Pastrnak is pretty good.Look at Boston. Aside from McAvoy they haven't drafted anybody worth much since Bergeron and they're near the top of the league. So that argument falls apart too.
I'm not lumping all management in one category as if it's a fungus or mold. THIS management is in year 2. We aren't winning and competing by year 4 then you need to start over again but Briere and Jones aren't responsible for what Fletcher or Hextall or even Holmgren etc. did. That's my timeline.
we dont discuss facts round here...And Krejci. And Marchand.
True. Not a top pick though. He fell in the draft and was missed by lots of people. But yes, that makes 2.Pastrnak is pretty good.
I'm not getting into that sort of speculative discussion. I know what some people think of the old boys club and so forth. I prefer not to go there.What are your thoughts on Lombardi, Clarke, Barber, and Hanrahan?
BergeronLook at Boston. Aside from McAvoy they haven't drafted anybody worth much since Bergeron and they're near the top of the league. So that argument falls apart too.
True. Not a top pick though. He fell in the draft and was missed by lots of people. But yes, that makes 2.
I'm not getting into that sort of speculative discussion. I know what some people think of the old boys club and so forth. I prefer not to go there.
Bergeron
Krejci
Kessel (moved for the Seguin and Hamilton picks)
Lucic
Marchand
Seguin (moved for Eriksson, Morrow, Smith and Fraser)
Hamilton (moved for picks they wasted aha)
Pastrnak
McAvoy
in a 13 year span.
That is quite a lot of star level guys.
Of their best 3 players over the last 15 years? 2+ have always been from the draft. Including right now where all of their best 3 players were drafted. At times all of their best 5 players were drafted.
Now, yeh, that are probably (alongside Vegas who are a pretty special circumstance) the team that have relied on the draft LEAST to build a contender.
But relying on the draft the least yet having 5 of your most important ~8 players in terms of success over the past ~15 years being drafted by the club? Yeh, kind of shows how important it is to draft well.
The Bruins actually made some awful trades at times, and threw away draft picks... but were "saved" funnily enough by having the top end guys that they got through the draft.
Boston hasn't drafted anyone of note since taking a top 5 Defenseman in the world while still having Marchand and Pastrnak and also only being months out of Bergeron's career. That's where we are in this conversation. Cut bait, friends.
True. Not a top pick though. He fell in the draft and was missed by lots of people. But yes, that makes 2.
I'm not getting into that sort of speculative discussion. I know what some people think of the old boys club and so forth. I prefer not to go there.
No, that's true. I went too far back. Really I was thinking of the last period of time where they pretty much trade away all their picks and prospects. They are not really a built through the draft model but it doesn't matter. Flyers have lots of picks. They can do both.Bergeron
Krejci
Kessel (moved for the Seguin and Hamilton picks)
Lucic
Marchand
Seguin (moved for Eriksson, Morrow, Smith and Fraser)
Hamilton (moved for picks they wasted aha)
Pastrnak
McAvoy
in a 13 year span.
That is quite a lot of star level guys.
Of their best 3 players over the last 15 years? 2+ have always been from the draft. Including right now where all of their best 3 players were drafted. At times all of their best 5 players were drafted.
Now, yeh, that are probably (alongside Vegas who are a pretty special circumstance) the team that have relied on the draft LEAST to build a contender.
But relying on the draft the least yet having 5 of your most important ~8 players in terms of success over the past ~15 years being drafted by the club? Yeh, kind of shows how important it is to draft well.
The Bruins actually made some awful trades at times, and threw away draft picks... but were "saved" funnily enough by having the top end guys that they got through the draft.
I don't go there because it gets one nowhere. It's purely speculative in terms of how the decisions are made or who has a veto or who gets final say. You can spin it either way. You can say it's an old boys club with old guys pulling puppet strings and only hiring ex-Flyer yes men, or you can say they hire ex-Flyers because they want loyalty to the jersey and what they want the Flyers to stand for and the history from way back. Trust even.Why not prefer to go there?
The men that make up the FO are the biggest constant about the franchise, that finds itself struggling for success.
Replacing GM’s while keeping the same group of men around them doesn’t mean much.
The Flyers are run like a modern political party. You don’t change course by just electing a new “face”, when all the people around them remain the same.
The Flyers GM title is simply more of a spokesperson anyway. What’s different about the team now then when Fletcher was here? They fired Chuck to appease a fanbase hungry for blood, but even kept Flahr after the fallout.
It was a PR move. This is the same perpetual retool nonsense it’s always been.
I don't go there because it gets one nowhere. It's purely speculative in terms of how the decisions are made or who has a veto or who gets final say. You can spin it either way. You can say it's an old boys club with old guys pulling puppet strings and only hiring ex-Flyer yes men, or you can say they hire ex-Flyers because they want loyalty to the jersey and what they want the Flyers to stand for and the history from way back. Trust even.
Does Clarke make any decisions still or does he just a comfy chair and a free buffet along with his thanks for your service? Nobody really knows and everybody just spins all that to validate their own already decided belief.
I prefer to just take Briere and Jones at face value and evaluate them by what they do.
What are you on about?Yet in another thread you just tried to pretend they didn't do what they did.
What are you on about?
I don't go there because it gets one nowhere. It's purely speculative in terms of how the decisions are made or who has a veto or who gets final say. You can spin it either way. You can say it's an old boys club with old guys pulling puppet strings and only hiring ex-Flyer yes men, or you can say they hire ex-Flyers because they want loyalty to the jersey and what they want the Flyers to stand for and the history from way back. Trust even.
Does Clarke make any decisions still or does he just a comfy chair and a free buffet along with his thanks for your service? Nobody really knows and everybody just spins all that to validate their own already decided belief.
I prefer to just take Briere and Jones at face value and evaluate them by what they do.
We do know though.
The last 2 GMs (Hextall/Fletcher) they chose to hire were complete morons.
Those were crippling mistakes, yet the men responsible for both hires are still around. Not only still around, but got to influence the hiring of Briere.
The Flyers seem somehow allergic to finding a superstar or two, yet they are infused into the league every season. Whether that’s top 5 picks, or later.
Yet the same good ol’ boys continue to staff the scouting department, and the advisors are overall still around.
It’s not speculative. The stagnation is very much on display. They remain there. The team remains a f***ing joke.
They hired a third party firm to handle the coaching search. A third party that, if IIRC, had represented Tortorella in the past.Influenced the hiring of the coach and his ridiculous empowerment, too. That was done over Fletcher's head, I think? Guy was Pres of Hockey Ops and an alt governor, there aren't really many people shy of Clarke and his little shitty circle with that kind of pull.
Nope. Don't agree. Hextall's resume said he was a good choice. At first he seemed to be. Then he wasn't. At the time, seemed like a good hire. Not that terrible really either. He was right about a few things, but that's the past so I don't care. It's over.We do know though.
The last 2 GMs (Hextall/Fletcher) they chose to hire were complete morons.
Those were crippling mistakes, yet the men responsible for both hires are still around. Not only still around, but got to influence the hiring of Briere.
The Flyers seem somehow allergic to finding a superstar or two, yet they are infused into the league every season. Whether that’s top 5 picks, or later.
Yet the same good ol’ boys continue to staff the scouting department, and the advisors are overall still around.
It’s not speculative. The stagnation is very much on display. They remain there. The team remains a f***ing joke.
They hired a third party firm to handle the coaching search. A third party that, if IIRC, had represented Tortorella in the past.