 times, if this season is anything to look at. When both teams play their game, Capitals have been dominant and the Penguins only chance is through PP's.

And the Caps dressed Liam O'Brien already this season (although who doesn't love that kid). I just think it would be extremely complacent of this team to be comfortable going into the playoffs. Realistically the roster from last year is now different. Ovi-Nicky-Oshie will always be solid, the second line is good but very streaky with Jojo down right now Kuzy trending up but a down year and Williams on fire. Streaky is amazing or awful in the playoffs. The third line really scares me for the playoffs. Burakovsky was brilliant as a "Killer B" but disappeared last year I still can't figure out Eller good or bad and Brett Connolly being on the roster still is an over-achievement for him. It would be very nice to add a scoring third liner, (Kessel, cough cough), to really solidify this team. Like I said this roster is built to win a Cup and can beat anyone in the league in 7 games, just maybe not Pittsburgh.

Why do people put granite counter tops in their kitchen? It's not really necessary their counters are still probably good but when it comes time to sell your house it adds value. Just like adding another goal scorer.

 

[trick9]

And the Caps dressed Liam O'Brien already this season (although who doesn't love that kid). I just think it would be extremely complacent of this team to be comfortable going into the playoffs. Realistically the roster from last year is now different. Ovi-Nicky-Oshie will always be solid, the second line is good but very streaky with Jojo down right now Kuzy trending up but a down year and Williams on fire. Streaky is amazing or awful in the playoffs. The third line really scares me for the playoffs. Burakovsky was brilliant as a "Killer B" but disappeared last year I still can't figure out Eller good or bad and Brett Connolly being on the roster still is an over-achievement for him. It would be very nice to add a scoring third liner, (Kessel, cough cough), to really solidify this team. Like I said this roster is built to win a Cup and can beat anyone in the league in 7 games, just maybe not Pittsburgh.

Why do people put granite counter tops in their kitchen? It's not really necessary their counters are still probably good but when it comes time to sell your house it adds value. Just like adding another goal scorer.

For one game... Sestito has been close to regular on the Penguins roster (8 games and lots of games as the extra forward).

I'm not advocating against adding a player. I just think their scoring depth is already one of the best in the league with several guys still have lots of potential for improvement. Especially on the wings where they are already much better than the Penguins. It's not easy to upgrade on the center spot either unless you are willing to give up on Eller already.

Top-4 two-way D would be assets much better spent IMO. I don't want to see Orlov against top competition or Chorney in the line-up when the Playoffs begin. Orlov has been solid on that role but the defensive blunders are still there. Besides, i think he could be a dominant asset to have on the 3rd pairing. That would allow them to balance the minutes a bit more too.

 

[g00n]

Why do people put granite counter tops in their kitchen? It's not really necessary their counters are still probably good but when it comes time to sell your house it adds value. Just like adding another goal scorer.

lol wut?

It's a salary cap league. You don't just pile on frills to "add value" to your team. You try to get the best value for what you can spend and are able to acquire/retain.

Who exactly do you think this team should add, what are the pros and cons, and how are they going to pull it off? You can't just throw picks and prospects at CO for Duchene (a 3rd overall pick in 2009) and somehow fit him under the cap at $6M for the next seasons. Where does he play? Is he an upgrade over Oshie, Nick, Kuzy or Williams (C or RW)? Is this all about spending $6M and unlimited picks/roster players to upgrade Eller because we're not SURE he'll produce?

No way.

 

[trick9]

lol wut?

It's a salary cap league. You don't just pile on frills to "add value" to your team. You try to get the best value for what you can spend and are able to acquire/retain.

Who exactly do you think this team should add, what are the pros and cons, and how are they going to pull it off? You can't just throw picks and prospects at CO for Duchene (a 3rd overall pick in 2009) and somehow fit him under the cap at $6M for the next seasons. Where does he play? Is he an upgrade over Oshie, Nick, Kuzy or Williams (C or RW)? Is this all about spending $6M and unlimited picks/roster players to upgrade Eller because we're not SURE he'll produce?

No way.

This.

Matt Duchene is way too unrealistic target because of Colorado's needs. They will want one of your top-4 D's in return. Carlson and Niskanen are non-starters for me, and Alzner would leave us brutal on the left-side. Then you have Orlov but that move would also need tons of other assets like Vrana, 1st round pick and some salary moving the other way. Not to mention the hole it would leave on your defense.

 

[um]

yes Duchene is unrealistic, that's the point of a rental like Vanek that cost no roster players.

 

[g00n]

yes Duchene is unrealistic, that's the point of a rental like Vanek that cost no roster players.

Are we bumping Connolly down for him, and somehow fitting 2.6M under the cap? If we're believers in fancy stats, Connolly is significantly better than Vanek this year. And BC may not have any NHL playoff experience but Vanek was last there 2 years ago and put up just 4 assists in 10 games.

 

[trick9]

Are we bumping Connolly down for him, and somehow fitting 2.6M under the cap? If we're believers in fancy stats, Connolly is significantly better than Vanek this year. And BC may not have any NHL playoff experience but Vanek was last there 2 years ago and put up just 4 assists in 10 games.

Thomas Vanek is a massive wild-card. In a right fit he's an absolute game-breaker that could end up as the 2nd best winger on this team. On the wrong fit he's a floater with questionable defensive game.

If it was just for Connolly and futures (assuming Detroit retains salary), i'd propably do it and have Vrana and the Hershey guys as the backups, but that seems highly unlikely. I don't think the Red Wings are giving up the season just yet.

 

[txpd]

that's right. Trotz didn't say that Pittsburgh's top 6 are better. He said they played better in this game. They were rested and desperate. He said the Caps top 6 looked tired.

 

[g00n]

Thomas Vanek is a massive wild-card. In a right fit he's an absolute game-breaker that could end up as the 2nd best winger on this team. On the wrong fit he's a floater with questionable defensive game.

If it was just for Connolly and futures (assuming Detroit retains salary), i'd propably do it and have Vrana and the Hershey guys as the backups, but that seems highly unlikely. I don't think the Red Wings are giving up the season just yet.

Right. What's the cost-benefit analysis? How much more certainty is Vanek giving you vs what you might be losing in cohesion and potential from a guy like Connolly (and anyone else affected by the change, good or bad)?

Does that even fit under the cap? I'm sure it's probably already been discussed but w/e

 

[Langway]

TSN's trade board. Plenty of RWs on that list that could be feasible with some salary retained provided the Caps don't run into many injuries in the next six weeks. I'd just as soon go with Connolly over Gionta or Stafford but Hansen stands out as a really good fit IMO should Vancouver sell.

 

[trick9]

Right. What's the cost-benefit analysis? How much more certainty is Vanek giving you vs what you might be losing in cohesion and potential from a guy like Connolly (and anyone else affected by the change, good or bad)?

Does that even fit under the cap? I'm sure it's probably already been discussed but w/e

Inconclusive.

Like i said, it's all about the fit when discussing guy like Vanek. When the fit is right, he's a near PPG winger in nearly any team he plays for. When it's not, he's a ghost out there that regularly needs great defensive players around him. A lot depend on who they'd play him with and what kind of role he would play in. If he gets to play around the net where he is at his best, rather than cycling the puck on the boards in the offensive zone, the fit might be there.

Biggest thing with Vanek can't be known right now though. He's an excellent PP player, arguably one of the best in the business along with Ovechkin and Backstrom. Let's say for an instance that Oshie (whose clearly been banged up) goes down, or the PP keeps struggling, he would be a perfect insurance there. Great fit IMO on the Oshie slot, or the Johansson slot. Propably wouldn't crack there, atleast not right away, but that could still help on the PP2 unit. Vanek has 2nd most goals on the PP since the full-season lockout, only behind Ovechkin.

Not 100% sure but assuming Detroit retained salary, he would fit under the cap.

It's a risky business with him. But if all goes well, it could be the difference between winning the Cup or not. Kings took the shot with Gaborik few years back and it striked gold. They missed with Lucic, though.

Either way it's better option that decimating a winning team for Matt Duchene.

 

[OV Rocks]

This.

Matt Duchene is way too unrealistic target because of Colorado's needs. They will want one of your top-4 D's in return. Carlson and Niskanen are non-starters for me, and Alzner would leave us brutal on the left-side. Then you have Orlov but that move would also need tons of other assets like Vrana, 1st round pick and some salary moving the other way. Not to mention the hole it would leave on your defense.

While I am a huge supporter of bringing on Matt Duchene he isn't the only player that fits the bill. There are several players that I think this team should look into, they are in a similar spot as to when we traded for Oshie. Duchene is the obvious number 1 candidate with others being players like Jordan Eberle who would help this team this year and also make losing Oshie in the off-season more bearable. Maybe swinging for a player like Bjugstad, Simmonds, or Ryan make a splash. This team needs playmaking, speed, and size. The game is passing players like Vanek or Hanzel by because they don't have the speed or net front play that is needed

 

[trick9]

While I am a huge supporter of bringing on Matt Duchene he isn't the only player that fits the bill. There are several players that I think this team should look into, they are in a similar spot as to when we traded for Oshie. Duchene is the obvious number 1 candidate with others being players like Jordan Eberle who would help this team this year and also make losing Oshie in the off-season more bearable. Maybe swinging for a player like Bjugstad, Simmonds, or Ryan make a splash. This team needs playmaking, speed, and size. The game is passing players like Vanek or Hanzel by because they don't have the speed or net front play that is needed

Thomas Vanek is a superior net-front player than either Bjugstad or Ryan, and that's not really close either. He's right on par with Simmonds as one of the best in the business. Hanzal is a better net-front player than either Bjugstad or Ryan too. Bjugstad is not a particularly fast player either. Ryan is severely overpaid and next to impossible to fit to this roster because of his salary. I can't see Senators retaining salary either because he has a long-term contract.

Simmonds is just another player who they'd have to break the bank to acquire.

 

[g00n]

Inconclusive.

Like i said, it's all about the fit when discussing guy like Vanek. When the fit is right, he's a near PPG winger in nearly any team he plays for. When it's not, he's a ghost out there that regularly needs great defensive players around him. A lot depend on who they'd play him with and what kind of role he would play in. If he gets to play around the net where he is at his best, rather than cycling the puck on the boards in the offensive zone, the fit might be there.

Biggest thing with Vanek can't be known right now though. He's an excellent PP player, arguably one of the best in the business along with Ovechkin and Backstrom. Let's say for an instance that Oshie (whose clearly been banged up) goes down, or the PP keeps struggling, he would be a perfect insurance there. Great fit IMO on the Oshie slot, or the Johansson slot. Propably wouldn't crack there, atleast not right away, but that could still help on the PP2 unit. Vanek has 2nd most goals on the PP since the full-season lockout, only behind Ovechkin.

Not 100% sure but assuming Detroit retained salary, he would fit under the cap.

It's a risky business with him. But if all goes well, it could be the difference between winning the Cup or not. Kings took the shot with Gaborik few years back and it striked gold. They missed with Lucic, though.

Either way it's better option that decimating a winning team for Matt Duchene.

Well the limitations are the concern. If we're talking about depth and upgrades in a system that now apparently involves just about everyone playing every inch of the ice as needed, it's hard to hang your hat on a guy who needs specific linemates and has to be in front of the net to avoid being a liability. It's a massive risk, imo. Not saying it won't work, but like you say it's a huge wildcard.

If we're going to shuffle the deck here it has to be for a CLEAR upgrade that can fill in all over the place like just about everyone else on the roster.

 

[twabby]

I know of a potential top 4 defenseman the Capitals could acquire for literally nothing: Nate Schmidt. IMO he's been the most improved player on the team and deserves a top 4 shot right now.

Here's a post I made about how Schmidt has been incredibly good at suppressing quality chances against

Yes he's had easier deployments than the other D in the top 4, but he's killing those easy deployments. When someone does an excellent job at an easier task it's time to give him a harder task and see if he can do it. Orlov was given the opportunity to get top 4 time after being sheltered last season and has been very good at it, time to give Schmidt the same opportunity.

I could honestly see an Alzner-Schmidt pairing being a good shutdown duo while ALSO being at 50% or better at shot-attempt differential. That would also allow an Orpik-Carlson pairing which has had more success in the past than the current Alzner-Carlson pairing.

9-2
27-88
44-74/4 (depending on when Carlson gets healthy)

I think this could work and might optimize the pairings even further. Either way Nate Schmidt has vastly outplayed both Carlson and Alzner at even strength and it would be a shame to see him stuck on the 3rd pairing for the rest of the season.

 

[ALLCAPSALLTHETIME]

TSN's trade board. Plenty of RWs on that list that could be feasible with some salary retained provided the Caps don't run into many injuries in the next six weeks. I'd just as soon go with Connolly over Gionta or Stafford but Hansen stands out as a really good fit IMO should Vancouver sell.

Eller plus Hansen = 2 Danes on the third line. Speed to burn. I like it. Hansen should be affordable, although the Canuckleheads GM is a flakey trader.

 

[um]

Are we bumping Connolly down for him, and somehow fitting 2.6M under the cap? If we're believers in fancy stats, Connolly is significantly better than Vanek this year. And BC may not have any NHL playoff experience but Vanek was last there 2 years ago and put up just 4 assists in 10 games.

We acquire him with Cap retained, even then he's not the only option out there. And do you really believe Connolly is better than Vanek, there's no way you can type that out with a straight face. Don't get the Connolly fandom on these boards, he's a forth liner that can jump to the third if needed, but still a weak third liner.

 

[g00n]

We acquire him with Cap retained, even then he's not the only option out there. And do you really believe Connolly is better than Vanek, there's no way you can type that out with a straight face. Don't get the Connolly fandom on these boards, he's a forth liner that can jump to the third if needed, but still a weak third liner.

No need to put words in my mouth. Just stating the facts for the stat people. Do you think they mean anything? Do you disagree with trick's assessments?

 

[36kap36]

Is anyone else at all worried about Oshie staying healthy when it comes to the TDL? He has been taking a lot of hits (legal or not doesn't matter here), and leaving games for a small stretch/missing a game or two here or there. What if this all adds up to a huge injury putting him for the rest of the year? Then what?

(I know this is hypothetical and I might be over-reacting, but it's in my mind after last night)

 

[g00n]

Also, if Vanek is such a key piece for a playoff push then what kind of bids are the Wings going to get for him? We may think we can lowball them but how many other high profile rentals are going to be out there competing in that ballpark for position and price?