#87 Sidney Crosby Milestone Thread - History will be made (600 goals, 1600 points)

mobilus

Five and a game
Jan 6, 2009
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high slot
Your original post implied that somehow because the NHL was a 21 team league that it was harder to score in and you are factually wrong there.
I implied it wasn't the cake walk it's often made out to be. You had smaller goalies with smaller gear, you also had less dilution.

Also your post above you talk about Messier and Yzerman playing in the dead puck era, sure when they were like 35 and 30.
If we start the dead puck around '95, Messier played about a third of his career in that era, Yzerman about half, Sakic more than half and Jagr about three quarters or better. I think my saying a 'fair amount' is reasonable.

As to the skating issue it's not just that its that everyone can skate and check now teams play structured defensive systems everyone blocks shots and fills lanes, watching in the 70s and 80s I know the difference in gameplay and makes me wonder if you do?
Some teams did play systems, believe it or not. The Habs and Islanders didn't each win 4 Cups in a row by having no structure. Jacques Lemaire, god to the neutral zone trap that he introduced with the Devils mid-90s, mentioned in an interview that it originated with him and a half dozen other Canadiens in the '70s as a way to try and contain Orr, since Lemaire couldn't do it on his own.

Is McDavid a product of system coaching, or is he just McDavid? Defensive systems can squelch the offense of middling players, but every now and then a talent comes through that cannot be contained for long by any one system, simply because those playing the system are a tier below in talent to the player they're trying to contain.

Crosby's one of those guys, and so are the eight who've already accomplished this feat. That's all I was trying to say, without blowing the others off as if they had it easy because scoring levels were different in their day. Gretzky, Lemieux, Sakic, Yzerman, Messier and Jagr all carried part of their careers thru the dead puck and still managed the feat. This isn't an accomplishment of era, it's an accomplishment of skill + desire + longevity.
 

Honour Over Glory

#firesully
Jan 30, 2012
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I don't think anyone saw this coming. The longevity, the adaptation to the modern game, the consistency. There was a time mostly everyone thought his career was over due to the concussions. It's beyond impressive what he has done and how good a year he's had. Legend.
I mean outside of the Penguins fans? Maybe some are shocked?

If anything we still wonder how insane Crosby's numbers were going to be in those years robbed of him where he was on pace for 130+ in multiple seasons and if there's one player you would 100% believe would achieve those numbers at that pace at that time, it's Crosby. I think a lot still struggle with the version of Crosby that came out of that injury vs the version we still discuss as Penguins fans.

Crosby before that injury was a production monster, Crosby after that was this changed elite grinder type that analysts wax poetic about while producing elite numbers basically his entire career.
 

pi314

Registered User
Jun 10, 2017
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Windsor, ON
It's always a good reminder that the vast majority of the forum doesn't know how to skate and a very small percentage have ever played important hockey.

I've played beer league against 45 year old career minor leaguers. And they looked like McDavid out there.

Can confirm.

Am friends with a 14-year veteran 3rd/4th liner.

He’s 20 years past his prime and it’s still like playing against a Harlem Globe Trotter on ice.
 

the valiant effort

settle down, bud
Apr 17, 2017
4,870
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Sorry, boys, up until whenever, all NHLers were part-time plumbers. Why 20 year-old Sakic could barely outscore 37 year-old Sakic, we'll just never know.
 

Slimmy

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Jan 3, 2009
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I implied it wasn't the cake walk it's often made out to be. You had smaller goalies with smaller gear, you also had less dilution.


If we start the dead puck around '95, Messier played about a third of his career in that era, Yzerman about half, Sakic more than half and Jagr about three quarters or better. I think my saying a 'fair amount' is reasonable.


Some teams did play systems, believe it or not. The Habs and Islanders didn't each win 4 Cups in a row by having no structure. Jacques Lemaire, god to the neutral zone trap that he introduced with the Devils mid-90s, mentioned in an interview that it originated with him and a half dozen other Canadiens in the '70s as a way to try and contain Orr, since Lemaire couldn't do it on his own.

Is McDavid a product of system coaching, or is he just McDavid? Defensive systems can squelch the offense of middling players, but every now and then a talent comes through that cannot be contained for long by any one system, simply because those playing the system are a tier below in talent to the player they're trying to contain.

Crosby's one of those guys, and so are the eight who've already accomplished this feat. That's all I was trying to say, without blowing the others off as if they had it easy because scoring levels were different in their day. Gretzky, Lemieux, Sakic, Yzerman, Messier and Jagr all carried part of their careers thru the dead puck and still managed the feat. This isn't an accomplishment of era, it's an accomplishment of skill + desire + longevity.
Peter Forsberg started his NHL career in the 94/95 season. He played out his prime years at the height of the dead puck era. He would have absolutely manhandled the league if he played out his prime in todays NHL.
 
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Calderon

Registered User
Mar 24, 2006
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Was reading the recent Penguins/Sullivan thread for a bit. So Crosby lost his confidant and battle brother in Guentzel. At the same time Pens are in a rut, almost sure to miss the playoffs again and all this can be seen in Sid's body language. Currently has 64 points in 63 games. That means his continus string of 1.0+ ppg seasons might be in jeopardy. Will he continue to light it up without Guentzel? Will he start to taper off and not care about the record? Joining the Avs certainly would've kept his humor and scoring up, methinks, but being the clear cut #1 guy might be something he's keen to hold on to -- in addition to staying at home, that is.
 

BallardEra

Leafs&Caps Since 1982™
Dec 26, 2017
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Was reading the recent Penguins/Sullivan thread for a bit. So Crosby lost his confidant and battle brother in Guentzel. At the same time Pens are in a rut, almost sure to miss the playoffs again and all this can be seen in Sid's body language. Currently has 64 points in 63 games. That means his continus string of 1.0+ ppg seasons might be in jeopardy. Will he continue to light it up without Guentzel? Will he start to taper off and not care about the record? Joining the Avs certainly would've kept his humor and scoring up, methinks, but being the clear cut #1 guy might be something he's keen to hold on to -- in addition to staying at home, that is.
Only 2 assists over his last 7 games and I’d call it a slump with what’s going on around the team.


I say once the dust settles and the reality kicks in that he will be fine.
 

kugelbahn

Registered User
Feb 15, 2018
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Peter Forsberg started his NHL career in the 94/95 season. He played out his prime years at the height of the dead puck era. He would have absolutely manhandled the league if he played out his prime in todays NHL.
Btw, today Crosby fell behind Forsberg and below 1.25 ppg to number 9 on all-time list
 
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BallardEra

Leafs&Caps Since 1982™
Dec 26, 2017
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Btw, today Crosby fell behind Forsberg and below 1.25 ppg to number 9 on all-time list
Only natural for that to fall as he ages.

He has definitely cooled off after a strong start but that's to be expected for a 36 year old.
 

Hockey Outsider

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Jan 16, 2005
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Crosby and Letang have now collaborated on 300 goals (regular season only). That's the 4th most prolific F/D partnership in NHL history - behind only Gretzky/Coffey (350), Esposito/Orr (306), and Kopitar/Doughty (302). Trottier/Potvin is a distant 5th place (250).

Credit to @pnep for doing this research.
 

Roksta

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Jul 27, 2011
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Btw, today Crosby fell behind Forsberg and below 1.25 ppg to number 9 on all-time list

I wonder what Crosby's PPG would be if he only played 708 games? Why is Forsberg even mentioned in this thread he's not Crosby caliber
 
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Rodgerwilco

Entertainment boards w/ some Hockey mixed in.
Feb 6, 2014
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Crosby and Letang have now collaborated on 300 goals (regular season only). That's the 4th most prolific F/D partnership in NHL history - behind only Gretzky/Coffey (350), Esposito/Orr (306), and Kopitar/Doughty (302). Trottier/Potvin is a distant 5th place (250).

Credit to @pnep for doing this research.
You'd have to think that they'll be able to reach at least 2nd in this category.
 

Toby91ca

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Oct 17, 2022
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If we start the dead puck around '95, Messier played about a third of his career in that era, Yzerman about half, Sakic more than half and Jagr about three quarters or better. I think my saying a 'fair amount' is reasonable.
But we didn't start the dead puck era around '95, it as the 97/98 season and lasted for 7 seasons. So, Messier was 36 years old at the start of it, turning 37 that season. So yeah, Messier played close to a third of his career in that era (a bit less), but it was from age 36-43 and it was offset by him playing the other 2/3+ of his career is very high scoring years. Same for Yzerman and Sakic....again, only about 1/3 of their careers, with them having higher scoring years early and late in their careers. Jagr same thing.....though not as big of a portion of his career since he played so many years.

Crosby, on average, played in much lower scoring years than all of these guys. We saw the same 7 year type lull in the 2010s and that 7 year low wasn't quite as low in as in the late 90s (2.74 goals per game vs. 2.66 in the 90s) but it's surrounded much much lower scoring years going into that. Crosby started in a year where we saw 3.08gpg, then 2.95, then 2.78, then 2.91, then 2.84...then the 7 year lows came and then we came out of that at 2.97. For the 90s dead puck era we saw years going into that of 3.46, then 3.48, 3.63 and 3.24.
 

Video Nasty

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Mar 12, 2017
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Leave it to MacKinnon and the Avs to play too much in awe of Crosby.

4 point night through two periods, which ties Beliveau for the 19th most 4 point games in NHL history.

Helps get him back at a healthy above PPG for the season in an attempt to keep that streak going.

5 points from passing Bourque for sole possession of 11th all-time. This game gives him a reasonable shot at moving into the top 10 before the season concludes.

Sometimes even I have to comment cleanly when Crosby and Ovechkin are pretending it’s 15 years ago.
 

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