Post-Game Talk: #7 | Wild at Flyers | October 26, 2023 | Flyers win 6-2

[usahockey22flyers]

Winning again huh. Rebuild my ass. Hello 12th overall pick.

This is what worries me - what if they are just in/below the last 2 spots, we prob tear down the team honestly - but it's too late at that point. Looking at the 10th to 14th range. Sad.

 

[PDX Flyer]

2015-16 was a year after Hextall took over with a mandate from Snider to rebuild.
CF left Briere better talent in terms of young depth than Holmgren left Hextall.

Now it still comes down to patience, if by some miracle the Flyers were to make the playoffs this year, the way they did in 2015-16 under Mason's regular season before he melted down in the playoffs, that's no reason to declare "mission accomplished."

They need to keep acquiring young assets and build organizational depth and avoid the FA market - but what it would mean is they don't need to make drastic moves.

Why do you keep making shit up about Snider mandating Hextall rebuild?

It is very well documented that Hextall sold Snider on his vision before being hired.

 

[Random Forest]

I feel like there’s a truce that could be had amongst the HF Flyers factions:

1) The Flyers won’t be competitive until they have a stud top pairing defenseman who can log big minutes.

2) Sanheim has the potential to be — and is currently playing like it — a stud top pairing defenseman who can log big minutes.

3) ??????

In all seriousness, if Sanheim can be That Guy or just close to it, I don’t know what that means for the timeline. There are obviously holes that need to be filled, but with the assets in the system, the opportunity is there to fill some of them over the next couple years. It’s nice to have low expectations and just use this year to see what we actually have.

 

[VladDrag]

Oh, I have no illusion that they're a good team right now, but it's clear they're no longer a bad team.
And because this is driven primarily by players 25 and under (plus Sanheim (27), TK (26)), and a top 5 talent pipeline and extra picks in the 2024 draft, it should be sustainable.

They're not going to tank, but the key is still patience, keep adding young assets.

They have pieces to maneuver to get what they need, but everything will have to go right. They will have to identify the right guy in the draft, or trade in order to get there. It would require a tremendous amount of luck.

In 2-5 years they will be good, there is no doubt. How good is the question, I am currently struggling to see them turning into a contender without a tremendous amount of luck.

I'm worried about the PDO increasing.

I'm witnessing 3 hockey miracles: (1) Couturier and Atkinson almost look tradeable, (2) Meathead Sanheim continues to dominate after years of franchise f***ery, (3) @Stizzle returns

He was on the Brink of never returning (working on my dad jokes)

 

[flyerslducks]

Winning again huh. Rebuild my ass. Hello 12th overall pick.

Yup, so stupid. I know it’s early and we will regress, but I don’t see them regressing as much as last year. Couts, Atkinson, somewhat Improved d, kids playing well, more depth in the fwd lineup. Another mediocre season incoming. I wouldn’t mind this in 2 years. Drafting in the top 5 for the next 2 seasons would’ve been pivotal to getting top end talent. Like vlad said, we need more than just michkov and gauthier incoming.

 

[flyerslducks]

I feel like there’s a truce that could be had amongst the HF Flyers factions:

1) The Flyers won’t be competitive until they have a stud top pairing defenseman who can log big minutes.

2) Sanheim has the potential to be — and is currently playing like it — a stud top pairing defenseman who can log big minutes.

3) ??????

In all seriousness, if Sanheim can be That Guy or just close to it, I don’t know what that means for the timeline. There are obviously holes that need to be filled, but with the assets in the system, the opportunity is there to fill some of them over the next couple years. It’s nice to have low expectations and just use this year to see what we actually have.

We know what we have, we just need to find ways to fill what we don’t have. We have 4 solid pieces in our d core…sanheim, york, Andrae, and zamula. We need 1 more bonafide dman for sure so we can have sanheim and X.

Then we need another top 6 center. In a few years couts could be playing middle 6 for this roster, which isn’t a bad thing at all if we can drsft a top 6 center. It all comes down to drafting again. If we have the opportunity to draft high and end up with another Patrick, it will hurt us just as much as it did the first time. Hopefully we get lucky in the upcoming rounds

 

[tnfrs]

I just want them to bring up prospects instead of belpedios because its pretty telling how they feel internally about the defense in lehigh. if the standard is so high a guy like ginning cant earn an audition on tort's big black couch we should probably also address the team leader in shots having 0 goals or how tyson is still kinda treading water offensively and skates like a newborn giraffe, but man that smile, I know Torts cant say no to that smile because he loves kids and their laughs and being swell. Laid back Torts like a cool divorced dad in his fleece like he's coaching his sons. He has the patience of a young Cesar Milan

 

[deadhead]

We know what we have, we just need to find ways to fill what we don’t have. We have 4 solid pieces in our d core…sanheim, york, Andrae, and zamula. We need 1 more bonafide dman for sure so we can have sanheim and X.

Then we need another top 6 center. In a few years couts could be playing middle 6 for this roster, which isn’t a bad thing at all if we can drsft a top 6 center. It all comes down to drafting again. If we have the opportunity to draft high and end up with another Patrick, it will hurt us just as much as it did the first time. Hopefully we get lucky in the upcoming rounds

The jury is still out on Zamula, I think Andrae has more upside but needs time in the AHL.
Bonk is having a solid D+1 season, the guy to keep an eye on is Sotheran.
But they need to draft one more top 4 D-man, a top 6 center and otherwise BPA.

 

[freakydallas13]

2015-16 was a year after Hextall took over with a mandate from Snider to rebuild.
CF left Briere better talent in terms of young depth than Holmgren left Hextall.

Now it still comes down to patience, if by some miracle the Flyers were to make the playoffs this year, the way they did in 2015-16 under Mason's regular season before he melted down in the playoffs, that's no reason to declare "mission accomplished."

They need to keep acquiring young assets and build organizational depth and avoid the FA market - but what it would mean is they don't need to make drastic moves.

We agree on this, where we disagree is on what the organization will do moving forward if this team starts showing it can make the playoffs sooner rather than later. O'Connor is already flat out saying that the rebuild might be shorter than everyone thought because the team is better than most thought, and at this point he's basically a ventriloquist pr doll for this franchise. They are priming reasons for cutting the rebuild short 7 games into the rebuild, and the only reason to start saying this publically is because you want to be able to go back on promises you don't intend to keep without the fans who want a rebuild being upset: "look, it's fine we started signing FA's a year after we said we're rebuilding! The team is ready to compete now".

Knowing the history of this franchise, the way they are talking about their outlook, and their lack of good player evaluation (tried to dump Sanheim for pennies on the dollar) is worrying to say the least.

 

[freakydallas13]

“Five years from now no one on the current roster will be under 25”

Lmao.

I guess it makes sense that the quality of the complaints on here has to get dumber the better the team is playing.

It's not a complaint, it's a response to someone comparing the quality of the current roster (2023, year one of starting to accumulate picks) to one that had already been accumulating picks for 5 years (2016) using players 25 and under as the metric.

I'm just adding context.

 

[deadhead]

We agree on this, where we disagree is on what the organization will do moving forward if this team starts showing it can make the playoffs sooner rather than later. O'Connor is already flat out saying that the rebuild might be shorter than everyone thought because the team is better than most thought, and at this point he's basically a ventriloquist pr doll for this franchise. They are priming reasons for cutting the rebuild short 7 games into the rebuild, and the only reason to start saying this publically is because you want to be able to go back on promises you don't intend to keep without the fans who want a rebuild being upset: "look, it's fine we started signing FA's a year after we said we're rebuilding! The team is ready to compete now".

Knowing the history of this franchise, the way they are talking about their outlook, and their lack of good player evaluation (tried to dump Sanheim for pennies on the dollar) is worrying to say the least.

It would make more sense for Briere to lower expectations than to raise them, even if Jones might want to raise them for ST sales. Briere has been pretty adamant about the need to be patient, and I think Torts was burned in CBJ by a GM trying to win now instead of finishing the rebuild.

When Torts turned around CBJ in his second season, the only "major" addition was Gagner.
He's comfortable playing kids (he just won't play them if he doesn't think they're ready).

Now I could see a major trade for a young top 6 center or 1RHD, but that would be less about ending the rebuild than using assets to add a major building block instead of amassing prospects for five years down the road. If Zegras became available, would you bite?

 

[freakydallas13]

But they need to draft one more top 4 D-man, a top 6 center and otherwise BPA.

This is technically correct, but also incredibly misleading. They need another top 4 d-man and top 6 center, but you neglect to mention that the top 4 d-man needs to be a #1 d-man, and the top 6 center needs to be a number #1 center.

It's the hockey equivalent of saying you owe someone at least $100, when in reality the amount you owe is $100,000. Technically correct, extremely deceptive.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Those wins will make our team an average team for another decade.

Typical Flyers. Still same.

3 years away from being 3 years away foreverrrrr..

 

[FromOyVey2Matvei]

The organization trying as hard as they could to move on from him due to one down year is definitely their fault.

This is typical of you. You wouldn't give them credit for "almost" trading Sanheim for a first round pick when it looked like we were getting off a bad contract / bad NMC.... but now that it's looking like Sanheim is actually as asset, you'll damn sure blame them for "almost" trading Sanheim for a first round pick.

 

[freakydallas13]

It would make more sense for Briere to lower expectations than to raise them, even if Jones might want to raise them for ST sales. Briere has been pretty adamant about the need to be patient, and I think Torts was burned in CBJ by a GM trying to win now instead of finishing the rebuild.

When Torts turned around CBJ in his second season, the only "major" addition was Gagner.
He's comfortable playing kids (he just won't play them if he doesn't think they're ready).

Now I could see a major trade for a young top 6 center or 1RHD, but that would be less about ending the rebuild than using assets to add a major building block instead of amassing prospects for five years down the road. If Zegras became available, would you bite?

I don't care how they get a young #1 D and a young #1 center, I just doubt this team's ability to do so, especially if they cut the rebuild short and just draft ~10-15 overall the next 2 years.

Again, CoC is already saying the rebuild will be shorter. The new chairman said the draft we just had was year 3 of the rebuild. The signs this team wants to compete the second they start showing they are even slightly likely to make the playoffs are already manifesting, we just disagree on what this means moving forward.

 

[Sombastate]

Bobby Brink may be the most adorable first goal scorer of all time

 

[usahockey22flyers]

This is technically correct, but also incredibly misleading. They need another top 4 d-man and top 6 center, but you neglect to mention that the top 4 d-man needs to be a #1 d-man, and the top 6 center needs to be a number #1 center.

It's the hockey equivalent of saying you owe someone at least $100, when in reality the amount you owe is $100,000. Technically correct, extremely deceptive.

I’d argue they need two top 2 Dmen. If Sanheim actually takes the next step maybe a top 2 dman, and another top 4?

 

[deadhead]

Let's see how this season plays out, but I think they have better talent than some think.

Farabee - 42 in pp/60 at 5x5 from 19-21, last year was a lost season, but now he looks like he's taking a step up to a legitimate 1st line LW

TK - anyone question whether he's top 6? First line might be debatable, but you can make a good argument.

Couts - we'll see how he holds up, but so far he's not far from vintage Couts, at worst, probably a 2C

Brink - a revelation, he has "it," that the top offensive players have, his leading the NCAA in scoring at age 20 wasn't a fluke. The skating question has been answered. Is he a 1RW or 2RW? Stay tuned.

Sanheim is looking like the 25+ minute guy who can play in all situations and produce on offense, last time I checked, that's pretty much the definition of a 1st pair D-man.

Now they have a bunch of players who are more question marks:
Tippett - hard to judge on the left side, he's not looking comfortable there
Cates - he is what he is, a solid middle six guy
Frost - we'll see what happens, he's gonna get back on the ice at some point
Foerster - another RW playing out of position, but middle six with upside

Atkinson - can still score, but I'd consider him middle six at this point
Laughton - may be having his best season but still limited
Poehling - bottom six, but speed kills, role player depth

York - Robin to Sanheim's batman
Zamula - jury is out, he's struggled at times, probably should be 3LHD

They need more, Gauthier can help even if he's destined as a scoring LW, Bonk will give a reliable RHD to pair with someone like Andrae, and of course, when Michkov comes over, instant upgrade.

But they need to hit on a couple 1st rd picks and turn some later round picks into solid starters.

 

[freakydallas13]

Again, the idea that "...this team plus Gauthier, Michkov, Bonk, some secondary pieces, and a couple 10-15 overall picks is enough to compete" is why people think this team is on the road to mediocre again. That would be perfectly cromulent 1st round doormat team and little more.

 

[Curufinwe]

Also the fact we don't know who the goalies will be in a year or two

 

[sauce88]

They also need to show that when they do spend money on UFAs it's on actual needle movers, no more 7mil contracts for mediocre players like Hayes.

 

[bennysflyers16]

They are already moving out a 25 yr old skilled center, don't kid yourself, the time to compete is now and next 3 years.

That is what these dino f***s believe.

 

[FromOyVey2Matvei]

This is technically correct, but also incredibly misleading. They need another top 4 d-man and top 6 center, but you neglect to mention that the top 4 d-man needs to be a #1 d-man, and the top 6 center needs to be a number #1 center.

It's the hockey equivalent of saying you owe someone at least $100, when in reality the amount you owe is $100,000. Technically correct, extremely deceptive.

You're kind of ignoring that free agency and trades are possible though aren't you? Does Vegas win the cup last year if their #1C / top scorer in the regular season & postseason wasn't available via trade (and for a bargain price, too)?

 

[Curufinwe]

Well the Flyers have several years with a large amount of dead cap to deal with before big free agent targets will be much of an option. Ellis, Hayes, maybe Risto.

 

[Beef Invictus]

This is typical of you. You wouldn't give them credit for "almost" trading Sanheim for a first round pick when it looked like we were getting off a bad contract / bad NMC.... but now that it's looking like Sanheim is actually as asset, you'll damn sure blame them for "almost" trading Sanheim for a first round pick.

I have no idea what you're talking about. No shit I wasn't giving them "credit" for trying to flee from Sanheim because of the only down year of his career, because that was a ridiculous process for them to follow. I've always considered Sanheim an asset.

Are you thinking of someone else? If not, you couldn't be more wrong.