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Prospect Info: 6th Overall Pick Moritz Seider, Defence, DEL

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MBH said:
Well, sure.
It's my thinking is today.
Things could change in time.
Click to expand...

I would have personally taken Dobson and Cozens in the last 2 drafts. I believe you have said you would have done the same. I have seen enough from Zadina/Seider to not have an issue having them in the system as opposed to those 2.

I'd say it's pretty likely that Dobson and Seider become similar level pro players. They have very similar strengths. So I guess it comes down to how you feel about Zadina vs Cozens. Personally I would say that Seider/Zadina and Dobson/Cozens is most likely a wash in the long run.
 
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Frk It said:
I would have personally taken Dobson and Cozens in the last 2 drafts. I believe you have said you would have done the same. I have seen enough from Zadina/Seider to not have an issue having them in the system as opposed to those 2.

I'd say it's pretty likely that Dobson and Seider become similar level pro players. They have very similar strengths. So I guess it comes down to how you feel about Zadina vs Cozens. Personally I would say that Seider/Zadina and Dobson/Cozens is most likely a wash in the long run.
Click to expand...

Dobson and Cozens? Ew
 
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Frk It said:
I would have personally taken Dobson and Cozens in the last 2 drafts. I believe you have said you would have done the same. I have seen enough from Zadina/Seider to not have an issue having them in the system as opposed to those 2.

I'd say it's pretty likely that Dobson and Seider become similar level pro players. They have very similar strengths. So I guess it comes down to how you feel about Zadina vs Cozens. Personally I would say that Seider/Zadina and Dobson/Cozens is most likely a wash in the long run.
Click to expand...

Dobson and Cozens were my two.
But any sort of mix-and-match
Dobson, Bouchard, Hughes, Boqvist
and
Cozens, Zegras
At least would have made strategic sense to me.

I don't know if Seider/Zadina Dobson/Cozens will be a wash.
It's possible. Maybe Seider/Dobson wash each other out.
Maybe Zadina is better than Cozens..
But man, I sure like the idea of drafting a 6'3 RH center who could be your #1 or #2.

Larkin-Cozens-Veleno down the middle for 10 years?
 
MBH said:
I don't think they are lost causes.
I just don't think we got best bang for our buck.

We needed an elite D and elite C more than anything.
2018 was a draft rich in defense.
We took a winger.
2019 was a draft rich in centers.
We took a D.

It's not hard to understand why I don't think we were well served these last two years.
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Your reasoning does make a lot of sense for sure. Going into those drafts, my choices from a limited amount of homework were Dobson and Zegras. Zadina was the logical and least risky pick at the time imo. Seider sort of came out of nowhere, but that's due to underscouting. So far he's proven he was worth it and then some. Even following conventional logic, the past two drafts look pretty good.
 
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MoritzSeiderAtSix said:
So Seider showing he's #1 caliber D in the AHL at 18 is what in comparison to Broberg at 23-24 years old?
What is your point here? That in 5 years if Broberg is better than Seider you can say I told ya so? But I bet that if Seider reaches his potential you will eat zero crow. Your hot takes on this are simply so you can feel superior IF, IF, IF those opinions turn out to be true, BUT you'll just say you're happy that Seider is the real deal when he proves it and forget about all this garbage you're spouting right now.

I'll make a username bet with you right now. If Seider is better than Cozens, Krebs, Zegres, Newhook, Knight and Broberg in the 2021-2022 (NHL) season you have to pick a username of my choice and vice versa. Deal?
Click to expand...

MBH said:
Wasn't on the board.
Here's what I posted a couple days after the draft, with the benefit of hindsight (after seeing some of the guys the Red Wings picked, I decided I liked them.)
The only Red Wings pick who was on my list ahead of the draft was Johansson.
6 1 Dylan Cozens
35 2 Jackson Lacombe (D)
54 2 Pavel Dorofeyev (W)
60 2 Albert Johansson (D)
66 3 Albin Grewe (W)
97 4 Ethan Phillips (C)
128 5 Leevi Altonen (W)
159 6 Elmer Soderblom (F)
177 6 Gustav Berglund (D)
190 7 Kirill Tyutyayev (F)
191 7 Dustin Wolf (G)
Click to expand...

How about the bet?
 
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Frk It said:
I would have personally taken Dobson and Cozens in the last 2 drafts. I believe you have said you would have done the same. I have seen enough from Zadina/Seider to not have an issue having them in the system as opposed to those 2.

I'd say it's pretty likely that Dobson and Seider become similar level pro players. They have very similar strengths. So I guess it comes down to how you feel about Zadina vs Cozens. Personally I would say that Seider/Zadina and Dobson/Cozens is most likely a wash in the long run.
Click to expand...

Since I had Hughes three on my draft board, I take him.

That likely impacts my selection of Broberg the next season... I think we can still take Seider and realize we are now all in on elite forward talent with the balance of prospects on and handedness. I probably select Cozens with the board falling that way. I would like the balance of having his right handed center abilities in our system.

Really the only big one is I run to the podium to select Hughes and that isn't with hindsight, I let out an f-bomb when we didn't pick him on draft night. But I hope Zadina becomes a big time player, he certainly can and looks to be progressing nicely.

Seider has a ton of Dobson's qualities. I also had Dobson ranked higher than Zadina entering that draft so I would have zero issues with what you listed.
 
I feel like picks in the Holland regime are off the table at this point, I have zero expectations from the former scouts he leaned on and if anyone develops its just a bonus. It was a pretty unimpressive run for a long time with a few wins here and there.

Yzerman inherited a team with a gaping hole on D. I think its understandable that he used his most valuable resource to try to start D on the right track and the development curve is looking like that pick was justified. I still have zero problem with it. I like to look back at what ifs also but I feel like this one Yzerman got it right. Yzerman does have a history of struggle with getting top picks right though so it will be interesting to watch how this plays out.
 
MBH said:
Dobson and Cozens were my two.
But any sort of mix-and-match
Dobson, Bouchard, Hughes, Boqvist
and
Cozens, Zegras
At least would have made strategic sense to me.

I don't know if Seider/Zadina Dobson/Cozens will be a wash.
It's possible. Maybe Seider/Dobson wash each other out.
Maybe Zadina is better than Cozens..
But man, I sure like the idea of drafting a 6'3 RH center who could be your #1 or #2.

Larkin-Cozens-Veleno down the middle for 10 years?
Click to expand...
Cozens is not going to play center in the NHL :popcorn:

I remember everyone in this section all high on Cozens predraft, thinking that he was going to go in the top 3-5. I remember arguing up and down that Zegras is better than Cozens, That Byram was going 3-4, that Dach is better and would be drafted above Cozens. Nobody would have it.

I also remember 80% of the Wings section trying to convince me that if we signed Trouba we would be pretty much ready to compete, likely be in the wild card race. That we are just lacking a #1D. Even though Trouba wasn't even a #2 in Winnipeg. I tried to point out that we would hurt our future tying up 8+mill for 7-8 years. Rangers fan do not even consider him in their top 3 right now (as the season went on). The Wings also had the worst season ever if you guys haven't noticed, so much for many Wings fans arguing that we have all the high end players we needed and we don't need a top 2 pick. There was a hand full of us that just got pounced on by the masses trying to make reasonable points.
Yet, 80% of the people on these forums didn't learn a thing and likely won't learn much for the remainder of their lives I would wager.

Ok, I'm done. People claiming Cozens is going to play center at the NHL level just really crack me up. You guys should try watching hockey sometime. Lets see how smart one of the worst drafting/developing teams in Buffalo was to pick Cozens 7th.

Just be the mature, smart and much bigger than me people you are and don't even respond.
 
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Frk It said:
I would have personally taken Dobson and Cozens in the last 2 drafts. I believe you have said you would have done the same. I have seen enough from Zadina/Seider to not have an issue having them in the system as opposed to those 2.

I'd say it's pretty likely that Dobson and Seider become similar level pro players. They have very similar strengths. So I guess it comes down to how you feel about Zadina vs Cozens. Personally I would say that Seider/Zadina and Dobson/Cozens is most likely a wash in the long run.
Click to expand...

I was on board with the Zadina pick for sure and was ecstatic he fell to us. Last year, I remember really wanting Cozens at 6 when we were on the clock. Personally, I'm pretty confident that Seider will be a more dominant defenceman than Dobson will be. Obviously they are still very young and unproven, but I like Seider's ceiling over Dobson's. I still really like Cozens, and I think he's a top 6 NHL forward for sure.

I'm good with the Zadina and Seider picks. In hindsight, if I could go back to the 2018 draft, I think Hughes is the easy pick over Zadina, but that's in hindsight, and I'm still happy with Zadina. As for last year, I'll admit I was shocked at the Seider pick, but Mo has grown on me all year, and now I honestly think we got our #1. I love his patience with the puck. He just doesn't panic or throw muffins up the ice (cough CHOLOWSKI), he's just calm and relaxed back there. He's physical, he reads the plays well, he can pass the puck too. I'm still not sold on his offensive upside as a 50 point PP quarterback, but no doubt in my mind Mo is playing 22+ mins per night, being a rock defensively and on the PK, and contributing with 30-40 points. Whether he has another level than this offensively will be fun to see.
 
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MBH said:
Nice.
When you can't reason, resort to insults.
Click to expand...

Any report about prospects from this season, prospect rankings, watching them play, and performance at the WJC all point to Seider having the better season. You have no reason at all in your post and its just a plain and simple shitty narrative youre trying to push because you sounded dumb at the time of the pick and arent willing to give up your position. Bjornfot had 4 more goals is your support for him outperforming Seider.

Seider had 6 more points in the WJC. Pronman had Seider ranked 27 spots higher in his midseason prospect ranking. Wheeler had Seider on his all prospects team as one of only 2 dmen to end the year based on how dominant he was. The hockeywriters had Seider 7 and Bjornfot 55. Seider actually had the higher point per game this year (just barely) despite being considered probably the best defensive prospect in the game right now and Bjornfot being considered a two way D that leans a bit more toward offense.

Lets hear you give some reasoning for Seider being outperformed. Youre out to lunch
 
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haulinbass said:
Cozens is not going to play center in the NHL :popcorn:

I remember everyone in this section all high on Cozens predraft, thinking that he was going to go in the top 3-5. I remember arguing up and down that Zegras is better than Cozens, That Byram was going 3-4, that Dach is better and would be drafted above Cozens. Nobody would have it.

I also remember 80% of the Wings section trying to convince me that if we signed Trouba we would be pretty much ready to compete, likely be in the wild card race. That we are just lacking a #1D. Even though Trouba wasn't even a #2 in Winnipeg. I tried to point out that we would hurt our future tying up 8+mill for 7-8 years. Rangers fan do not even consider him in their top 3 right now (as the season went on). The Wings also had the worst season ever if you guys haven't noticed, so much for many Wings fans arguing that we have all the high end players we needed and we don't need a top 2 pick. There was a hand full of us that just got pounced on by the masses trying to make reasonable points.
Yet, 80% of the people on these forums didn't learn a thing and likely won't learn much for the remainder of their lives I would wager.

Ok, I'm done. People claiming Cozens is going to play center at the NHL level just really crack me up. You guys should try watching hockey sometime. Lets see how smart one of the worst drafting/developing teams in Buffalo was to pick Cozens 7th.

Just be the mature, smart and much bigger than me people you are and don't even respond.
Click to expand...

Wow......
 
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haulinbass said:
I remember everyone in this section all high on Cozens predraft, thinking that he was going to go in the top 3-5. I remember arguing up and down that Zegras is better than Cozens, That Byram was going 3-4, that Dach is better and would be drafted above Cozens. Nobody would have it.
Click to expand...

You're probably having a serious case of selective memory. There was a strong cohort of us lobbying for Dach. It wasn't some fringe thing.

Opinions here were pretty split all over the map, as there wasn't a consensus outside the top couple selections.
 
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Bench said:
It would appear not all of us handle the world being on fire with grace.
Click to expand...
I blame Holland.
Or Bettman.
Or global warming.

Really, I've been getting my scapegoats mixed up lately. But it's definitely somebody else's fault, because after all...

images
 
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Frk It said:
I think we all know exactly who to blame...
Click to expand...

I haven't seen this yet, but holy smokes has it blown up. About 15 years ago I actually went to the Big Cat Rescue in Tampa. Used to have a branded t-shirt and everything! Wish I still did, that thing would be Ebay gold right now.

That's the same trip I saw a chubbier than expected Martin Brodeur drinking at the bar the night before a game against the Bolts.
 
haulinbass said:
Cozens is not going to play center in the NHL :popcorn:

I remember everyone in this section all high on Cozens predraft, thinking that he was going to go in the top 3-5. I remember arguing up and down that Zegras is better than Cozens, That Byram was going 3-4, that Dach is better and would be drafted above Cozens. Nobody would have it.

Ok, I'm done. People claiming Cozens is going to play center at the NHL level just really crack me up. You guys should try watching hockey sometime. Lets see how smart one of the worst drafting/developing teams in Buffalo was to pick Cozens 7th.
Click to expand...

Don't remember my own opinions about them, but checked my old average-ranks, and it was quite close between Dach and Cozens. But Dach was always in front of Cozens. There wasn't also difference at early ranks or final ranks.

Like, of 8 rankers, 5 had Dach higher and his average was a bit better. Dach also had higher ranks as high as 2nd overall on single ranks. On early ranks they were 7th and 8th. On final ranks they were 6th and 7th on averages. Dach was picked earlier, Cozens at 7th, just as his average. Newhook dropped the most in front of them.

And what happened to Blake Murray? Was there with Zegras at same average ranks 14-15th and was picked at 6th round 183 overall? Zegras goes to 9th overall.
 
Bench said:
I haven't seen this yet, but holy smokes has it blown up. About 15 years ago I actually went to the Big Cat Rescue in Tampa. Used to have a branded t-shirt and everything! Wish I still did, that thing would be Ebay gold right now.

That's the same trip I saw a chubbier than expected Martin Brodeur drinking at the bar the night before a game against the Bolts.
Click to expand...

I bet Uncle Daddy and Carole Baskins would get along famously.
 
jkutswings said:
I blame Holland.
Or Bettman.
Or global warming.

Really, I've been getting my scapegoats mixed up lately. But it's definitely somebody else's fault, because after all...

images
Click to expand...
I bet Franzen has something to do with it.

Is it a coincidence his contract is supposed to end after this season? Hmmm.
 
Bench said:
You're probably having a serious case of selective memory. There was a strong cohort of us lobbying for Dach. It wasn't some fringe thing.

Opinions here were pretty split all over the map, as there wasn't a consensus outside the top couple selections.
Click to expand...
I remember there were a few who stated before and immediately after the Dach pick that they had wanted him. I said "shit" when Chicago grabbed him, but was thrilled a few pages later when we got Seider.
I was just looking at that thread, it's a fun read.
Edit: Draft begins on pg. 13. Dach pick is on pg. 14. Seider on pg. 19.

GDT: - Are You Ready to Rummmm...er, Draaaaaaft!

May as well link our predictions as well:
Pre-Game Talk: - Call Your Shot - 2019 NHL Draft
 
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Nut Upstrom said:
I remember there were a few who stated before and immediately after the Dach pick that they had wanted him. I said "shit" when Chicago grabbed him, but was thrilled a few pages later when we got Seider.
I was just looking at that thread, it's a fun read.
Edit: Draft begins on pg. 13. Dach pick is on pg. 14. Seider on pg. 19.

GDT: - Are You Ready to Rummmm...er, Draaaaaaft!

May as well link our predictions as well:
Pre-Game Talk: - Call Your Shot - 2019 NHL Draft
Click to expand...

Good news, I reacted okay on the re-read of the GDT...:laugh:
 
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