The Star: A need for speed drives Leafs captain John Tavares in summer workouts

[mapleleaf979]

Nylander needs a line of his own ... he wasn't a good fit before with Matthews and he isn't with Tavares when you unsaddle him from Tavares, you will probably see a happier Tavares jmho

comment from Matthews when willie wants to go, can he ever go.. and then the oh it is just willie being willie.

Nylander wasnt a good fit with Bozak or Kadri either. Thats 4 centerman he can not gel with. Nylander loses trust of all his linemates and they play separately for most of the time.....when Nylander is engaged and all of a sudden he meshes with anyone, they are past the point of being tired with his act. I guarantee u, Matthews, Tavares Kadri, none of them liked Nylander as a linemate.

Tavares needs to lose 15 lbs to see noticeable difference in his skating. He is the most overpaid Leaf right now.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Nylander needs a line of his own ... he wasn't a good fit before with Matthews and he isn't with Tavares when you unsaddle him from Tavares, you will probably see a happier Tavares jmho

comment from Matthews when willie wants to go, can he ever go.. and then the oh it is just willie being willie.

Agreed. I think you really have to unshackle him from JT, which will probably make them both happier, although it will likely affect JT's performance, which is almost certainly why Dubas won't do it.

 

[ULF_55]

We should see a quicker Tavares who can keep up with his linemates this year.

Andreychuk sorry Tavares has to do more then just sit in the slot waiting for a deflection or dunk pass.

 

[Dekes For Days]

For context, Patrice Bergeron made less money on his deal than William Nylander himself on his last contract...
The very idea of an $11 million center who needs a $7 million star winger to make him look better is probably the root cause of any negativity towards Tavares.

For context, Bergeron's contract would be almost 9m per year if signed today, for ages 29-37, and he was a ~60 point player.

 

[Uncus13]

Agreed. I think you really have to unshackle him from JT, which will probably make them both happier, although it will likely affect JT's performance, which is almost certainly why Dubas won't do it.

not for the negative, it wouldn't. Nylander is very talented but as Matthews mentioned look at Willie when he wants to go he can really go lol. When he wants to go .... he quits on so many pucks ubber talented but so selfish.

 

[Uncus13]

We should see a quicker Tavares who can keep up with his linemates this year.

Andreychuk sorry Tavares has to do more then just sit in the slot waiting for a deflection or dunk pass.

I am not sure what games you have been watching but the only player I usually see that is engaged for the puck or along the boards on that line is Tavares.
Btw ..... Tavares isn't slow, I don't know who started this observation, but it isn't correct IMHO.

 

[Nineteen67]

I am not sure what games you have been watching but the only player I usually see that is engaged for the puck or along the boards on that line is Tavares.
Btw ..... Tavares isn't slow, I don't know who started this observation, but it isn't correct IMHO.

He is engaging and works his butt off, no doubt, but he is a little heavy footed.

 

[Nineteen67]

Nylander wasnt a good fit with Bozak or Kadri either. Thats 4 centerman he can not gel with. Nylander loses trust of all his linemates and they play separately for most of the time.....when Nylander is engaged and all of a sudden he meshes with anyone, they are past the point of being tired with his act. I guarantee u, Matthews, Tavares Kadri, none of them liked Nylander as a linemate.

Tavares needs to lose 15 lbs to see noticeable difference in his skating. He is the most overpaid Leaf right now.

15 lbs? That’s a lot of muscle.

Nylander is either scared or doesn’t care enough to use his God given talents. It‘s a shame because he could be a Leafs legend if he played a complete game.

 

[mclaren55]

For context, Bergeron's contract would be almost 9m per year if signed today, for ages 29-37, and he was a ~60 point player.

He would be worth every penny of that.

 

[Dekes For Days]

He would be worth every penny of that.

That's much easier to say after he defied usual development paths and aging curves, and has spent the last number of years on a stacked line that somewhat sheltered his offensive decline, but yeah it's usually worth it to pay elite players - which is kind of the point.

 

[notDatsyuk]

not for the negative, it wouldn't. Nylander is very talented but as Matthews mentioned look at Willie when he wants to go he can really go lol. When he wants to go .... he quits on so many pucks ubber talented but so selfish.

I was thinking more of JT. Unless you give him Marner, which I don't think is good usage, he's not going to look as good with anyone else we have.

I could be wrong. Maybe giving him two wingers more his speed will benefit his play.

I do think Nylander is better away from JT.

 

[mclaren55]

That's much easier to say after he defied usual development paths and aging curves, and has spent the last number of years on a stacked line that somewhat sheltered his offensive decline, but yeah it's usually worth it to pay elite players - which is kind of the point.

He is one of the best defensive centers of all time. That’s why he is worth 9m adjusted.

Nice snipe at one of the greats though.

 

[Tarmore]

I didn't realize according to capfriendly Tavares is only under contract for 2 more seasons after this one. How time flies.

When signed I remember the most commented part was JT's contract was going to be bad for the last couple of seasons. I expected worse performance beginning this season when signed actually.

If he has a poor performance at C, (I don't expect it this season BTW) do you think they would try him even strength at LW with MM? Move Bunting down a line. Perhaps try Nylander at C again? If so who would be better at 2C or who would be best currently at RW?

 

[MarMarSab3]

I didn't realize according to capfriendly Tavares is only under contract for 2 more seasons after this one. How time flies.

When signed I remember the most commented part was JT's contract was going to be bad for the last couple of seasons. I expected worse performance beginning this season when signed actually.

If he has a poor performance at C, (I don't expect it this season BTW) do you think they would try him even strength at LW with MM? Move Bunting down a line. Perhaps try Nylander at C again? If so who would be better at 2C or who would be best currently at RW?

I have been a long time believer that Nylander would make an Elite 2C.

Bunting Matthews Marner
Tavares Nylander Jarnkrok

 

[Dekes For Days]

He is one of the best defensive centers of all time. That’s why he is worth 9m adjusted.
Nice snipe at one of the greats though.

Not "sniping" anybody. I like Bergeron. Just discussing him and his contract, because somebody attempted to compare his contract to Leaf contracts in a rather misleading way.
He was certainly a great defensive center when he signed, which is why he was paid more than his offensive production would suggest, but for the record, that "one of the best defensive centers of all time" label was largely built throughout that contract, as his defensive impacts also defied usual aging curves.

 

[Dekes For Days]

If he has a poor performance at C, (I don't expect it this season BTW) do you think they would try him even strength at LW with MM? Move Bunting down a line. Perhaps try Nylander at C again? If so who would be better at 2C or who would be best currently at RW?

Tavares has been a center his whole career, and is one of the best face-off players in the league, and Nylander has been a winger his whole NHL career. I think Tavares' playstyle, strengths, and speed also fits the center role more, while Nylander's playstyle fits the wing better, so I don't really foresee a reason to switch them.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

IMHO the only difference between Bergeron and Tavares is that one was blessed with a star winger named Marchand and the other ... not so much (Nylander).
Now isn't it funny that you never hear about Bergeron's speed being an issue? Tavares is more talented than Bergeron and just as quick and fast.
God, we love to cannibalize our own.

Marchand is world class top line level no doubt there is a reason why he plays with Crosby and Berge on Canada's top line .. but I can't believe da disrespect here to Berge .. you do realize that straight line speed Berge is faster than Crosby 3 years ago .. and JT while having much better hands is not even REMOTELY as fast Berge .. JT is slowest guy on Team Canada by a country mile .. to compare speed of JT to Berge is just downright wrong .. they are nowhere near comparable .. now I don't know of father time has caught up to Berge yet due to his age but again a comparison on speed is inaccurate

 

[-DeMo-]

I have been a long time believer that Nylander would make an Elite 2C.

Bunting Matthews Marner
Tavares Nylander Jarnkrok

if Tavares was moved to the wing and Nylander to center I would like to see Matthews and Tavares together and Marner and Nylander together. Matthews and Tavares would be tough to contain on the cycle, and both Marner and Nylander prefer open ice. think there games would complement each more, you would just need a bunting on that line with Marner and Nylander to get them the puck down low and go to the net.

 

[Tarmore]

Tavares has been a center his whole career, and is one of the best face-off players in the league, and Nylander has been a winger his whole NHL career. I think Tavares' playstyle, strengths, and speed also fits the center role more, while Nylander's playstyle fits the wing better, so I don't really foresee a reason to switch them.

While agree with your premise. The way things are anticipated to play out yes.

1) I'm talking about a hypothetical slowdown (age related) of Taraves that makes him less effective as a C.
2) If Willy was effective or willing to play LW on a regular basis we would be talking of switching but since he isn't/won't I see it differently

Anyway just something to discuss in the offseason

 

[Voodoo Child]

I’m not even really sure that at his age Tavares can get much faster. He might improve his explosiveness which would give him a better first few steps, but that’s about it - his game is too baked in at this point.

What he really needs to work on is not being invisible for 30% of the season.

 

[Dekes For Days]

While agree with your premise. The way things are anticipated to play out yes.

1) I'm talking about a hypothetical slowdown (age related) of Taraves that makes him less effective as a C.
2) If Willy was effective or willing to play LW on a regular basis we would be talking of switching but since he isn't/won't I see it differently

Anyway just something to discuss in the offseason

I guess my question would be, why do we think a slower Tavares would work better on the wing? If anything, I'd say speed is more important for a winger.
I think Nylander is better at either wing than he is at C.

 

[Tarmore]

I guess my question would be, why do we think a slower Tavares would work better on the wing? If anything, I'd say speed is more important for a winger.
I think Nylander is better at either wing than he is at C.

Wing had less defensive responsibilities, thus a slower smart player can still be quite effective IMO

I guess we just disagree on this one. In limited time playing C in the NHL I think Willy has been fairly impressive. Especially when you look at it that he seldom plays the position and if he did regularly he would improve just by familiarity. Willy loves and is good at handling the puck and has been great, when allowed, at controlled entries. I think he gets to use both of these skills better in the middle.

 

[Stephen]

For context, Bergeron's contract would be almost 9m per year if signed today, for ages 29-37, and he was a ~60 point player.

But for even more context, if the Tavares contract was signed today at a 13.84% cap hit it would be a $11.4 million player. I'd ballpark Tavares as a player you'd be happy paying $8.5 million for.

 

[Dekes For Days]

But for even more context, if the Tavares contract was signed today at a 13.84% cap hit it would be a $11.4 million player. I'd ballpark Tavares as a player you'd be happy paying $8.5 million for.

Tavares also wasn't a 60 point player being re-signed until he was 37 though, so I don't know why you'd expect the same cap hit.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

For context, Bergeron's contract would be almost 9m per year if signed today, for ages 29-37, and he was a ~60 point player.

So Bergeron at 37 puts up 0.9 ppg. His aav would be 8.6 mil if signed the same year as Tavares. Tavares at 31 puts up 0.96 ppg. His aav is 11 mil.

So that extra 0.6 is worth 2.5 mil aav? And that doesn't even INCLUDE the fact that Bergeon is one of the best (if not THE best) defensive centers in the game.

Any contract comparison of any star player to a leaf star play is always humiliating.