A SERIOUS DEBATE: Elias Lindholm

[RodTheBawd]

I think it's more of the home crowd than it is the 2nd change/matchup dependency. Once we were out, the last few hundred fans stopped showing up

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

It's true that a direct comparison is impossible, but I don't think the guys we sold off were the sort of high-impact players who change matchups at home and on the road.

Not sure I completely agree. While it isn't just "match-up" alone, those losses (plus McGinn) have made this team less competitive in general. When Stalberg was here, we could throw the 4th line out against anyone. Not so much the case now. Also, our 3rd pairing D was Hanifin / Dahlbeck, which, while not great had started playing decently. Now it's Dahlbeck/Tennyson, and they struggle badly.

I agree not all of it is "home vs. away" or matchup centric, but those changes clearly make the team less competitive and thus make winning at home more difficult.

We just had a run of good home games. It was fun, but it didn't mean much.

Yeah, not saying it could not have been partially a hot streak, but I think there's more to it. Of course, part of it could be back-up goalies. Would be interesting to see how many back-ups we faced home vs. away. The Isles games is a good example..Berube on the road (W), Greiss at home (L).

I'm too lazy and it's not important enough to look up though.

 

[Ole Gil]

19-10-4 9-17-8
19-15-7 16-16-9
18-16-7 12-25-4
18-17-6 18-18-5
24-16-1 14-20-7

I agree the home record is a bit of a fluke this year. But this is the last 5.

 

[NotOpie]

I'm not sure how much it will help with TT. Problem is, you gotta WANT to play like Lindholm and Aho play, and I don't think TT does. He wants to be a perimeter player who doesn't engage physically. Adding a little bulk and strength isn't likely to change that.

Even when Lindholm wasn't very strong, he still didn't shy away from engaging physically, he just wasn't strong enough to do it. Now, Lindholm is having more success doing it, but also gaining confidence playing that way, which is leading to even more of that type of play. Aho, already engages physically and frankly, plays with a little edge at times. I just don't see that ever happening with TT. Don't get me wrong, extra strength and conditioning can definitely still help (make him harder to push off the puck, a more powerful first step, etc...) just that I don't see that tiger changing his stripes.

There's some thought that adding the strength and bulk would/could lead to increase confidence which can lead to increased physicality. Don't get me wrong, I think Teuvo has got plenty of offensive confidence and he's actually a fairly responsible defender. He just get's pushed off the puck too often and get's out-muscled in the faceoff circle. I don't think he'll be the guy to do much initiation of contact, but maybe he won't shy away from in quite as much.

 

[Joe McGrath]

It's true that a direct comparison is impossible, but I don't think the guys we sold off were the sort of high-impact players who change matchups at home and on the road.

We just had a run of good home games. It was fun, but it didn't mean much.

I disagree. They should be a good team when they dictate the matchups because the Slavin/Staal combo can shut down anyone, while Hainsey and Faulk got absolutely skull ****ed on the road when they couldn't dictate matchups.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

I've noticed that the last month of games, Peters has focused less on getting the matchups he wants than on just rolling 4 lines, which may have something to do with the evaporated home ice advantage.

But I think the biggest factor is Ward going from sub 2.00 GAA for a month and a half, back to a bottom 5 starter.

 

[Ole Gil]

I've noticed that the last month of games, Peters has focused less on getting the matchups he wants than on just rolling 4 lines, which may have something to do with the evaporated home ice advantage.

But I think the biggest factor is Ward going from sub 2.00 GAA for a month and a half, back to a bottom 5 starter.

If you saw earlier, the Lindholm stats with Jordan really sent the GA/60 skyrocketing for that line. (from like 1.8 to 3+) Aho-Jordan-Elias is a scoring line now, not a shutdown line. They have no real effective defensive lines at this point.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Can't we just enjoy what we have? Lindholm is playing the best hockey of his career and is on pace for 50 points (82 games) after a terrible start. He's taken the step we wanted him to take so lets enjoy it and hope he continues to progress.

 

[GoldiFox]

Can't we just enjoy what we have? Lindholm is playing the best hockey of his career and is on pace for 50 points (82 games) after a terrible start. He's taken the step we wanted him to take so lets enjoy it and hope he continues to progress.

Booooo. Bring out the pitchforks.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I want this ****er traded immediately.

Elias Lindholm, screw that guy.

 

[Ole Gil]

Can't we just enjoy what we have? Lindholm is playing the best hockey of his career and is on pace for 50 points (82 games) after a terrible start. He's taken the step we wanted him to take so lets enjoy it and hope he continues to progress.

Well, sort of. He's also on pace for like 9 goals.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Well, sort of. He's also on pace for like 9 goals.

True his goal scoring isn't there, but his 82 game pace for points is 50. If you can't see the change in Lindholm's play right now, then you have blinders on. IMO, he's playing the best hockey of his career, and I'm not the only one that feels that way.

Agree though, he does need to start finding the back of the net more, but based on how last year went with him, it's good to see his play improve.

 

[geehaad]

I wouldn't know if he's improved or not, but I *can* say that there's absolutely no reason to get uptight about the way he's playing right now. His current play absolutely passes the eye test, so hope for status quo as next season begins.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I wouldn't know if he's improved or not, but I *can* say that there's absolutely no reason to get uptight about the way he's playing right now. His current play absolutely passes the eye test, so hope for status quo as next season begins.

He's due to hit a wall though.

 

[geehaad]

He's due to hit a wall though.

shiiii....

The way he's been playing, he'd run through a brick wall for us.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Tonight: Aho runs into wall, sidelined with concussion

 

[Breakdowns]

Tonight: Aho runs into wall, sidelined with concussion

full Tank mode?

 

[Nordic*]

Next season could get really interesting, both for Lindholm and for Carolina as a team.

I predict 67 points and Playoffs.

/ Nostradamus

 

[GoldiFox]

I predict great things for Lindholm. Probably comes after we trade him++ for Tanev.

 

[Anton Babchuk]

If you saw earlier, the Lindholm stats with Jordan really sent the GA/60 skyrocketing for that line. (from like 1.8 to 3+) Aho-Jordan-Elias is a scoring line now, not a shutdown line. They have no real effective defensive lines at this point.

Your reliance on personal GA to determine that Lindholm "isn't good defensively" is troubling. It's heavily reliant on luck/sv%. It's true that Staal's GA goes way up with Lindholm, but it's also true that Rask's goes way down. It's also true that Lindholm has spent significant time on a very good PK.

It's funny, because your argument last year that Lindholm sucks and is a borderline NHLer and that Riley Nash (lmao) is better was that players goals *for* got worse with Lindholm. You're now noting that Staal's GA skyrocketed with Lindholm while completely ignoring that his GF also skyrocketed--oh and that Rask and Skinner also have better significantly GF with Lindholm than without. It's almost like you have some irrational hate for Lindholm and are cherrypicking stats. Is Derek Ryan still better than him or have you gotten over that delusion?

Also, are you watching the games? Because it doesn't appear so. Aho-Jordan-Lindholm have maybe played like one game together over the past month.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I predict great things for Lindholm. Probably comes after we trade him++ for Tanev.

I thought it was Aho for Tanev. Now we are including Lindholm too?

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

I thought it was Aho for Tanev. Now we are including Lindholm too?

Gotta balance that salary somehow. Tanev makes 4.45$ million per year. We could always include skinner and retain a bit if you think that's better?

 

[Ole Gil]

Your reliance on personal GA to determine that Lindholm "isn't good defensively" is troubling. It's heavily reliant on luck/sv%. It's true that Staal's GA goes way up with Lindholm, but it's also true that Rask's goes way down. It's also true that Lindholm has spent significant time on a very good PK.

It's funny, because your argument last year that Lindholm sucks and is a borderline NHLer and that Riley Nash (lmao) is better was that players goals *for* got worse with Lindholm. You're now noting that Staal's GA skyrocketed with Lindholm while completely ignoring that his GF also skyrocketed--oh and that Rask and Skinner also have better significantly GF with Lindholm than without. It's almost like you have some irrational hate for Lindholm and are cherrypicking stats. Is Derek Ryan still better than him or have you gotten over that delusion?

Also, are you watching the games? Because it doesn't appear so. Aho-Jordan-Lindholm have maybe played like one game together over the past month.

I didn't rely on GA against. I also see the lapses in coverage that make me think "That seems to happen a lot", then I go check the stats, and see GA against is high.

Lindholm wasn't very good for much of last year. If your stats are comparable with Riley Nash at even strength, or Derek Ryan anywhere, something is wrong. Last year, he reminded me of a college QB making his first pro start, and he sees receivers that are open by College standards, but at the Pro level, they aren't because of the speed of the game. He was forcing passes through passing lanes that just weren't open.

And I didn't ignore Staal's goals for skyrocketing with Lindholm. I said the number was way up, and that Lindholm with Staal made it a scoring line, but I don't think you want Elias out there against Crosby's and OV's.

As a playmaker, Lindholm has obviously developed. But I still think he's a supporting role distributor, (winger), rather than the guy who carries the play and makes something happen.

I like Lindholm with Skinner and Rask as a 3rd line that cherry picks the opposition. It seems like it's the right level of competition for them. It's one of the reasons I was sad to see Eric go. Staal's eat up the tough matchups, then they swoop in against competition they can dominate.

 

[Joe McGrath]

I like Lindholm with Skinner and Rask as a 3rd line that cherry picks the opposition. It seems like it's the right level of competition for them. It's one of the reasons I was sad to see Eric go. Staal's eat up the tough matchups, then they swoop in against competition they can dominate.

So you like what is essentially the Canes 1st line as a 3rd line? I think we may have discovered why the Canes are terrible.

 

[NotOpie]

full Tank mode?

You've come a long way dude. That's some good clean fun right there.

Gotta balance that salary somehow. Tanev makes 4.45$ million per year. We could always include skinner and retain a bit if you think that's better?

I'm guessing we'll have to throw in a pick or one of the "******** of developing you D, you guys got".

I didn't rely on GA against. I also see the lapses in coverage that make me think "That seems to happen a lot", then I go check the stats, and see GA against is high.

Lindholm wasn't very good for much of last year. If your stats are comparable with Riley Nash at even strength, or Derek Ryan anywhere, something is wrong. Last year, he reminded me of a college QB making his first pro start, and he sees receivers that are open by College standards, but at the Pro level, they aren't because of the speed of the game. He was forcing passes through passing lanes that just weren't open.

And I didn't ignore Staal's goals for skyrocketing with Lindholm. I said the number was way up, and that Lindholm with Staal made it a scoring line, but I don't think you want Elias out there against Crosby's and OV's.

As a playmaker, Lindholm has obviously developed. But I still think he's a supporting role distributor, (winger), rather than the guy who carries the play and makes something happen.

I like Lindholm with Skinner and Rask as a 3rd line that cherry picks the opposition. It seems like it's the right level of competition for them. It's one of the reasons I was sad to see Eric go. Staal's eat up the tough matchups, then they swoop in against competition they can dominate.

Do they show different pictures depending on where you are? Cause you must not be near me as you're certainly not seeing the Lindholm play that I'm seeing. Yeah, I know I'm an optimist, but even by the eye test he's arguably made every line he's played with better.