miscs75
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Any other garbage contracts Montreal wants to add into that dumpster fire?
Value of: A 2nd line center to Montreal.
- Thread starter GrandmaCookie
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miscs75
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Horvat is a long term core piece. Dach is damaged goods plus a 3C (projected) and middle 6 winger really doesn’t move the needle for the Isles. Especially with players like Engvall, Duclair, Cizikas, Mayfield, Pelech and Pulock all with multiple years left eating up spots at the moment. Now if the Isles wanted to move out all core pieces, picks over damaged goods is a much smarter way to go. Also moving out Horvat gives the Isles Barzal/Pageau/Beck/Maclean/Cizikas as center options and that’s just a disaster with no bright spot in the future. No a defensive prospect instead doesn’t help out either.
Bruce Granville
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- Oct 11, 2014
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Sure. If you have cap issues solve them by moving your 23 yo #2C who is making 5m for the next 4 years.
So, the cap hit, the age, the position, the term and AND the quality of the player warrant a 1st round pick…that makes 5 first round picks.
So, just to humour me, what is your offer for a contending team that comes close to fair value?
Just remember, fair value does not move the needle…
FiveTacos
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I don't think that's enough of a centerpiece for me to give up a young 2C either. For every Larkin or Barzal drafted in that range, there's a bunch of guys who do nothing. Odds of anything better than a 2C are slim. Most likely outcome is someone less valuable than what you gave up, if you even find an NHLer at all.
Of course you know this, otherwise the best plan would be to keep the pick, draft a future 2C, and stopgap with an older guy or rental.
AvatarAang
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JadedRandom
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Nope.
There are two MAJOR differences.
The first is that Habs fans don't put Dach, Newhook, and Beck everywhere to nearly the same level as the OG '08 proposal.
And then there's also the fact that Ryder, Halak, and 2nd (the original proposal from '08) is a stronger package than Dach, Newhook, and Beck if we look at all parts objectively.
Ryder had one down season in '07-'08 but still had value then, after multiple 30-goal seasons on a bad offensive team.
And Ryder would prove it over 3 seasons with the Bruins after he left Montreal. He potted-in 13 points in 11 playoff games for the Bruins in his first run with them in '09, had a weaker '10, but put an exclamation point on '11 with a very strong playoff performance en route to helping his team win the Stanley Cup.
Halak was a borderline blue-chip goaltender prospect in 2008 after having put the AHL on fire on a pretty middling Hamilton Bulldogs team and having looked VERY GOOD in limited appearances with the Canadiens.
On a good majority of NHL teams Halak would have been the de-facto #1 goalie prospect in the organization back in '08. Except that the Canadiens had Price in their pipeline already, who's an all-time great, so Halak was deemed to be (and ultimately was) expendable. Though he had an amazing career looking back on it.
And a second-round pick is a second-round pick, not a great value by any stretch of the imagination but still decent.
So yeah, long story short '08 Ryder + Halak + 2nd > current-day Dach, Newhook, Beck.
At least until Dach starts stringing good, healthy seasons together, Newhook figures things out offensively, and/or Beck shows to be more than a future 3rd-line center.
I could see Beck becoming more than a 3rd-line center going forward, but the other two are kind of long-shots at this point I feel, as unfortunate as it is to say.
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You are OBSESSED with the Habs, wow. Honestly, you should just become a fan at this point; you’ll be much happier. Come to the dark side
Personally, I’d rather trade Hage for someone young-ish who’s already proven. I don’t see the big deal with a package to the Islanders for Barzal with Hage, a 1st and some lower end roster player.
Lundell would be a dream and the ideal fit at 2C for Montreal. Mid 1st + Hage + a cheap roster F for Lundell would be my offer
Beezeral
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I really don't expect him to be available. Panthers would be nuts to trade him. I'm just saying that if he were available Montreal would be all over it.
Beezeral
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even if he was available, you aren't offering anywhere near enough or even something that would intrigue a team that has an open cup window. A mid round 1st that might make the NHL in a year or 2 does nothing for a team trying to win now.
pth2
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I'd be offering picks 14 and 16. Florida could add some prospects to the pipeline and likely use them in trades for rentals over the next year or two.
Is it enough? Who knows. And the offer only makes sense if Florida needs to make cap room, and decides to moves him without taking back salary.
I understand what you’re saying, but the “Sure” thing is a 30 year old player with six more years left on his contract @ 8.5 M. Is this the best that can be done to fill the number two center spot? Horvat is a good player, but he’s never hit 70 points, even though the 30+ goals would be nice but does he hit 30+ as he gets older? Maybe, but there’s no way I would shackle the team to a 30 year old player like this and the contract he comes with. If we’re giving up a bunch of prospects, get a younger and better player that will grow with the core. If none is available, draft one and develop him. The Habs aren’t going to be contenders for another few years, so lets not be throwing out prospects at this time for an aging and expensive player
malcb33
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Not a comment on value in a trade for Horvat, but are you really saying the players mentioned (Beck, Dach, Newhook) have garbage contracts?
Beck- ELC (1st-year pro, looking very solid and is very likely to become a middle 6C)
Dach- 1 x 3.3M (Often injured, but a 24yo, 6'4 RH middle 6C/W)
Newhook- 2 x 2.9M (Very fast, 24yo middle 6 C/W)
You can say what you want about their trade value, but how are these "garbage contracts"?
miscs75
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No but Dach is a buyers beware due to injury history and teams will tread lightly with that, especially after the Rangers dumped that vegetable on Vancouver. Anderson and Gallagher (and to an extent both Matheson and Laine) are garbage contracts though. To say that teams will give up that younger 2C Habs fans are raving about and not giving up real quality/overpayment is downright comical though. You’ll have to give up multiple pieces to get someone who fills that gaping hole in the 2nd line and it won’t be pretty.
malcb33
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So, you are now talking about the value of the players, whereas before, you said they had "garbage contracts." Those things aren't the same.
Also, why are you bringing up Laine, Anderson, Matheson and Gallagher contracts, when they have absolutely nothing to do with the proposed trade? Montreal is set up very well cap-wise for the future.
Bouboumaster
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miscs75
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I brought them up simply because of the fact they're all cap dumps (aka garbage contracts) that Montreal would try to send in return for Barzal/Horvat. None of which the Islanders would even entertain in return. Pre Nelson trade to Colorado, Matheson was pushed to the Islanders as part of the return for a deal for "cap purposes". Even previous trade posts for Dobson had him involved like he'd be useful for the Islanders.
miscs75
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Connor would implode if he had the Montreal media following him around after he doesn't score 3 shifts into his first game.
