GDT: #9 | Canadiens at Flyers | Sunday, October 27, 2024 | 7:00 PM | NBCSP, 93.3 FM

[renberg]

Meltzer from hockeybuzz. I wonder how much Torts spewing this crap led to passing on buium:

Today @ 9:11 AM ET
The Flyers were never going to repeat their 3 goals on 6 SOG from the other night. Andrae's play makes you wonder why he couldn't get out of the press box earlier in the season.
- Flyers_01


I was told by someone in hockey ops that Tortorella did not want "go too small on D" with three small/smallish D. York and Drysdale are in the lineup, so that squeezed out Andrae when he was called up. Right now with York out, though, there's an opportunity for Andrae. He was a bright spot last night.

BJM has told us that Tortorella has no power over who gets drafted. Hmmm

 

[deadhead]

Who is the head of Comcast Spectacor?

You know they own and operate the arena, right? It's nuts to think that is some forgotten and neglected asset. Pretending all these Comcast employees have nothing to do with Comcast is delusional.

Hilferty.

They're as much a real estate company as anything else.
Not only own the Fargo center, but are working on a $2.5 billion project around the stadiums.
"Phillies say they’re joining with Comcast Spectacor in $2.5 billion transformation of South Philadelphia Sports Complex."

Comcast Spectacor is the principal owner of Spectra (formerly Global Spectrum, Ovations and Paciolan). Globally, Spectra serves 300-plus clients at more than 400 properties.
Comcast Spectacor owns Ovations Food Services.
New Era Tickets is the full-service ticketing subsidiary of Comcast Spectacor,

So it's not like Hilferty is spending most of his time with the Flyers.
And he's not a "Comcast guy," cut his teeth as CEO of IBX. This is his retirement gig.

The Flyers are run by Jones and Briere. Hilferty is basically hands off, though he probably has to sign off on major expenditures like big money contracts.

 

[deadhead]

BJM has told us that Tortorella has no power over who gets drafted. Hmmm

That wasn't about drafting, it's not just that York and Drysdale are smaller, Zamula also plays small.

His concern was probably that if he has to pair two undersized D-men, opposing teams would crash the net, and they would struggle to win board battles to stop the cycle.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

I’m old enough to remember these quotes which painted Dave Scott and Hilferty as only running the Flyers and their extended hockey operations. Now? They’re super busy and barely even look at those things.

Hilferty is rich, ran a major corporation for 10 years, I doubt he just wants to run a business unit for Comcast.
He may be living every fan's dream "If I was running the team . . . "

Oh, I'd expect Scott to be a fanboy similar to many here.
I mean what does he do with his time?
He's not really running the business side.

 

[deadhead]

I’m old enough to remember these quotes which painted Dave Scott and Hilferty as only running the Flyers and their extended hockey operations. Now? They’re super busy and barely even look at those things.

Hilferty has supported the rebuild, Scott made it clear that they weren't rebuilding.
That's what CEOs do, set the general organizational philosophy then delegate management decisions.

The difference is Hilferty actually knows what the blue line is, Scott was the CFO of Comcast (which means he didn't have line management experience) and was clueless about hockey.

For better or worse, it's going to be Jones/Briere/Torts running the show the next few years.
Since they seem to have a general consensus about what they want to do, doubtful advisors have any meaningful input.
They may screw it up, but not because of some "conspiratorial" deep Flyers state.

The advantage of Briere being special advisor is he had a year to watch everyone do their jobs and evaluate them instead of having to focus on day to day activities. Much like Howie when Kelly got him exiled for a year. Of course he wasn't going to criticize CF, when you're the heir apparent, the last thing you do is make waves. The fact that he hasn't made wholesale (he has made some) changes suggests he saw the problem was at the top. The biggest change was demoting Brown as head of pro personnel (to scout, probably to ease him into retirement). The other was doubling the size of the analytics group.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Hilferty.

They're as much a real estate company as anything else.
Not only own the Fargo center, but are working on a $2.5 billion project around the stadiums.
"Phillies say they’re joining with Comcast Spectacor in $2.5 billion transformation of South Philadelphia Sports Complex."

Comcast Spectacor is the principal owner of Spectra (formerly Global Spectrum, Ovations and Paciolan). Globally, Spectra serves 300-plus clients at more than 400 properties.
Comcast Spectacor owns Ovations Food Services.
New Era Tickets is the full-service ticketing subsidiary of Comcast Spectacor,

So it's not like Hilferty is spending most of his time with the Flyers.
And he's not a "Comcast guy," cut his teeth as CEO of IBX. This is his retirement gig.

The Flyers are run by Jones and Briere. Hilferty is basically hands off, though he probably has to sign off on major expenditures like big money contracts.

He is literally a Comcast guy.

The Flyers being run by Jones and Briere is a disaster. That's the whole point. They're alumni guys. Mr "Hands Off" allows them to remain empowered. Nothing has changed. The people you slammed for supposedly bringing down Fletcher? All still in charge. All doing the same things.

The idea that Hilferty is blissfully unaware of the major tenant of their major property is completely goofy, by the way.

I very strongly suggest you not waste time trying to weave some tale that Comcast doesn't care about money. This is a company that will spend 500 bucks to collect 20 bucks from someone they admit they charged wrongfully. Because the important thing is getting the money. It's the most bizarre deflection you've tried yet. "These guys are different because Comcast doesn't care about a mere billion dollars" doesn't float.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Hilferty has supported the rebuild, Scott made it clear that they weren't rebuilding.
That's what CEOs do, set the general organizational philosophy then delegate management decisions.

The difference is Hilferty actually knows what the blue line is, Scott was the CFO of Comcast (which means he didn't have line management experience) and was clueless about hockey.

For better or worse, it's going to be Jones/Briere/Torts running the show the next few years.
Since they seem to have a general consensus about what they want to do, doubtful advisors have any meaningful input.
They may screw it up, but not because of some "conspiratorial" deep Flyers state.

The advantage of Briere being special advisor is he had a year to watch everyone do their jobs and evaluate them instead of having to focus on day to day activities. Much like Howie when Kelly got him exiled for a year. Of course he wasn't going to criticize CF, when you're the heir apparent, the last thing you do is make waves. The fact that he hasn't made wholesale (he has made some) changes suggests he saw the problem was at the top. The biggest change was demoting Brown as head of pro personnel (to scout, probably to ease him into retirement). The other was doubling the size of the analytics group.

Jones confirmed there is no rebuild. It was a lie all along to try and scam some money from gullible fans, and at this point lives only in your imagination.

 

[deadhead]

Show me where Jones has said there is no rebuild.
I have seen him say there is, I've never seen him say there isn't.
Now he has made noises that it might be faster than expected, but even then, those comments were hedged.

Here's some ACTUAL comments:

"I don't think the messaging should be lost in the fact that we did trade a player for a first-round pick next year in a very important draft," president of hockey operations Keith Jones said Wednesday. "Had Sean Walker stayed with the team, is there three points in there for us? Yes, then we're in the playoffs, we would have battled hard, we would have been a difficult opponent for everyone.

"Does it diminish what our guys accomplished throughout the year? I don't think it does," Jones said. "Does having the 12th pick overall help us in this draft? It does. Is it something that we were hoping for as our guys were battling for the playoffs? No, but we have to make good on it now."

"We never lost sight of the goal, [which] was the longer-term positioning of the team," Hilferty said. "As an observer, I appreciated that, it was really encouraging to watch. This is the plan and we're sticking with it. You're right, we were all sad to see Sean go. But the truth is, there's a pick that came from that and there's an opportunity to build towards the future."

Jones: Flyers were a playoff team with Walker, didn't forget rebuild

Keith Jones believes the Flyers were a playoff team with Sean Walker, but also knows the organization couldn’t disregard the rebuild at the trade deadline.

www.nbcsportsphiladelphia.com

"I think the one indicator on the timeline that's out there for everyone to see is the money that we have tied up right now for players that aren't playing for our team," Jones said. "A lot of that is going to start to come off of the cap. I do think that, if you're looking further down the line, that is where we're going to start to have some real key decisions to make. We have to get them right. There's no room for error on whatever players we add to the mix in a couple of years. Those are things that we have to pay a lot of attention to right now. And that's something that we're really focused on."

GDT: - #9 | Canadiens at Flyers | Sunday, October 27, 2024 | 7:00 PM | NBCSP, 93.3 FM

Meltzer from hockeybuzz. I wonder how much Torts spewing this crap led to passing on buium: Today @ 9:11 AM ET The Flyers were never going to repeat their 3 goals on 6 SOG from the other night. Andrae's play makes you wonder why he couldn't get out of the press box earlier in the season. -...

forums.hfboards.com

I asked Jonesy directly. And he confirmed that the messages can coexist in the same realm and not need to result in the Twitter meltdowns that ensued since Jonesy hit the airwaves Thursday morning.

Jonesy confirmed to me directly that the message to the players is to ignore what it said publicly. That as employees of the Philadelphia Flyers their job is to work as hard as possible every day to compete as hard as they can and to believe in what the organization is doing and to contend for a playoff berth and see what happens from there.

As for the rebuild, it’s still happening. That part hasn’t changed because the team has been competitive. The Flyers remain steadfast that they are going to accrue assets for the future at the trade deadline, and they are not deviating from that plan.

Keith Jones' "BS" Quote is a Classic Case of Two Things Being True, Especially for this Flyers Team

Keith Jones was on the WIP morning show Thursday: Here’s Keith Jones, #Flyers POHO, saying on WIP this morning that they told all the players that when they publicly said it was a rebuild it was “BS” Do you think he’s getting carried away because it’s WIP and saying this tongue-in-cheek? I love...

www.crossingbroad.com

 

[Beef Invictus]

Show me where Jones has said there is no rebuild.
I have seen him say there is, I've never seen him say there isn't.
Now he has made noises that it might be faster than expected, but even then, those comments were hedged.

Here's some ACTUAL comments:

"I don't think the messaging should be lost in the fact that we did trade a player for a first-round pick next year in a very important draft," president of hockey operations Keith Jones said Wednesday. "Had Sean Walker stayed with the team, is there three points in there for us? Yes, then we're in the playoffs, we would have battled hard, we would have been a difficult opponent for everyone.

"Does it diminish what our guys accomplished throughout the year? I don't think it does," Jones said. "Does having the 12th pick overall help us in this draft? It does. Is it something that we were hoping for as our guys were battling for the playoffs? No, but we have to make good on it now."

"We never lost sight of the goal, [which] was the longer-term positioning of the team," Hilferty said. "As an observer, I appreciated that, it was really encouraging to watch. This is the plan and we're sticking with it. You're right, we were all sad to see Sean go. But the truth is, there's a pick that came from that and there's an opportunity to build towards the future."

Jones: Flyers were a playoff team with Walker, didn't forget rebuild

Keith Jones believes the Flyers were a playoff team with Sean Walker, but also knows the organization couldn’t disregard the rebuild at the trade deadline.

www.nbcsportsphiladelphia.com

"I think the one indicator on the timeline that's out there for everyone to see is the money that we have tied up right now for players that aren't playing for our team," Jones said. "A lot of that is going to start to come off of the cap. I do think that, if you're looking further down the line, that is where we're going to start to have some real key decisions to make. We have to get them right. There's no room for error on whatever players we add to the mix in a couple of years. Those are things that we have to pay a lot of attention to right now. And that's something that we're really focused on."

GDT: - #9 | Canadiens at Flyers | Sunday, October 27, 2024 | 7:00 PM | NBCSP, 93.3 FM

Meltzer from hockeybuzz. I wonder how much Torts spewing this crap led to passing on buium: Today @ 9:11 AM ET The Flyers were never going to repeat their 3 goals on 6 SOG from the other night. Andrae's play makes you wonder why he couldn't get out of the press box earlier in the season. -...

forums.hfboards.com

I asked Jonesy directly. And he confirmed that the messages can coexist in the same realm and not need to result in the Twitter meltdowns that ensued since Jonesy hit the airwaves Thursday morning.

Jonesy confirmed to me directly that the message to the players is to ignore what it said publicly. That as employees of the Philadelphia Flyers their job is to work as hard as possible every day to compete as hard as they can and to believe in what the organization is doing and to contend for a playoff berth and see what happens from there.

As for the rebuild, it’s still happening. That part hasn’t changed because the team has been competitive. The Flyers remain steadfast that they are going to accrue assets for the future at the trade deadline, and they are not deviating from that plan.

Keith Jones' "BS" Quote is a Classic Case of Two Things Being True, Especially for this Flyers Team

Keith Jones was on the WIP morning show Thursday: Here’s Keith Jones, #Flyers POHO, saying on WIP this morning that they told all the players that when they publicly said it was a rebuild it was “BS” Do you think he’s getting carried away because it’s WIP and saying this tongue-in-cheek? I love...

www.crossingbroad.com

He hopped on a podcast and admitted he'd assured the players there was no rebuild, that it was a lie to appease the fans.


You know how we know that's the truth? Everything they have done is in line with going for it and not rebuilding. Nothing they have done fits a rebuild.

 

[deadhead]

He hopped on a podcast and admitted he'd assured the players there was no rebuild, that it was a lie to appease the fans.


You know how we know that's the truth? Everything they have done is in line with going for it and not rebuilding. Nothing they have done fits a rebuild.

No. Everything they do is in line with rebuilding.

Accumulating (6) 1st rd and (6) 2nd rd picks over three drafts.
Not signing or trading for a center when it's a dire need if they want to make the playoffs.
Letting Drysdale play through his growing pains even if it costs them games.
Putting Michkov on the 1st line instead of a sheltered role despite the fact that his inexperience has resulted in numerous mistakes.

All you can point to is not trading Seeler and Hathaway for mid-round picks, and Laughton for a 2nd? rd pick. And all three may still end up being traded over the next two seasons.

 

[Beef Invictus]

No. Everything they do is in line with rebuilding.

Accumulating (6) 1st rd and (6) 2nd rd picks over three drafts.
Not signing or trading for a center when it's a dire need if they want to make the playoffs.
Letting Drysdale play through his growing pains even if it costs them games.
Putting Michkov on the 1st line instead of a sheltered role despite the fact that his inexperience has resulted in numerous mistakes.

All you can point to is not trading Seeler and Hathaway for mid-round picks, and Laughton for a 2nd? rd pick. And all three may still end up being traded over the next two seasons.

Keeping Laughton, extending Seeler and Hathaway, extending Tippett into eternity, drafting for current and immediate fit with no regard for the future when you have needs everywhere, constantly playing veterans over youth to win anything they can, buying at the deadline, and pushing for the playoffs is completely incompatible with rebuilding.

There is no reason to believe they actually pick players with the picks they've accumulated. Past trends show they quite likely will not. That's not very rebuildy.

None of what you listed particularly screams "rebuild." Drysdale, for instance, is going to be pure ego at this point. They need him to pan out now. For themselves. Also, since you mention him, the fact that they emphasized getting someone who can play immediately over better future assets is not rebuildy.

Not signing or trading for a center is as likely to be pure incompetence as anything else. Hardly works as proof of anything.

You have claimed they're rebuilding every single year for 4 years now. You have been wrong every year. They have changed nothing about their approach in that time. And deep down, you know this. Because you keep changing the start of this mythical rebuild to reflect a present time.

2020: They are starting the rebuild. The youth will play. They will sell and hoard picks and use them on BPA.
2021: OK now they have begun doing that
2022: OK now they have begun doing that
2023: OK now they have begun doing that
2024: OK now they have begun doing that

They never actually began. They still haven't.

 

[freakydallas13]

No. Everything they do is in line with rebuilding.

EVERYTHING, huh?

Citation needed.

 

[Beef Invictus]

EVERYTHING, huh?

Citation needed.

Trying everything they could to keep Walker and only trading him when they couldn't, clearly a rebuild move.

 

[kudymen]

I’m old enough to remember these quotes which painted Dave Scott and Hilferty as only running the Flyers and their extended hockey operations. Now? They’re super busy and barely even look at those things.

Funny thing you don't even have to be "old enough", you literally posted less than a week ago. Guy looks busy

Skin crawling.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Trying everything they could to keep Walker and only trading him when they couldn't, clearly a rebuild move.

#rebuild complete.. we moved 1 player..

 

[Ironmanrulez]

Jones confirmed there is no rebuild. It was a lie all along to try and scam some money from gullible fans, and at this point lives only in your imagination.

ive read this 1000 times. Do we have a source for that. It seems i missed that.
Sure we all see it with the actions the franchise is doing. But did he really said it word for word?

 

[ybnvs]

Show me where Jones has said there is no rebuild.

ive read this 1000 times. Do we have a source for that. It seems i missed that.
Sure we all see it with the actions the franchise is doing. But did he really said it word for word?

https://x.com/i/web/status/1763195485018358176

“I would say marginally," Jonesy said when asked if the Flyers have exceeded his expectations this season when joining the Joe DeCamara, Jon Ritchie, James Seltzer, and Rhea Hughes back in-studio on Thursday's 94WIP Morning Show.

“I'm not surprised where they're at. I'm not surprised with how they compete for one another. I think I knew that part would be OK. I felt really confident about that going in and Danny [Briere] and I talked about it a lot before the season started and we talked with players individually—we’re saying one thing to everyone as far as our messaging that we’re rebuilding, but we made sure to tell everyone on the team that’s BS.”

 

[Ironmanrulez]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1763195485018358176

“I would say marginally," Jonesy said when asked if the Flyers have exceeded his expectations this season when joining the Joe DeCamara, Jon Ritchie, James Seltzer, and Rhea Hughes back in-studio on Thursday's 94WIP Morning Show.

“I'm not surprised where they're at. I'm not surprised with how they compete for one another. I think I knew that part would be OK. I felt really confident about that going in and Danny [Briere] and I talked about it a lot before the season started and we talked with players individually—we’re saying one thing to everyone as far as our messaging that we’re rebuilding, but we made sure to tell everyone on the team that’s BS.”

Thx for the find. Thats so ..... flyers

 

[CerpinTaxt]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1763195485018358176

“I would say marginally," Jonesy said when asked if the Flyers have exceeded his expectations this season when joining the Joe DeCamara, Jon Ritchie, James Seltzer, and Rhea Hughes back in-studio on Thursday's 94WIP Morning Show.

“I'm not surprised where they're at. I'm not surprised with how they compete for one another. I think I knew that part would be OK. I felt really confident about that going in and Danny [Briere] and I talked about it a lot before the season started and we talked with players individually—we’re saying one thing to everyone as far as our messaging that we’re rebuilding, but we made sure to tell everyone on the team that’s BS.”

Now that I see this again I'm baffled. Why come out and admit they were lying? What's the end goal there? Were they expecting the arena to be packed if the fans thought there wasn't a rebuild anymore.

 

[deadhead]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1763195485018358176

“I would say marginally," Jonesy said when asked if the Flyers have exceeded his expectations this season when joining the Joe DeCamara, Jon Ritchie, James Seltzer, and Rhea Hughes back in-studio on Thursday's 94WIP Morning Show.

“I'm not surprised where they're at. I'm not surprised with how they compete for one another. I think I knew that part would be OK. I felt really confident about that going in and Danny [Briere] and I talked about it a lot before the season started and we talked with players individually—we’re saying one thing to everyone as far as our messaging that we’re rebuilding, but we made sure to tell everyone on the team that’s BS.”

And as I showed, that was in the context of not telling the players they could glide through the season because it's a "rebuild." But as Jones also pointed out, if the goal was the playoffs, they never would have traded Walker.

One reason bad teams remain bad is that the players get the message that winning doesn't matter, so they don't put the effort into improving their game and lack the mindset to compete even when they have sufficient raw talent on the team. That's what Jones did not want to see on the Flyers.

Teams don't "flip a switch," learning to win is the hardest part of turning around a franchise.
Look at Carolina, BrindA'mour comes in and they do a 180, it wasn't because they had a huge influx of talent, it was because he wouldn't accept losing. They had the talent, they needed an attitude adjustment.

2017-18 Carolina 36-35-11 83 points
Staal (29), Lindholm (23), Aho (20), Teravainen (23), Skinner (25), J Williams (36), Ryan (31), McGinn (23), Rask (24), Nordstrom (25) [Wallmark (22), Foegle (21), Roy (20), Necas (19]
Slavin (23), Faulk (25), Hanifin (21), Pesce (23), TVR (26), Fleury (21)
Ward (33), Darling (29)

2018-19 Carolina 46-29-7 99 points
5/3/18 Kruger and 3rd for Martinhook and 4th
6/23/18 Hanifin & Lindholm for Hamilton, Ferland & Fox
#2 Svechnikov RW
7/1/18 Mrazek G FA
7/3/18 De Haan D FA
10/2/18 selected McElhinney off waivers
1/17/19 Rask for Niederreiter
Foegle moved into the lineup on the 3/4th line

One big trade where they moved out two top 5 picks.
A talented 18 year old forward who put up 20-12 32 at ES
Mrazek as your starting goalie (we know he didn't make them a winner)
Basically the same level of talent as the previous season with some tweaks.