Value of: A 2nd line center to Montreal.

[BonMorrison]

Ryan O'Reilly.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

I'd imagine Couturier would be plenty available. In a vacuum, he'd probably even be a great "stopgap" for the Habs. However...3 more years @ $7.75M on a guy who is clearly slowing down (and wasn't fast to begin with) and has noted back issues, is definitely suboptimal. Probably a non-starter.

The idea of retention is probably out of the question...especially considering the Flyers have absolutely no pressing need to move him whatsoever. In fact, it's very likely they'd prefer to just hang onto him unless someone blows their socks off. They need playable NHL Centers with experience and some two-way ability who can hold up defensively but also have the skill and smarts to play with talented younger players as well, as they try to bring in young players as they rebuild. As long as he's willing to keep plugging away at it...he seems like a good solid veteran leader to keep around along with Konecny, to help insulate and mentor the kids as they come along...avoid falling into that Buffalo pit of despair scenario.

The only way to really balance that would be something like Josh Anderson going the other way to offset a big chunk of it. But the Flyers need another RH Winger like a hole in the head. So...that's also probably a non-starter.


I think Couts injuries, decline, and contract make him pretty close to unmovable...even in a league that is absolutely starved for even a 2/3C "tweener" with size and some defensive conscience.

Couts is a total capdump. You would have to add a 1st + to dump him on the Habs.

Josh Anderson is a big part of the Habs. They won't trade him.

 

[Baksfamous112]

It’s the problem with what the futures are. If the prospects are going to be projected bottom roster filler pieces, that’s not even worth it just to sell off guys. Moving Barzal for example and the prospect being a depth guy in the minors who will develop into a best a bottom 6 depth piece really isn’t smart in hopes the drafted pieces develop. You’re more likely to be a bust than a bonafied superstar.

Prospects (18-21 years old) that are projected as surefire top 6 F or top 4 D are usually elite prospects that come into the league and are able to contribute right away.

These high ceiling guys are never traded and when they are, they aren’t traded for Barzal’s type of player - who’s averaging ~65 points/season. If you’re expecting a guaranteed superstar ++ in a Barzal return you’re going to be disappointed.

No one said they’ll be sending depth guys in the minors as a return. You’ll probably get a couple of young players who trend toward middle of the line-up with upsides. Also, I’m not sure why you’re shitting on 3rd and 4th liners. Most of the times these guys are the difference between a pretender and a contender

 

[miscs75]

Prospects (18-21 years old) that are projected as surefire top 6 F or top 4 D are usually elite prospects that come into the league and are able to contribute right away.

These high ceiling guys are never traded and when they are, they aren’t traded for Barzal’s type of player - who’s averaging ~65 points/season. If you’re expecting a guaranteed superstar ++ in a Barzal return you’re going to be disappointed.

No one said they’ll be sending depth guys in the minors as a return. You’ll probably get a couple of young players who trend toward middle of the line-up with upsides. Also, I’m not sure why you’re shitting on 3rd and 4th liners. Most of the times these guys are the difference between a pretender and a contender

I’m expecting a better package than a mid-late 1st, overhyped B tier prospect and filler pieces for Barzal. You can pick up 3rd/4th liners a lot easier than high end talent, that’s where I’m coming from with the bottom of the roster prospect types. It seems like every time a player has been asked about by Habs fans, he’s automatically trashed eventhough they want him. This guy isn’t worth the average going rate or our prospect is a surefire NHL player in the making.
Colorado can trade a top 25 prospect in Calum Ritchie with a 1st for a rental but Montreal would never do something anywhere near that to fill a major hole in the lineup.

 

[miscs75]

But if you want a 1st around 16th (with which if you are drafting a bottom 6 player, you are doing it wrong) with a prospect, you won't get a Demidov level prospect with it. Not saying that a 1st + Mailloux gets you Barzal, but the 1st AND Mailloux are projected better than bottom sixers. Beck probably has that ceiling, by the nature of his play, but he is projected to be an excelllent one.

The issue comes down to what I said earlier with the math combination. Too many times I’ve seen Habs fans try to push 2+2+1+1+1+1+.5+.5+.5+.5 is the same as 10 in terms of quality. That’s the issue I have with trading a guy like Barzal and not getting back that piece to springboard the rebuild. Once again, Beck can be a great bottom 6 player but that’s not the point. The point is that too many times it’s been those guys being shoved into trades for high end veteran as the offset instead of a higher end prospect as the main piece.

 

[AvatarAang]

Couts is a total capdump. You would have to add a 1st + to dump him on the Habs.

Josh Anderson is a big part of the Habs. They won’t trade him.

Anderson is signed for 5.5M longterm and he hasn’t scored more than 32 points since 2018-2019

Everyone else knows he’s a cap dump, which is likely why that forum member suggested a couturier/anderson swap since both of their contracts suck.

 

[Baksfamous112]

I’m expecting a better package than a mid-late 1st, overhyped B tier prospect and filler pieces for Barzal. You can pick up 3rd/4th liners a lot easier than high end talent, that’s where I’m coming from with the bottom of the roster prospect types. It seems like every time a player has been asked about by Habs fans, he’s automatically trashed eventhough they want him. This guy isn’t worth the average going rate or our prospect is a surefire NHL player in the making.
Colorado can trade a top 25 prospect in Calum Ritchie with a 1st for a rental but Montreal would never do something anywhere near that to fill a major hole in the lineup.

Historically speaking, a player like Barzal return a 1st round pick, top 9 F (usually 3rd liner) and a B prospect. Why do you think all of sudden it should be any different?

May I remind you what you paid for a (signed) Bo Horvat entering his prime?

 

[miscs75]

Historically speaking, a player like Barzal return a 1st round pick, top 9 F (usually 3rd liner) and a B prospect. Why do you think all of sudden it should be any different?

May I remind you what you paid for a (signed) Bo Horvat entering his prime?

It’s the problem with the consistent lowball offers from Habs fans for Dobson/Barzal/Horvat. It can’t always be a a Rick from Pawn Stars type of nickel and dime offer for everyone. To say that Barzal needs to go for futures and because this is what guys historically go for which means Barzal will get at best a bottom 6 forward, late 1st and mid round pick as an offset is the comical part. Plus if Barzal was traded, the offer would be better then what you guys sent for Alex Newhook even if your fanbase is convinced otherwise.
If you want to bring up Horvat, atleast know he was traded unsigned.

 

[Baksfamous112]

It’s the problem with the consistent lowball offers from Habs fans for Dobson/Barzal/Horvat. It can’t always be a a Rick from Pawn Stars type of nickel and dime offer for everyone. To say that Barzal needs to go for futures and because this is what guys historically go for which means Barzal will get at best a bottom 6 forward, late 1st and mid round pick as an offset is the comical part. Plus if Barzal was traded, the offer would be better then what you guys sent for Alex Newhook even if your fanbase is convinced otherwise.
If you want to bring up Horvat, atleast know he was traded unsigned.

I’ve never even made an offer for Barzal, so I don’t know why you keep the rhetoric of “Habs offers are bad, bad!”

I’ve never said that Barzal NEEDS to go and if he does go, he would automatically be traded for futures.

All I said is that if you’re going to kickstart a rebuild and Barzal is moving, you can’t expect a first + high end prospect (surefire top 6 like you said) ++. That’s just unrealistic as an ask.

Horvat was not a sign and trade - That never happens but he did sign on the same day he was traded, so you gotta believe there was an understanding as to what was needed to sign a long term contract while the trade details was being worked on.

Your claim that historical value of a top 6 doesn’t apply to Barzal because he’s on your team but applied to everyone else , including the high end 2C in his prime you acquired 2 years ago is absolutely ridiculous and deserved to be called out.

 

[miscs75]

I’ve never even made an offer for Barzal, so I don’t know why you keep the rhetoric of “Habs offers are bad, bad!”

I’ve never said that Barzal NEEDS to go and if he does go, he would automatically be traded for futures.

All I said is that if you’re going to kickstart a rebuild and Barzal is moving, you can’t expect a first + high end prospect (surefire top 6 like you said) ++. That’s just unrealistic as an ask.

Horvat was not a sign and trade - That never happens but he did sign on the same day he was traded, so you gotta believe there was an understanding as to what was needed to sign a long term contract while the trade details was being worked on.

Your claim that historical value of a top 6 doesn’t apply to Barzal because he’s on your team but applied to everyone else , including the high end 2C in his prime you acquired 2 years ago is absolutely ridiculous and deserved to be called out.

The trade for Horvat was made before the contract was signed even if there was an agreement before the deal was made.

It’s more like im expecting the high end prospect as the main piece over the 1st when it comes to moving Barzal to kickstart a rebuild instead of the 1st, lower end prospect, filler pieces. Would rather have the higher end (forward) prospect over the 1st.
Your fanbase is under the impression however that the Isles need to sell off everyone higher end on the roster for pieces and rebuild while keeping the veterans with term that should be moved out.
If you guys truly want a young 2C, every prospect minus Demidov should be on the table. Teams want something more then a stack of draft picks and that C tier prospect who’s being pushed like he’s better then he is. If JB doesn’t care about draft picks and can easily make Tampa a cup contender by moving them out, so can Kent Hughes.
Playing Be A GM mode isn’t real life which is why you can throw a bunch of low end pieces out as an offer and expect something high end back. Teams laugh at trades like that. You want a player with a value of 10? You offer up a piece with a value of 7 as part of the deal back in return, not a bunch of 1s and 2s.

 

[thebestnic]

The problem with selling them off is that they need that blue chip prospect to somehow be coming back either in the trade or the draft. By blue chip, I’m talking bonafied future star, not Slaf/Lafreniere 2nd line types. Essentially the Isles would need to at worst get a #1 who’s the next Tavares for the organization at minimum.
To trade them and get a bunch of late picks, B/C tier prospects and cap dump veterans who can’t play at the NHL level anymore puts the Isles in a rough spot. Having 525600 prospects is great but quality ≠ quality. Case in point why if I’m moving both Barzal and Dobson to Montreal (as an example), I want Demidov in that package. A Mailloux+ package just isn’t it. I don’t care if Mailloux is a physical defender who might at next top out to the middle pairing.

I don't think Isles are gonna sell but they're not getting a blue chip like Slaf let alone Demidov if they do sell

 

[miscs75]

I don't think Isles are gonna sell but they're not getting a blue chip like Slaf let alone Demidov if they do sell

Not asking for Slaf or Demidov. However if you want Barzal, Mailloux really shouldn’t be the best prospect option available. I’d rather take the 1st, Coronato, prospect trade a Calgary fan threw out at that point.

 

[thebestnic]

Not asking for Slaf or Demidov. However if you want Barzal, Mailloux really shouldn’t be the best prospect option available. I’d rather take the 1st, Coronato, prospect trade a Calgary fan threw out at that point.

Agreed on that. Realistic offer would be two firsts + Hage

 

[miscs75]

Agreed on that. Realistic offer would be two firsts + Hage

If you want to move a defensive prospect, Reinbacher over Mailloux.

 

[thebestnic]

If you want to move a defensive prospect, Reinbacher over Mailloux.

Habs are not moving Reinbacher but yes I agree that Mailloux has zero value in a Barzal/Horvat trade

 

[ole ole]

Here's an ideal . Sign Kuznetsov for a season. He was playing with Demidov and it would help Demi getting use to living and playing over here. He would be cheap and cost us nothing. Him centering Laine and Demi to start next season.

 

[Baksfamous112]

If you want to move a defensive prospect, Reinbacher over Mailloux.

There’s no universe where Montreal would give a top D prospect in Reinbacher for Barzal.

 

[Luceni]

So I've just read a few pages of this topic. Let's summarize this thread so far: Montreal fans wanna get a good center but don't wanna give anything away for it. So whats the point of discussing?

 

[Frank Drebin]

he issue comes down to what I said earlier with the math combination. Too many times I’ve seen Habs fans try to push 2+2+1+1+1+1+.5+.5+.5+.5 is the same as 10 in terms of quality

Thats the way trades are made. You don't have to like it.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Agreed on that. Realistic offer would be two firsts + Hage

thats more than f***ing jack eichel got lmao

 

[Captain97]

If Rossi gets dealt, what would the ask likely be? Obviously a 1st is in there but what sort of roster players/prospects in terms of position would the wild need?

 

[Frank Drebin]

Brayden Schenn, who was 25 at the time, coming off a 59 point season, healthy, and signed for 3 more years at a 5.25m cap hit was traded for Jori Letera (a declining 3rd liner), a late first (28th) and a conditional (assuming top 10 protected) first, which ended up being 14th overall.
So it would likely be middling prospect, Montreals first this year, Montreals first next year for a player of that age and pedigree. Barzal is worth less.

 

[boredmale]

Thats the way trades are made. You don't have to like it.

That's the way trades are made when the team selling wants to get rid of the player(because they don't want to resign him(due to cap space concerns or don't feel like they can't resign him or maybe just looking to go in a new direction)

Now it generally doesn't happen but if you want a specific player a team really doesn't want to trade, you have to make it worth their while and give quality back.

 

[MoneyManny]

Yeah i wouldn't want Mailloux either lol.

 

[miscs75]

Thats the way trades are made. You don't have to like it.

Not even close but good try. Most teams tend to offer something of quality that’s close to the value of the piece they want. Not a boatload of lower end pieces.