Post-Game Talk: 8 Years, $92 Million

[McRanger92]

Edstrom is another guy where I'm like "you know, he can do some stuff" and he can't crack 10 minutes.

I know his production at lower levels tracks with a 4th liner but he's had to grow into an awkward frame and he's exceeded expectations at every level.

Why not experiment with him? There are parts of the lineup that couldn't get much worse.

People made fun of Fast's offensive ability but the guy has never been a 4th liner anywhere. He also reminds me of Brian Boyle who would give you 13 goals like clockwork. Edstrom has some pop as they would say in baseball.

Edstrom should at minimum be playing center on a line with Chytil(who is becoming unplayable with how bad his defense is). Someone made a joke earlier about the rangers trying to change their prospects into Jesper Fast's like it was an insult. Fast is one of the Rangers best development success stories of the last 25 years and we let him walk to a division rival so we could pay Brendan Lemieux. Our team defense is horrible. Id take 1 fast type player.

The "earn it" culture of the team is such horseshit when Trouba and Panarin and Fox (no offense!) did nothing to "earn" their standing aside from trade requests and massive contracts. Our player development was better under Renney, Torts and AV than it was during the rebuild. It's all fake. The top paid players play the most (effort level irrelevant), the young guys seethe on the bench. And we wonder how we got here.

 

[Machinehead]

For some posters here, if Igor doesn't steal the game playing out of his mind and we lose, then he played like shit, no middle ground.

Correct.

 

[McRanger92]

For some posters here, if Igor doesn't steal the game playing out of his mind and we lose, then he played like shit, no middle ground. Regardless if he did or not. He was average yesterday, but he didn't cost us the game, the game was cost by the top 9 not showing up again and doing nothing on the scoresheet. You have 9 players to blame before Igor on the loss.

Blackwood stole the game more than Igor lost it imo.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

That would be my first on Tinder in about three years, so thank you.

Machinehead being on Tinder is basically why I never succeeded there. Save some women for the rest of us.

 

[Jack Hanson]

He was so good making our players shoot 5 feet wide on every grade A


They were at least entertaining

We had so many chances, and their goalie who I understand gets paid a lot less than Igor really shined. I mean the guy was really good. Igor was below the level of the prior few games. He kinda fell apart at the end. The biggest + for me was realizing the 3 yr 3mm$ contract on Carrick is an absolute steal. We should thank our lucky stars for him bc he just appeared outta nowhere and now hes a ballsy hard core offensive player. The way he handled the puck and fooled the Avs goalie on his breakaway was world class.

 

[CLW]

Correct.

I concur with the assessment that Igor himself forever nuked any talk of middle ground with that contract demand of his.

Igor demanded a God Emperor contract. Now he'll face God Emperor music. I'm sure he'll be crying all the way to the bank.

 

[Machinehead]

Edstrom should at minimum be playing center on a line with Chytil(who is becoming unplayable with how bad his defense is). Someone made a joke earlier about the rangers trying to change their prospects into Jesper Fast's like it was an insult. Fast is one of the Rangers best development success stories of the last 25 years and we let him walk to a division rival so we could pay Brendan Lemieux. Our team defense is horrible. Id take 1 fast type player.

The "earn it" culture of the team is such horseshit when Trouba and Panarin and Fox (no offense!) did nothing to "earn" their standing aside from trade requests and massive contracts. Our player development was better under Renney, Torts and AV than it was during the rebuild. It's all fake. The top paid players play the most (effort level irrelevant), the young guys seethe on the bench. And we wonder how we got here.

Edstrom is the type of guy that Torts would probably overuse. Berard too.

And you know what? Yeah, it would get annoying sometimes. Torts hates offense and gets set in his ways. You're down 2-1 late and here comes a bunch of grinders. We used to complain about it. That's why he hasn't won the Cup in 21 years.

At the same time, though, it would develop into something nice down the line when these haul ass young players were able to set the tone.

We never had that foundational coach. We had David Quinn who was fake, and then we went right into guys who just babysit Cup winners, hold the Cup winner.

 

[Harbour Dog]

What do the little girl and Jokinen reaction faces mean?

I've used Olli a couple times, just because I think it's funny, but no idea what it signifies.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

For some posters here, if Igor doesn't steal the game playing out of his mind and we lose, then he played like shit, no middle ground. Regardless if he did or not. He was average yesterday, but he didn't cost us the game, the game was cost by the top 9 not showing up again and doing nothing on the scoresheet. You have 9 players to blame before Igor on the loss.

What a weird game to post this after. Defense was great most of the game. For some fans unless every single part of the game outside of goalie was perfect it's not Igor's fault.

 

[will1066]

On the tying 6v5 goal, it was inevitable because it resembled the 2014 Final. Unable to get the puck and clear as the other team kept grounding and pounding in the o-zone. Sooner than later, someone's getting caught out of defensive position while chasing the puck and reacting for over a minute.

 

[JohnC]

Like a clock every season Lundqvist had a month to two month long periods of playing like an ass that still didn't take away from him being the best goalie overall during his career. If you don't remember ask @Kovalev27 or @SnowblindNYR

This has always been a fun myth that I wouldn't hate to see debunked. I remember Hank having AT WORST some slow starts to the season. Just doing a quick glance (mostly because I don't feel like doing a deep dive) Hank's sv% going by monthly splits was never below the league average in his career (.911). He certainly never gave up the level of stinkers Shesterkin does in his prime years.

 

[McRanger92]

On the tying 6v5 goal, it was inevitable because it resembled the 2014 Final. Unable to get the puck and clear as the other team kept grounding and pounding in the o-zone. Sooner than later, someone's getting caught out of defensive position while chasing the puck for over a minute.

Spoiler alert: It was Lindgren!

 

[Machinehead]

This has always been a fun myth that I wouldn't hate to see debunked. I remember Hank having AT WORST some slow starts to the season. Just doing a quick glance (mostly because I don't feel like doing a deep dive) Hank's sv% going by monthly splits was never below the league average in his career (.911). He certainly never gave up the level of stinkers Shesterkin does in his prime years.

[td width="30pt"]
Split​

[/td][td width="49pt"]
Value

[/td][td width="25pt"]
GP

[/td][td width="17pt"]
W

[/td][td width="17pt"]
L

[/td][td width="23pt"]
T/O

[/td][td width="22pt"]
GA

[/td][td width="27pt"]
SA

[/td][td width="27pt"]
SV

[/td][td width="9.6387%"]
SV%

[/td][td width="7.9517%"]
GAA

[/td][td width="19pt"]
SO​

[/td]
[td width="30pt"]
Month​

[/td]​

[td width="49pt"]
October

[/td]​

[td width="25pt"]
129

[/td][td width="17pt"]
60

[/td][td width="17pt"]
51

[/td][td width="23pt"]
14

[/td][td width="22pt"]
327

[/td][td width="27pt"]
3852

[/td][td width="27pt"]
3525

[/td][td width="9.6387%"]
0.915

[/td][td width="7.9517%"]
2.59

[/td][td width="19pt"]
9

[/td]​

[td width="30pt"]
​

[/td]​

[td width="49pt"]
November

[/td]​

[td width="25pt"]
145

[/td][td width="17pt"]
87

[/td][td width="17pt"]
44

[/td][td width="23pt"]
10

[/td][td width="22pt"]
328

[/td][td width="27pt"]
4263

[/td][td width="27pt"]
3935

[/td][td width="9.6387%"]
0.923

[/td][td width="7.9517%"]
2.34

[/td][td width="19pt"]
14

[/td]​

[td width="30pt"]
​

[/td]​

[td width="49pt"]
December

[/td]​

[td width="25pt"]
139

[/td][td width="17pt"]
68

[/td][td width="17pt"]
45

[/td][td width="23pt"]
21

[/td][td width="22pt"]
353

[/td][td width="27pt"]
3975

[/td][td width="27pt"]
3622

[/td][td width="9.6387%"]
0.911

[/td][td width="7.9517%"]
2.63

[/td][td width="19pt"]
6

[/td]​

[td width="30pt"]
​

[/td]​

[td width="49pt"]
January

[/td]​

[td width="25pt"]
143

[/td][td width="17pt"]
75

[/td][td width="17pt"]
56

[/td][td width="23pt"]
9

[/td][td width="22pt"]
329

[/td][td width="27pt"]
4018

[/td][td width="27pt"]
3689

[/td][td width="9.6387%"]
0.918

[/td][td width="7.9517%"]
2.37

[/td][td width="19pt"]
11

[/td]​

[td width="30pt"]
​

[/td]​

[td width="49pt"]
February

[/td]​

[td width="25pt"]
120

[/td][td width="17pt"]
62

[/td][td width="17pt"]
43

[/td][td width="23pt"]
13

[/td][td width="22pt"]
272

[/td][td width="27pt"]
3402

[/td][td width="27pt"]
3130

[/td][td width="9.6387%"]
0.920

[/td][td width="7.9517%"]
2.33

[/td][td width="19pt"]
10

[/td]​

[td width="30pt"]
​

[/td]​

[td width="49pt"]
March

[/td]​

[td width="25pt"]
150

[/td][td width="17pt"]
73

[/td][td width="17pt"]
51

[/td][td width="23pt"]
23

[/td][td width="22pt"]
359

[/td][td width="27pt"]
4350

[/td][td width="27pt"]
3991

[/td][td width="9.6387%"]
0.917

[/td][td width="7.9517%"]
2.44

[/td][td width="19pt"]
10

[/td]​

[td width="30pt"]
​

[/td]​

[td width="49pt"]
April

[/td]​

[td width="25pt"]
61

[/td][td width="17pt"]
34

[/td][td width="17pt"]
20

[/td][td width="23pt"]
6

[/td][td width="22pt"]
133

[/td][td width="27pt"]
1750

[/td][td width="27pt"]
1617

[/td][td width="9.6387%"]
0.924

[/td][td width="7.9517%"]
2.22

[/td][td width="19pt"]
4

[/td]​

Keep your illuminati bullshit to yourself!

 

[CLW]

What do the little girl and Jokinen reaction faces mean?

I've used Olli a couple times, just because I think it's funny, but no idea what it signifies.

Ollie is angry I think and the little girl is wow. Not a fan of either, just get normal reaction faces and call it a day.

 

[LokiDog]

So… are the people that hated the Igor contract the second it was signed and the people who insisted that you have to lock up your franchise goalie starting to see eye to eye or is this just a humorous thread title?

I ask because I would much rather be Colorado and take my chances in the playoffs with Blackwood and Wedgewood at a combined 3.85M (next year it’s 6.75M when Blackwood’s extension kicks in) than pay any goalie 11.5M per year. I also don’t want to pay any winger who isn’t named Kaprizov, Rantanen or Tkachuk more than 11M per year (looking at you, Arti). You know who can have a 12M+ contract? Mackinnon, McDavid, Draisaitl, etc.

In other words, franchise centers. I’m being a bit hyperbolic because there will be exceptions I’m not thinking of, but now that we’re somewhat back to our normal amount of dysfunction, and not in our 2 month crisis spiral anymore, the same thing is as clear (to me, at least) today as it has been to many of us for years. No elite 1C, no point in paying anyone else to drag you to the playoffs.

All Shesterkin and Panarin will do is keep us firmly in the 10-20 range where we will always be playoff hopefuls, which means:

We’ll rarely see kids getting big minutes

We’ll buy at the TDL more often than not so we’ll never have a robust pipeline of young talent trickling up to the big club

We’ll never draft anywhere near high enough to get our hands on the type of center this team needs to ever hope to break the Cup drought.

Anytime I’ve ever mentioned (previously, I’m over it at this point, and it’s no longer realistic with Igor/unlikely because playoffs with Bread) the response from many was “if you think we’re bad now, wait til you see how bad we’d be without Panarin!” …Yeah, that’s the point, bucko. Bad enough to draft the next Celebrini or Hughes or Eichel, I’d hope. Ditto Shesterkin. “You don’t trade goalies who can single handedly win you a playoff series, you pay them.” Looks like that’s going to work out extremely well for us. Hey Igor, we scraped in as a WC, go steal 4 series for us! #strategy

I understand we weren’t as bad as we looked last month, but we simply are not good enough to win a Cup and there isn’t any other purpose for this roster than winning a Cup, which means it has to be taken apart and put back together.

You ever put together a piece of furniture and you get 90% of the way done (making it to the ECF) and then you realize that on step 4 of 18 you attached a piece backward and so you have to take the entire thing apart and put it back together if you want to complete it (win a Cup)? That’s us. It doesn’t matter how close we were. You can’t go forward until you take it apart and fix the problem(s). That’s been clear to me for a while, and is the only reason I had been SO pro trading everyone.

You can’t build around a one dimensional winger whose style of play is less effective in the playoffs. You can’t build from the net out. In my opinion, you can’t build around a 1D who can’t skate either because you need that dynamic driving force from a 1D if they’re going to be your building block. The common denominator for Cup winners over the last 25 years or so, is basically a Hall of Fame 1C. Even if they weren’t massive offensive producers, like Bergeron, that’s still a certified HHOF center. Kopitar. Barkov. They will be in the HHOF. Mika Zibanejad will not.

Building AROUND Igor’s 11.5 and Zib’s 8.5 and Fox’s 9.5 is not the way to ever end up with a true 1C. And having a goalie like Igor and a 1D like Fox, keeping Panarin, etc. will ensure we never even have a chance to acquire one in the first place. Which makes virtually everything this team does irrelevant because, unless we manage to defy 20+ years of history (and, let’s face it, NYR isn’t the lucky team to manage to do that), we simply aren’t Cup winners without a 1C. So we are going to pay some guys a LOT of money to basically tread water and make sure Dolan gets his playoff revenue and that’s that.

 

[Machinehead]

Spoiler alert: It was Lindgren!

This organization rebuilt to replace Girardi with a less-skilled Girardi.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

On the tying 6v5 goal, it was inevitable because it resembled the 2014 Final. Unable to get the puck and clear as the other team kept grounding and pounding in the o-zone. Sooner than later, someone's getting caught out of defensive position while chasing the puck and reacting for over a minute.

Not really. It was the last 2 minutes not the whole 3rd period.

 

[Machinehead]

So… are the people that hated the Igor contract the second it we signed and the people who insisted that you have to lock up your franchise goalie starting to see eye to eye or is this just a humorous thread title?

I ask because I would much rather be Colorado and take my chances in the playoffs with Blackwood and Wedgewood at a combined 3.85M (next year it’s 6.75M when Blackwood’s extension kicks in) than pay any goalie 11.5M per year. I also don’t want to pay any winger who isn’t named Kaprizov, Rantanen or Tkachuk more than 11M per year (looking at you, Arti). You know who can have a 12M+ contract? Mackinnon, McDavid, Draisaitl, etc.

In other words, franchise centers. I’m being a bit hyperbolic because there will be exceptions I’m not thinking of, but now that we’re somewhat back to our normal amount of dysfunction, and not in our 2 month crisis spiral anymore, the same thing is clear (to me, at least) today as it has been to many of us for years. No elite 1C, no point in paying anyone else to drag you to the playoffs. All Shesterkin and Panarin will do is keep us firmly in the 10-20 range where we will always be playoff hopefuls, so we’ll rarely see kids getting big minutes, we’ll buy at the TDL more often than not so we’ll never have a robust pipeline of young talent trickling up to the big club and we’ll never draft anywhere near high enough to get our hands on the type of center this team needs to ever hope to break the Cup drought.

Anytime I ever mentioned (previously, I’m over it at this point, and it’s no longer realistic with Igor/unlikely because playoffs with Bread) the response from many was “if you think we’re bad now, wait til you see how bad we’d be without Panarin!” …Yeah, that’s the point, bucko. Bad enough to draft the next Celebrini or Hughes or Eichel, I’d hope. Ditto Shesterkin. “You don’t trade goalies who can single handedly win you a playoff series, you pay them.” Looks like that’s going to work out extremely well for us. Hey Igor, we scraped in as a WC, go steal 4 series for us! #strategy

I understand we weren’t as bad as we looked last month, but we simply are not good enough to win a Cup and there isn’t any other purpose for this roster than winning a Cup, which means it has to be taken apart and put back together. You ever put together a piece of furniture and you get 90% of the way done (making it to the ECF) and then you realize that on step 4 of 18 you attached a piece backward and so you have to take the entire thing apart and put it back together if you want to complete it (win a Cup)? That’s us. It doesn’t matter how close we were. You can’t go forward until you take it apart and fix the problem(s). That’s been clear to me for a while, and is the only reason I had been SO pro trading everyone.

You can’t build around a one dimensional winger whose style of play is less effective in the playoffs. You can’t build from the net out. In my opinion, you can’t build around a 1D who can’t skate either because you need that dynamic driving force from a 1D if they’re going to be your building block. The common denominator for Cup winners over the last 25 years or is basically a Hall of Fame 1C. Even if they weren’t massive offensive producers, like Bergeron, that’s still a certified HHOF center. Kopitar. Barkov. They will be in the HHOF. Mika Zibanejad will not.

Building AROUND Igor’s 11.5 and Zib’s 8.5 and Fox’s 9.5 is not the way to ever end up with a true 1C. And having a goalie like Igor and a 1D like Fox, keeping Panarin, etc. will ensure we never even have a chance to acquire one in the first place. Which makes virtually everything this team does irrelevant because, unless we manage to defy 20+ years of history (and, let’s face it, NYR isn’t the lucky team to manage to do that), we simply aren’t Cup winners without a 1C. So we are going to pay some guys a LOT of money to basically tread water and make sure Dolan gets his playoff revenue and that’s that.

Made this post in an unrelated main boards thread.

That's the issue and people might say it's not fair, but hey, hockey is not fair.

Here are the Cup winning centers since the lockout:

2006 - Staal
2007 - McDonald
2008 - Datsyuk
2009 - Crosby
2010 - Toews
2011 - Bergeron
2012 - Kopitar
2013 - Toews
2014 - Kopitar
2015 - Toews
2016 - Crosby
2017 - Crosby
2018 - Backstrom
2019 - O'Reilly
2020 - Point
2021 - Point
2022 - MacKinnon
2023 - Eichel
2024 - Barkov

I'd bet my house on everyone in red being in the Hall of Fame and the guys in blue either have a case or it's just a bit early right now. It's pretty overwhelming. People say there's no recipe for the Cup -- isn't there though? Have an all-world center. Season to taste.

The only guys in about two decades that are gonna need to for sure buy a ticket to visit the HHOF are McDonald and O'Reilly. McDonald had one of the most stacked defense corps of all-time. Even the "B-tier" guys on this list like Point and Backstrom had Kucherov and Ovechkin.

So, yeah, I guess if you wanna take the 1 in 19 chance that you just win the Cup for no reason like the Blues did, go for it, but it's not playing the odds.

That is absolutely dire. It's not fun to think about, but if you squint at hockey long enough, you kind of see that it's a one-position sport.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

For some posters here, if Igor doesn't steal the game playing out of his mind and we lose, then he played like shit, no middle ground. Regardless if he did or not. He was average yesterday, but he didn't cost us the game, the game was cost by the top 9 not showing up again and doing nothing on the scoresheet. You have 9 players to blame before Igor on the loss.

I didnt see the game but i do remembering seeing Mika with a clear cut breakaway in OT

 

[will1066]

I didnt see the game but i do remembering seeing Mika with a clear cut breakaway in OT

There were many throughout the game. Smith had one if not two, for example.

 

[Machinehead]

They had a chance to get Eichel. They should have emptied the cupboard. There's nothing we've developed that I wouldn't move for Eichel. In retrospect, I would have given up all of Lafreniere, Kakko, Cuylle, Othmann, Chytil, Miller, and Schneider. Who cares? It all amounts to spare parts.

You can build around Eichel. It takes more to win the Cup, but you need a franchise center to sit at the table.

 

[Grifter3511]

So… are the people that hated the Igor contract the second it we signed and the people who insisted that you have to lock up your franchise goalie starting to see eye to eye or is this just a humorous thread title?

I ask because I would much rather be Colorado and take my chances in the playoffs with Blackwood and Wedgewood at a combined 3.85M (next year it’s 6.75M when Blackwood’s extension kicks in) than pay any goalie 11.5M per year. I also don’t want to pay any winger who isn’t named Kaprizov, Rantanen or Tkachuk more than 11M per year (looking at you, Arti). You know who can have a 12M+ contract? Mackinnon, McDavid, Draisaitl, etc.

In other words, franchise centers. I’m being a bit hyperbolic because there will be exceptions I’m not thinking of, but now that we’re somewhat back to our normal amount of dysfunction, and not in our 2 month crisis spiral anymore, the same thing is clear (to me, at least) today as it has been to many of us for years. No elite 1C, no point in paying anyone else to drag you to the playoffs. All Shesterkin and Panarin will do is keep us firmly in the 10-20 range where we will always be playoff hopefuls, so we’ll rarely see kids getting big minutes, we’ll buy at the TDL more often than not so we’ll never have a robust pipeline of young talent trickling up to the big club and we’ll never draft anywhere near high enough to get our hands on the type of center this team needs to ever hope to break the Cup drought.

Anytime I ever mentioned (previously, I’m over it at this point, and it’s no longer realistic with Igor/unlikely because playoffs with Bread) the response from many was “if you think we’re bad now, wait til you see how bad we’d be without Panarin!” …Yeah, that’s the point, bucko. Bad enough to draft the next Celebrini or Hughes or Eichel, I’d hope. Ditto Shesterkin. “You don’t trade goalies who can single handedly win you a playoff series, you pay them.” Looks like that’s going to work out extremely well for us. Hey Igor, we scraped in as a WC, go steal 4 series for us! #strategy

I understand we weren’t as bad as we looked last month, but we simply are not good enough to win a Cup and there isn’t any other purpose for this roster than winning a Cup, which means it has to be taken apart and put back together. You ever put together a piece of furniture and you get 90% of the way done (making it to the ECF) and then you realize that on step 4 of 18 you attached a piece backward and so you have to take the entire thing apart and put it back together if you want to complete it (win a Cup)? That’s us. It doesn’t matter how close we were. You can’t go forward until you take it apart and fix the problem(s). That’s been clear to me for a while, and is the only reason I had been SO pro trading everyone.

You can’t build around a one dimensional winger whose style of play is less effective in the playoffs. You can’t build from the net out. In my opinion, you can’t build around a 1D who can’t skate either because you need that dynamic driving force from a 1D if they’re going to be your building block. The common denominator for Cup winners over the last 25 years or is basically a Hall of Fame 1C. Even if they weren’t massive offensive producers, like Bergeron, that’s still a certified HHOF center. Kopitar. Barkov. They will be in the HHOF. Mika Zibanejad will not.

Building AROUND Igor’s 11.5 and Zib’s 8.5 and Fox’s 9.5 is not the way to ever end up with a true 1C. And having a goalie like Igor and a 1D like Fox, keeping Panarin, etc. will ensure we never even have a chance to acquire one in the first place. Which makes virtually everything this team does irrelevant because, unless we manage to defy 20+ years of history (and, let’s face it, NYR isn’t the lucky team to manage to do that), we simply aren’t Cup winners without a 1C. So we are going to pay some guys a LOT of money to basically tread water and make sure Dolan gets his playoff revenue and that’s that.

On top of all this, we still have to pay a backup. With Igor's contract, we should be able to get away with paying someone league minimum to come in and play 17 games in the season against bottom feeders. But between Shesterkin's actual up and down play and his pension for getting injured (albeit minor) throughout the year, we still have to spend a couple mil for a capable backup which eats up even more of the cap.

 

[Machinehead]

Having a franchise center is like having a quarterback or a point guard.

They're not positions, really. They're fundaments of the sport. Somebody runs your offense.

If the person running your offense is not elite, you're not winning, beyond a few spare exceptions over the years.

 

[McRanger92]

Made this post in an unrelated main boards thread.



That is absolutely dire. It's not fun to think about, but if you squint at hockey long enough, you kind of see that it's a one-position sport.

Would be an interesting experiment to see how far over the cap the last 5 Cup winners were. Significantly over i would assume. That's a variable no one ever talks about when looking back.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

1st goal looked like the pre Christmas break Rangers, all 3 forwards prematurely flying the zone. Kelly waltzes into the slot unmarked. A save you'd hope Igor could make but not entirely on him.

2nd goal the all too familiar turnover failing to get the puck out, Lindren doing absolutely f*** all to defend his man on the rebound and instead puck watching. Igor's only chance would have been preventing a rebound.

3rd goal 2 men chase behind the net, Zibanejad soft play can't win a puck battle, peak Igor makes that save 9 out of 10 times.

Absolutely unforgivable that the 4th line had to provide all of the offense. I don't care that the Avs are a good team, they are rife with injuries and that was a very winnable game.