GDT: #9 ⋅ ANA @ NYI ⋅ 4:00 PM PDT

[LuGBuG]

We are 4-4-1 and we can’t score. Imagine when the offense starts clicking more and the goals start going in. With Dostal in net and some offense we can be a real frisky team.

 

[JAHV]

Killorn still seems like he's killing plays. I wasn't able to watch the whole game last night, but there was one shift in particular where he couldn't handle a breakout pass. Then the Ducks got the puck back and he fumbled another pass in the neutral zone. The puck luckily went to a teammate who broke into the zone, drew two defenders and tried to drop it to Killorn who had, for some reason, skated toward one of the defenders rather than taking the space his teammate had made for him. Killorn recovered the puck in the neutral zone and skated with it for a while before either making a bad pass or ineffective dump-in, I forget which.

It was a depressingly bad series of events which was emblematic of his entire season so far. Killorn didn't just forget how to play hockey, so I'm baffled as to what's going on. Does he really have zero chemistry with anyone other than Carlsson (who seems like he can create chemistry with everyone)?

 

[Reveille1984]

Given how our offense has performed over the past half decade, I'd say expecting the goals to flow or some magic clicking is probably a pipe dream. :

Season	GF/GP
2019-2020	2.56
2020-2021	2.21
2021-2022	2.78
2022-2023	2.51
2023-2024	2.48
2024-2025	2.35

I guess optimistically a lot of our forwards couldn't really be playing any worse, but in general watching whatever offensive "system" we're running under Cronin has been pretty gross.

 

[91Fedorov]

Killorn still seems like he's killing plays. I wasn't able to watch the whole game last night, but there was one shift in particular where he couldn't handle a breakout pass. Then the Ducks got the puck back and he fumbled another pass in the neutral zone. The puck luckily went to a teammate who broke into the zone, drew two defenders and tried to drop it to Killorn who had, for some reason, skated toward one of the defenders rather than taking the space his teammate had made for him. Killorn recovered the puck in the neutral zone and skated with it for a while before either making a bad pass or ineffective dump-in, I forget which.

It was a depressingly bad series of events which was emblematic of his entire season so far. Killorn didn't just forget how to play hockey, so I'm baffled as to what's going on. Does he really have zero chemistry with anyone other than Carlsson (who seems like he can create chemistry with everyone)?

It's way too common for guys to fall off for a year after getting married. I don't know why, but it does seem to happen. Terry, now Killorn.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Given how our offense has performed over the past half decade, I'd say expecting the goals to flow or some magic clicking is probably a pipe dream. :

Season	GF/GP
2019-2020	2.56
2020-2021	2.21
2021-2022	2.78
2022-2023	2.51
2023-2024	2.48
2024-2025	2.35

I guess optimistically a lot of our forwards couldn't really be playing any worse, but in general watching whatever offensive "system" we're running under Cronin has been pretty gross.

I expanded on your table to include the NHL average GF/GP as a sort of reference as to how we fare in the league. I used Hockey-Reference.com as the source.

Ducks	Scoring	Avg
Season	Games	Ducks GF/GP		NHL GF Avg	NHL GF/GP Avg	Diff
2019-20	82​	2.56​		208​	2.54​	0.02​
2020-21 COVID	56​	2.21​		162​	2.89​	-0.68​
2021-22	82​	2.78​		255​	3.11​	-0.33​
2022-23	82​	2.51​		258​	3.15​	-0.64​
2023-24	82​	2.48​		253​	3.09​	-0.61​
2024-25	9​	2.35​		31​	3.44​	-1.09​

Yikes! Our scoring is that bad to start this season. If it wasn't for Dostal's heroics, then we would not be a .500 Pts % team today.

 

[Deuce22]

I expanded on your table to include the NHL average GF/GP as a sort of reference as to how we fare in the league. I used Hockey-Reference.com as the source.

Ducks	Scoring	Avg
Season	Games	Ducks GF/GP		NHL GF Avg	NHL GF/GP Avg	Diff
2019-20	82​	2.56​		208​	2.54​	0.02​
2020-21 COVID	56​	2.21​		162​	2.89​	-0.68​
2021-22	82​	2.78​		255​	3.11​	-0.33​
2022-23	82​	2.51​		258​	3.15​	-0.64​
2023-24	82​	2.48​		253​	3.09​	-0.61​
2024-25	9​	2.35​		31​	3.44​	-1.09​

Yikes! Our scoring is that bad to start this season. If it wasn't for Dostal's heroics, then we would not be a .500 Pts % team today.

It’s pretty obvious that Cronin was hired to build a defensive mindset/culture in the organization. I have to assume this is what Verbeek wants. We may not agree with this direction or philosophy but shouldn’t be surprised that offense has tanked as a result of this. It would be more fun if Ducks were scoring more goals, losing 7-5 instead of 3-1 but we’ve been there already.

 

[JAHV]

It’s pretty obvious that Cronin was hired to build a defensive mindset/culture in the organization. I have to assume this is what Verbeek wants. We may not agree with this direction or philosophy but shouldn’t be surprised that offense has tanked as a result of this. It would be more fun if Ducks were scoring more goals, losing 7-5 instead of 3-1 but we’ve been there already.

Perhaps I misunderstand your comment, but as the chart above shows, we've never been losing 7-5. Under Eakins, we were losing 5-1 instead of 3-1, with the occasional 6-2 thrown in. The offense hasn't even approached mediocre since Boudreau left**.

I do agree with you on Cronin, though. I think it might be more of a work ethic/compete mindset, but inherent in that is playing a defensive style game. Unfortunately, their defense is still pretty bad.

** That's only a slight exaggeration. They approached mediocre in Carlyle's first two return seasons when Getzlaf was still in his prime. They were 17th and 18th in goals those two seasons.

 

[Deuce22]

Perhaps I misunderstand your comment, but as the chart above shows, we've never been losing 7-5. Under Eakins, we were losing 5-1 instead of 3-1, with the occasional 6-2 thrown in. The offense hasn't even approached mediocre since Boudreau left**.

I do agree with you on Cronin, though. I think it might be more of a work ethic/compete mindset, but inherent in that is playing a defensive style game. Unfortunately, their defense is still pretty bad.

** That's only a slight exaggeration. They approached mediocre in Carlyle's first two return seasons when Getzlaf was still in his prime. They were 17th and 18th in goals those two seasons.

There have been posters arguing that Cronin has suppressed offense for certain Ducks. Their stats (under Eakins) have been cited as evidence. My impression of Eakins’ teams was that they were undisciplined and defensively clueless. They wouldn’t quit and would score goals late in games where they had been blown out. I think Cronin was hired as a (supposed) antidote to the Eakins culture.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

It’s pretty obvious that Cronin was hired to build a defensive mindset/culture in the organization. I have to assume this is what Verbeek wants. We may not agree with this direction or philosophy but shouldn’t be surprised that offense has tanked as a result of this. It would be more fun if Ducks were scoring more goals, losing 7-5 instead of 3-1 but we’ve been there already.

Defensive mindset, you say?

Ducks	Pre- and Post	TDL	Splits
Season	Subject	Games	GF	GF/GP		GA	GA/GP
2021-22	pre-TDL	62​	180​	2.90​		197​	3.18​
	post-TDL	20​	52​	2.60​		74​	3.70​
2022-23	pre-TDL	63​	161​	2.56​		257​	4.08​
	post-TDL	19​	48​	2.53​		81​	4.26​
2023-24	pre-TDL	62​	164​	2.65​		217​	3.50​
	post-TDL	20​	40​	2.00​		78​	3.90​

Since you're bring up recent history, we had a defensive-mindset in 2021-22 pre-TDL and our offense didn't take a hit. We lost 3 more games last year, 2023-24, than the previous season ... and that's with a vastly superior roster upgrade last year.

This year is an odd start. We're Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde defensively. In games we've allowed 3 or more goals, we're 1-3-1. In games we've allowed 2 goals or fewer, we're 3-1-0. We are on both sides of the extremes, which implies we lack consistency of a defensive mindset. Source: Hockey-Reference.com

Shots Averages after 9 games:

• SF = 26.78
• SA = 34.67
• Shot differential = -7.89

With a negative Shot differential average being that wide as well as given up 40+ SOG in two games already, I don't think our defense is all that. It isn't like we're countering offensively with those 40+ shots against games. I would say that Dostal is our defense and we are fortunate to not give up more goals.

 

[Deuce22]

Defensive mindset, you say?

Ducks	Pre- and Post	TDL	Splits
Season	Subject	Games	GF	GF/GP		GA	GA/GP
2021-22	pre-TDL	62​	180​	2.90​		197​	3.18​
	post-TDL	20​	52​	2.60​		74​	3.70​
2022-23	pre-TDL	63​	161​	2.56​		257​	4.08​
	post-TDL	19​	48​	2.53​		81​	4.26​
2023-24	pre-TDL	62​	164​	2.65​		217​	3.50​
	post-TDL	20​	40​	2.00​		78​	3.90​

Since you're bring up recent history, we had a defensive-mindset in 2021-22 pre-TDL and our offense didn't take a hit. We lost 3 more games last year, 2023-24, than the previous season ... and that's with a vastly superior roster upgrade last year.

This year is an odd start. We're Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde defensively. In games we've allowed 3 or more goals, we're 1-3-1. In games we've allowed 2 goals or fewer, we're 3-1-0. We are on both sides of the extremes, which implies we lack consistency of a defensive mindset. Source: Hockey-Reference.com

View attachment 923972

Shots Averages after 9 games:

• SF = 26.78
• SA = 34.67
• Shot differential = -7.89

With a negative Shot differential average being that wide as well as given up 40+ SOG in two games already, I don't think our defense is all that. It isn't like we're countering offensively with those 40+ shots against games. I would say that Dostal is our defense and we are fortunate to not give up more goals.

I didn't say that it was successful or that I liked it. I said it's why they are trying to instill. I don't like the man to man let the other team play with the puck style in the D zone. Ducks are giving up a ton of shots and Dostal is the reason why we're competitive in games. I was arguing that it isn't surprising that some players aren't scoring at the same rate they did under Eakins. Verbeek/Cronin are ATTEMPTING to change the culture to a defensive mindset. They obviously aren't there yet.

 

[HanSolo]

It’s pretty obvious that Cronin was hired to build a defensive mindset/culture in the organization. I have to assume this is what Verbeek wants. We may not agree with this direction or philosophy but shouldn’t be surprised that offense has tanked as a result of this. It would be more fun if Ducks were scoring more goals, losing 7-5 instead of 3-1 but we’ve been there already.

Well it would be nice if that direction actually yielded results. It's a little better than under Eakins but a little better than historically bad is still pretty goddamn bad. After last night's game, Anaheim gives up the third most shots on goal per game and is only a fraction lower than Detroit. A whole shot on goal per game against higher than the next worst team, Calgary.

The Ducks having the 6th lowest goals against per game thus far is more of a testament to how brilliant Dostal has been than it is a feather in Cronin's cap.

Edit: didn't read the above post first.

 

[ScarTroy]

The real issue is the total ineptitude on offense, breakouts and faceoffs. Our system is try to breakout from the defensive end, miss the pass and ice it. Then lose the face off and repeat. When we finally do break out, they cross the blue line in a straight line with no pass options, dump the puck, lazily forecheck, and then back to the defensive end for another minute plus until they can dump the puck for a line change.

I’m not as concerned about the defensive system bleeding shots, a competent offensive system and winning just league average faceoffs would help that tremendously.

 

[robbieboy3686]

I have a conspiracy.

The Ducks have intentionally hired a very defensive coach and is intentionally sacrificing points while teaching our kids to buy in defensively so when they have to sign our stars to big contracts we will get these guys at a steal. Then we will switch to a more well rounded coach and our scoring will take off with all of these kids on bargain contracts and taught to play very hard in the d zone.

I swear this has crossed my mind as well

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

We are 4-4-1 and we can’t score. Imagine when the offense starts clicking more and the goals start going in. With Dostal in net and some offense we can be a real frisky team.

Vatrano killorn gauthier zegras and mctavish if I’m not mistaken have 3 goals combined(all empty netter) that’s got to change

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I didn't say that it was successful or that I liked it. I said it's why they are trying to instill. I don't like the man to man let the other team play with the puck style in the D zone. Ducks are giving up a ton of shots and Dostal is the reason why we're competitive in games. I was arguing that it isn't surprising that some players aren't scoring at the same rate they did under Eakins. Verbeek/Cronin are ATTEMPTING to change the culture to a defensive mindset. They obviously aren't there yet.

I believe any coach after Eakins is Verbeek changing directions. It doesn't have to be Cronin. That's just common sense. What isn't common sense was Verbeek choosing to keep Eakins an extra year. I was expecting a new coach for the 2022-23 season.

You're coming up with an idea that isn't substantiated. You've taking a stat result from the table and trying to rationalize it as if it were the original reason. I call bullshit on it.

I got receipts about the change in culture and it isn't "defensive mindset". Verbeek hired Cronin based upon accountability, compete, and work ethic. The video should start at 19:23.

 

[JAHV]

There have been posters arguing that Cronin has suppressed offense for certain Ducks. Their stats (under Eakins) have been cited as evidence. My impression of Eakins’ teams was that they were undisciplined and defensively clueless. They wouldn’t quit and would score goals late in games where they had been blown out. I think Cronin was hired as a (supposed) antidote to the Eakins culture.

This is not directed at you by any means because I've seen the bolded from many people. I'm just responding to that notion. Am I the only one who never saw "they wouldn't quit" under Eakins? There were many games where they got down early and looked like they gave up. I could be totally mistaken, but I feel like I've seen more consistent effort from the team in the last two years under Cronin than under Eakins.

Just some basic stats that might not mean anything:

• 2023 goal differential by period (Cronin): 3rd period: -23; 2nd: -39; 1st: -30
• 2022 (Eakins): 3rd: -41, 2nd: -48; 1st: -38
• 2021 (Eakins): 3rd: -17; 2nd: -5; 1st: -3
• 2020 (Eakins): 3rd: -31; 2nd: -13; 1st: -8
• 2019 (Eakins): 3rd: -26; 2nd: -8; 1st: -1

In three out of four seasons under Eakins, the third period was the worst, often by far. Conversely, Cronin's third periods last year were the best (they are not thus far this season, for what that's worth, although they have been the team's highest scoring period).

Anyway, there's probably a ton of noise influencing those numbers, and I'm sorry for bringing Eakins back up, but I just never understood the sentiment that the team played really hard for him even when they were getting blown out. Those numbers, flimsy as they might be, support my confusion at that idea.

 

[Leonardo87]

Eakins and Cronin are both terrible . Need to get someone with years of experience.
Heck, if Torts is ever free would sign him. I honestly think he’d be good for Zegras.

 

[Hey234]

Killorn still seems like he's killing plays. I wasn't able to watch the whole game last night, but there was one shift in particular where he couldn't handle a breakout pass. Then the Ducks got the puck back and he fumbled another pass in the neutral zone. The puck luckily went to a teammate who broke into the zone, drew two defenders and tried to drop it to Killorn who had, for some reason, skated toward one of the defenders rather than taking the space his teammate had made for him. Killorn recovered the puck in the neutral zone and skated with it for a while before either making a bad pass or ineffective dump-in, I forget which.

It was a depressingly bad series of events which was emblematic of his entire season so far. Killorn didn't just forget how to play hockey, so I'm baffled as to what's going on. Does he really have zero chemistry with anyone other than Carlsson (who seems like he can create chemistry with everyone)?

I specifically remember the shift you described because I couldn't believe the number of mistakes in a row. He is genuinely killing most plays and it just doesn't make any sense.

It's one thing if he's slowed down, or his shot is missing the net, or he's losing battles because he's not a strong anymore. Those are all age related issues and they would make sense. The issue is his decision making. He keeps throwing pucks in bad places, or going to wrong spots on the ice, not receiving passes cleaning, and fumbling the puck. It's confusing because it's like he forgot how to play.

 

[Deuce22]

I believe any coach after Eakins is Verbeek changing directions. It doesn't have to be Cronin. That's just common sense. What isn't common sense was Verbeek choosing to keep Eakins an extra year. I was expecting a new coach for the 2022-23 season.

You're coming up with an idea that isn't substantiated. You've taking a stat result from the table and trying to rationalize it as if it were the original reason. I call bullshit on it.

I got receipts about the change in culture and it isn't "defensive mindset". Verbeek hired Cronin based upon accountability, compete, and work ethic. The video should start at 19:23.

I’m not basing my opinion on something said in a presser, 90% of which is basically BS. I’m basing it on what I see in games. Citing what GM’s and coaches say to fans and the media as “receipts” is hilarious. It’s mostly PR and spin.

 

[lwvs84]

Fabbri and Carlsson work, Strome and Terry work... Killorn doesn't work with anyone. Restructure the lines based on that.

Vatrano/McTavish Carlsson Fabbri (a shooter and a guy that hounds the puck with Carlsson)

Lundestrom Zegras Vatrano/McTavish (Lundestrom has looked dangerous at times, brings defense and speed. Gives Zegras a shooter on the other side and moves him to C. Lundestrom can take faceoffs too)

Gauthier Strome Terry (maybe moving Cutter down helps, and with the way Terry is playing I don't know if it matters who's on the other wing of he's getting ready matchups)

Killorn McGinn Leason (gets Killorn reduced minutes away from lines he's hurting until he gets his game together).

First injury, call up Colangelo and put him in that top 9 over Lundestrom, he seems to be earning a shot.