MartinS82
Registered User
- May 26, 2016
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Those guys were pretty good, but Ron Francus probably their best. He even won a Frank Selky trophy one year too.
A look back at Sidney Crosby's defense over the past decade
- Thread starter Midnight Judges
- Start date
Those guys were pretty good, but Ron Francus probably their best. He even won a Frank Selky trophy one year too.
GreatGonzo
Registered User
Considering this is a thread about defensive play, His PPG and Art Ross don’t mean jack shit in this discussion. No need to jump to conclusion, get all emotional and feel the need to change the topic to protect Crosby
You really need to chill.
GreatGonzo
Registered User
TheAngryHank
Expert
- May 28, 2008
- 18,402
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GreatGonzo
Registered User
It’s all good. Sorry if my comment came off as rude. I was more thinking, I hope they don’t consider Crosby the ONLY two way forward the Pens have had, or even their best. Because I mean, come on....Ron Francis!
MakeTheGoalsLarger
Registered User
lol yeah Crosby sucks defensively for the same reason that Price sucks as a goalie : stats
why lose 2 hours of your time watching a hockey game when you can appreciate all the subtleties and nuances of the game by taking a minute or 2 to read stats.
why lose 2 hours of your time watching a hockey game when you can appreciate all the subtleties and nuances of the game by taking a minute or 2 to read stats.
- Feb 10, 2010
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That's a good point. You could probably get a decent sense for it by analyzing Bruins w/o Bergeron vs Team X without player Y. But even that would be problematic if their deployments weren't similar in nature (matching up against other team's top line, offensive zone starts %, etc).
- Feb 10, 2010
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- Feb 10, 2010
- 14,348
- 11,227
Are you suggesting that comparing actual on-ice results for the #4 Selke player to the #2 Selke player from last season is somehow unfair?
- Feb 10, 2010
- 14,348
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It's fairly obvious that they aren't moderately better defensively than Sid, they are massively better. But you knew that, which is why you are talking about offense - which is irrelevant to this thread.
GreatGonzo
Registered User
One season doesn’t make Crosby equal to any of those players. Toews, Kopitar, Bergeron, and Datsyuk were/are all more consistent defensively at a high level and better defensively overall.
besides you didn’t do it for one year, you did it for a 10 year span. Of course those players are going to have better defensive stats.
that’s why I mentioned those players, players that might be more fair to compare Crosby to, not the best of the best over the last decade, and Ovechkin.
Am I the only one wondering why we're comparing Crosby's defensive play for an entire decade? Seems odd. Wasn't it around 2015 or so that Crosby really upped that aspect of his game? Crosby right now is a much better defensive player than he was in 2010. Seems like y'all should just say his two-way play has gotten stronger as he's gotten older.
It's like a player breaks out for three straight 100-point seasons but had 20 pts in the previous 3 years so I guess he's really a 60 point a year player?
Edit: hey look, no surprise. He has finished in the top 10 in Selke voting the past few seasons after barely getting any throughout a large portion of his career. Seems like the voters have noticed his defense improving.
It's like a player breaks out for three straight 100-point seasons but had 20 pts in the previous 3 years so I guess he's really a 60 point a year player?
Edit: hey look, no surprise. He has finished in the top 10 in Selke voting the past few seasons after barely getting any throughout a large portion of his career. Seems like the voters have noticed his defense improving.
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Flying Dego
Registered User
- Apr 30, 2013
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Man thanks guys! I'm so glad fans of other teams could enlighten me on Crosby's defensive ability or disability. I hope he doesn't handicap us too badly with his 'one way' mentality come playoff time. Thanks for the heads up!
I'm sure other teams are licking their chops knowing how they can exploit Crosby's defensive game.
I'm sure other teams are licking their chops knowing how they can exploit Crosby's defensive game.
Turin
Erik Karlsson is good
- Feb 27, 2018
- 23,955
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Just straight up goals against doesn’t really tell a better story than plus minus. And nobody compared Crosby’s individual defense to the Bergeron/Datsyuk/Toews/Kopitars of the world until last season. People did say his offense made up the gap and then some, which is true.
KoozNetsOff 92
Hala Madrid
- Apr 6, 2016
- 8,567
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No. It's around this time that Crosby began falling further and further from the ross winner so the media began to spin it into "wow what an amazing leader, he's sacrificing his pts for D!", etc. Kind of like what happened to Yzerman in his 30s. Is he better defensively than his early years? Of course, but he's no Selke candidate. It's just media hype to keep his name in the spotlight because he's no longer relevant in ross or rocket races.
Didn't Crosby win the rocket a year later? Hahaha. Guess NHL goalies just wanted to keep him relevant. League must have given them a memo!
Oh, and two Stanley Cup championships and two Conn Smythe's?
I don't think Crosby needs the media to keep him relevant, bitter Capitals fan.
Didn't he also have a 100-point season just last year?
Such an easy counter argument! It's like they don't even try!
Hockey Outsider
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- Jan 16, 2005
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I'm doing an analysis of the top ES performers from the 2010's. Will post the results later tonight or tomorrow (I want a chance to check my numbers).
Based on what I have so far, Connor McDavid is clearly the best ES performer of the past decade (with the important disclaimer that he only played 3.5 years worth of games). Among players who played the entire decade, it's close between Bergeron and Crosby as the best ES performer.
Based on what I have so far, Connor McDavid is clearly the best ES performer of the past decade (with the important disclaimer that he only played 3.5 years worth of games). Among players who played the entire decade, it's close between Bergeron and Crosby as the best ES performer.
It shouldn't and doesn't matter who post the numbers as long as they are correct.
KoozNetsOff 92
Hala Madrid
- Apr 6, 2016
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If you actually read what I wrote, I said "Crosby began falling further and further from the ROSS winner". Yes he won a rocket, but he didn't challenge for it in any of the 6 prior or 3 next seasons so that's clearly an outlier. The pens won 2 cups, not Crosby. Also the 16 smythe was a joke and perfect proof of media hype. Let me know when a player won the smythe despite being a minus and below PPG?
Not bitter about anything.
Yes he did, but was still 30pts behind the ross winner and double digits behind the other contenders, which is exactly what I said. He's not relevant in that race anymore so y'all hyping up his "defense".
Gurglesons
Registered User
Guess what. They aren’t. If you have a hypothesis that Crosby is a bad defensive forward compared to elite defensive forwards you can find data that convinces you of such.
Compared to the elite defensive forwards he is way worse defensively. That shouldn't even be a debate.
Gurglesons
Registered User
Well, it shouldn’t be a debate. It is raw data, the issue is the poster used on ice data and goals against which shows nothing. Goals are scored randomly. The data should be showing expectations not results if we are trying to determine Crosby versus his peers.
Gurglesons
Registered User
It shows a poster with a known bias trying to argue a point he spends his existence on this forum arguing.
Once again. You can arrange data to tell any story you want. The importance of statistics is showing without bias a proof. Not validating a statement with numbers.
