About the recent talk of American players demanding trades... Isn't it a good thing?

[Mattilaus]

cause you can't give a team in toronto a higher salary cap due to taxes but florida who doesn't have a state income gets a lower salary cap.

Yes, you said that but why not?

 

[PistolPete]

What I don’t understand about this whole thing is why it’s even expected that Americans would want or have any reason to want to play and live in Canada. It’s a beautiful country with a lot to offer but it’s culturally and structurally different from the US in so many ways that I have absolutely zero desire to live there and I can’t blame any American player for feeling the same way

How is it culturally and structurally dufferent?

 

[Mattilaus]

Don't act like a smartass and then cry when it is returned.

The solution to the NBA is baked into the premise. And I never said it was because there was a cap, I said it was due to the per player cap percentage restriction. Those are drastically different things. Keep the cap but remove the cap percentage limitation per player. This way, if players do decide to form a Super Team, they HAVE to leave money (or more money) on the table to do it. When you reintroduce a secondary motive, you will see some degree of change as a response. Monitor from there and revisit the issue in a few years.

The MLB is in active talks for both a cap ceiling and floor for the next CBA, so that problem is also resolving itself as we speak. My input is not required.

Suggesting you think more about an example before blinding using it when it does not apply is not "flying off the handle". Seriously, grow up. If you didn't like the more thorough explanation, then you should have taken your second opportunity to think instead of doubling down.

No no, you are the one who had a poorly thought out idea of "just pay players more and they won't form super teams!" and then you got mad when I provided a clear example of why that doesn't work. You yourself are guilty of the doubling down on a poorly thought out idea, that you have accused me of. Not gonna waste more time on someone who can't converse without throwing insults.

 

[mikeyfan]

I hope the Wings tell Larkin we have a trade you can either go to this team or we won't trade you and you have to play for. the wings. Larkin has 5 more years left on his contract, what is he going to do? Quit Hockey? Larkin doesn't have any leverage in his request. And the Wings should seek the best deal for the Wings and if Larkin doesn't want to. move, then. too. bad so sad, Larkin is a. Wing. That is how you deal with players who think they can demand anything while under contract.

 

[Leafshater67]

Ban full NMC and NTC’s and limit how many trade clauses a team can hand out. The NMC’s are the real issue.

 

[gstommylee]

Yes, you said that but why not?

cause of labor laws of 2 countries when it comes to CBAs. You can't have multi different rules that is applied differently cause of where the team/players are located at. Why should players of florida have to deal with a lower cap cause of lower taxes but toronto can give out more money to the players cause of a higher cap due to higher taxes. That would be treating players unfairly and thus probably not legal again per laber laws.

 

[Mubiki]

No no, you are the one who had a poorly thought out idea of "just pay players more and they won't form super teams!" and then you got mad when I provided a clear example of why that doesn't work. You yourself are guilty of the doubling down on a poorly thought out idea, that you have accused me of. Not gonna waste more time on someone who can't converse without throwing insults.

No, the idea was if you remove the financial incentive to chase more money you will maximize the secondary incentive of chasing wins. Your example was bad because you chose a sport in which that choice does not functionally exist. The richest teams can offer both simultaneously, a circumstance entirely unique to MLB.

We are 3-4 posts deep and you STILL do not understand the original point, despite it being made abundantly clear multiple times. I don't really blame you from running away from this conversation. I would prefer not to look foolish either.

 

[PaulD]

Something I've been thinking about since Friedman mentioned a few weeks ago that there will be more than one trade request this summer coming out of the American Olympian camp (and from other players too)... It's a net good for the league and even those teams losing those players like Helleybuck, B Tkachuk, etc.

We see how badly many Canadian teams have been run: the Oilers, the Canucks, the Leafs most notably. Isn't it a good thing that top players are demanding a change of scenery? It will reinforce better practice and punish bad practice, it will hold a mirror up to the badly run teams to reflect on why they squandered their time with eg. Quinn Hughes.

Bad teams should feel repurcussions for being crappily run and not trying their best!

My own team is the Habs and we all know how many mistakes and self-serving excuses Montreal had for its misfortunes and "bad luck" with FAs and players and with assembling a team over the years. Now there seems to be better management and those excuses don't come up. Funny that good players commit to stay in Montreal despite the weather and taxes now, isn't it? The lack of palm trees in Buffalo don't seem to matter as much either now that they're better run either.

Well ya can't have 60 players on one sunny state team......all the rosters have to get filled.
Players can demand trades all they want. If more of them are going to do it where it becomes the norm......some of the side stories that will come out is " the teams you are demanding are all saying no thanks we're good " lol
Eg. Larkin on the Wings has been used to he number one center slot, first unit powerplay. On Panthers with Barkov and Bennett. He won't have thst any more
Truth be told he is a second liner on most of the teams on the league. However I think he will fit in nicely on Minny. Guerins Team America still pretty weak down the middle.
Larkin likey to be wearing a Wild jersey next season.

 

[gstommylee]

Ban full NMC and NTC’s and limit how many trade clauses a team can hand out. The NMC’s are the real issue.

and thats how you cause a lockout/player strike.

 

[93LEAFS]

cause of labor laws of 2 countries when it comes to CBAs. You can't have multi different rules that is applied differently cause of where the team/players are located at. Why should players of florida have to deal with a lower cap cause of lower taxes but toronto can give out more money to the players cause of a higher cap due to higher taxes. That would be treating players unfairly and thus probably not legal again per laber laws.

The NBA literally changed a by-law allowing advantageous tax situations that only favored the Raptors. I'm sure something can be done.

Edit: The NBA banned RCA's, which is a mechanism people employed in Canada can use to defer tax payments. It's the exact reason Jerome Iginla chose to live in the Boston area for 3 years post-retirment until moving back to Kelowna.

How pro athletes and other high earners stick-handle high Canadian income taxes

A special vehicle called an RCA helps high earners spread out their income and save on tax

www.theglobeandmail.com

He has also tried to put them in place for Toronto Raptors basketball players, but the National Basketball Association’s collective bargaining agreement bans the practice. The NBA felt the implementation of RCAs gave the Raptors, the sole franchise outside the United States, “an unfair advantage,” according to Mr. Parry.

 

[PistolPete]

cause of labor laws of 2 countries when it comes to CBAs. You can't have multi different rules that is applied differently cause of where the team/players are located at. Why should players of florida have to deal with a lower cap cause of lower taxes but toronto can give out more money to the players cause of a higher cap due to higher taxes. That would be treating players unfairly and thus probably not legal again per laber laws.

Doesn't CBA allow for contraventuon of labour laws since they were agreed to (provided the agreement isn't especially egregious Inwould imagine)?

 

[Mattilaus]

No, the idea was if you remove the financial incentive to chase more money you will maximize the secondary incentive of chasing wins. Your example was bad because you chose a sport in which that choice does not functionally exist. The richest teams can offer both simultaneously, a circumstance entirely unique to MLB.

We are 3-4 posts deep and you STILL do not understand the original point, despite it being made abundantly clear multiple times. I don't really blame you from running away from this conversation. I would prefer not to look foolish either.

Yep, okay you are absolutely right and a genius!

 

[Mattilaus]

cause of labor laws of 2 countries when it comes to CBAs. You can't have multi different rules that is applied differently cause of where the team/players are located at. Why should players of florida have to deal with a lower cap cause of lower taxes but toronto can give out more money to the players cause of a higher cap due to higher taxes. That would be treating players unfairly and thus probably not legal again per laber laws.

You can. I am currently employed and a part of a union. I am paid more for the same position than many of my peers who live in other areas because of where I live in Canada.

It also wouldn't be treating players unfairly because they would all be negotiating and agreeing to the amount they receive net. Why is it fair that Florida can pay a player less and beat offers from other teams due to their taxes? It's that unfair that they can sign players at a premium when others' can't?

 

[PistolPete]

You can. I am currently employer in an industry and a part of a union. I am paid more for the same position than many of my peers who live in other areas because of where I live in Canada.

Cost of living?

 

[IdleTraveller]

This feels a bit like an over-reaction: the Tkachuks and Quinn Hughes did not demand a trade - they just informed their front offices that they weren't resigning. That's their right as players. And then obviously their front offices wanted to get as much as they could from them. No controversy there.

The Larkin situation is pretty rare but I just don't see why it's OK for franchises to ask a player to waive their NMC but it's not OK for a player to ask for trade. Obviously as fans, we don't like it, but I don't see it as a moral failing or the start of the Downfall of the NHL.

And as the Larkin situation shows, it's not a US-Canada issue - it's a "I'm on a mediocre team and want to be traded to a contending team" issue. Take the Habs for example - you don't really see Caufield or Hutson hinting at wanting to be traded. I think people are seeing things that aren't there.

 

[Mattilaus]

Cost of living?

Yep, I live in the north. There's no reason the CBA can't negotiate the same.

 

[gstommylee]

You can. I am currently employed and a part of a union. I am paid more for the same position than many of my peers who live in other areas because of where I live in Canada.

It also wouldn't be treating players unfairly because they would all be negotiating and agreeing to the amount they receive net. Why is it fair that Florida can pay a player less and beat offers from other teams due to their taxes? It's that unfair that they can sign players at a premium when others' can't?

a player has a right to sign where they want and how ever the amount they want. The problem is having 32 teams with 32 different salary caps amounts cause of taxes. I remember hearing a washington state company getting its CBA thrown out cause it had different salary rules for the same skill level.

Also sports leagues probably get treated differently cause there being multi team franchises.

 

[Mattilaus]

a player has a right to sign where they want and how ever the amount they want. The problem is having 32 teams with 32 different salary caps amounts cause of taxes.

I agree they do, but there are already real world models where leagues use net income rather than gross. It's not rocket science, the NHL can do it if they want to and nobody, including the players, would be at a disadvantage. If anything, it would give players more teams who are able to offer them top dollar.

 

[gstommylee]

I agree they do, but there are already real world models where leagues use net income rather than gross. It's not rocket science, the NHL can do it if they want to and nobody, including the players, would be at a disadvantage. If anything, it would give players more teams who are able to offer them top dollar.

its not going to happen not one owner will ever vote for something like that and i still think it has some legal issues that might not survive a court challenge cause i never seen a US or a canada league have rules where the cap is adjusted based on tax. Its always been 1 cap level for every team and i don't see that ever changing.

 

[93LEAFS]

its not going to happen not one owner will ever vote for something like that and i still think it has some legal issues that might not survive a court challenge cause i never seen a US or a canada league have rules where the cap is adjusted based on tax. Its always been 1 cap level for every team and i don't see that ever changing.

The NBA literally banned players from having RCA's. You seem to be glossing over this. If there is an appetitie to do something they easily can implement something.

 

[gstommylee]

players don't give a darn about taxes all they care about rather the team is actually winning or not. If the leafs won the cup the last 2 years players would be wanting to sign with the leafs cause of them winning the cup. Brady didn't want to re-sign with ottawa cause he didn't think ottawa was gonna win the cup and wanted to be on a team that increases the chances.

 

[Mattilaus]

its not going to happen not one owner will ever vote for something like that and i still think it has some legal issues that might not survive a court challenge cause i never seen a US or a canada league have rules where the cap is adjusted based on tax. Its always been 1 cap level for every team and i don't see that ever changing.

Well, respectfully, i don't really know what to say when you feel there is some legal issue but can't define it. As I said, i work in a union and our collective bargaining allows for different salaries based on where you live.

 

[syz]

players don't give a darn about taxes all they care about rather the team is actually winning or not. If the leafs won the cup the last 2 years players would be wanting to sign with the leafs cause of them winning the cup. Brady didn't want to re-sign with ottawa cause he didn't think ottawa was gonna win the cup and wanted to be on a team that increases the chances.

The players and their agents have literally said that they care about taxes.

 

[Ezekial]

Remember those two Cup finals I mentioned? The fact thst they made the PO this year as well?

Your rhetorical question didn't address it.

Having good players doesn't make an organization good.

 

[JackSlater]

Players controlling their movement is good for the players on an individual level, not good for the league r for the players who don't have that control. The NHL is basically seeing a lesser version of the problem the NBA has had. No movement clauses should be scrapped, and they can give the players a small increase in the percentage of revenues they get to offset it. Both sides would be better off with the healthier league.