Prospect Info: #69(nice)OA - Hurricanes select LHD Alexander Nikishin (Spartak - KHL)

[cptjeff]

The whole sanctions bit probably prevents us from trying to buy out his contract again, doesn't it? God I hate that we still have to wait a season and a half before he can come to the NHL.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

The whole sanctions bit probably prevents us from trying to buy out his contract again, doesn't it? God I hate that we still have to wait a season and a half before he can come to the NHL.

The cba prevents it. Nhl clubs can’t directly pay Russian clubs money and in turn we wouldn’t be able to give nikishin enough bonus money for him to do it

 

[chaz4hockey]

The cba prevents it. Nhl clubs can’t directly pay Russian clubs money and in turn we wouldn’t be able to give nikishin enough bonus money for him to do it

Isn't the agreement with Ru a grey area right now or am i mis-reading that?

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Isn't the agreement with Ru a grey area right now or am i mis-reading that?

I believe the grey area is the legality of the contract standing up in court. Does a NA team have a reasonable expectation that their contract would hold up in court if a player left for Russia and started playing there? I think the current sentiment is no. The player would never be made available to return. So, should NA teams then honor their contracts for a player who wishes to leave russia for a better opportunity? Would an international court uphold the contract and require the player to be returned to their Russian organization? Would an international court even take the case in the current environment?

 

[mikeyfan]

I believe the grey area is the legality of the contract standing up in court. Does a NA team have a reasonable expectation that their contract would hold up in court if a player left for Russia and started playing there? I think the current sentiment is no. The player would never be made available to return. So, should NA teams then honor their contracts for a player who wishes to leave russia for a better opportunity? Would an international court uphold the contract and require the player to be returned to their Russian organization? Would an international court even take the case in the current environment?

Curious, what if the player defects to come here and ask for asylum? Would that throw the proverbial monkey wrench in the CBA?

 

[CanesUltimate11]

I believe the grey area is the legality of the contract standing up in court. Does a NA team have a reasonable expectation that their contract would hold up in court if a player left for Russia and started playing there? I think the current sentiment is no. The player would never be made available to return. So, should NA teams then honor their contracts for a player who wishes to leave russia for a better opportunity? Would an international court uphold the contract and require the player to be returned to their Russian organization? Would an international court even take the case in the current environment?

Didn’t we see this happen with the goalie the Flyers signed? He was suspended by the IIHF as was his team but there was no attempt to force him to return or for his KHl team to void the contract he signed.

Granted I don’t think the Flyers pursued any legal action but would agree with your assessment if they had.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Didn’t we see this happen with the goalie the Flyers signed? He was suspended by the IIHF as was his team but there was no attempt to force him to return or for his KHl team to void the contract he signed.

Granted I don’t think the Flyers pursued any legal action but would agree with your assessment if they had.

Yea exactly. The flyers goalie signed a deal with the Flyers when his deal with his Russian squad expired. Then Russia put the clamps down and revoked his ability to leave. They said military conscription for you, to the front you go

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

I doubt Nikishin would go that route though, he probably wants to live in Russia after his career is finished.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

I doubt Nikishin would go that route though, he probably wants to live in Russia after his career is finished.

Family to worry about

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

Goal (EN) and assist today. Leads the K in scoring among D men, and pretty handily. A bit lower scoring pace vs last year but not by much and I think we can confidently say last year's scoring was no fluke. Whether that translate to the NHL, I don't know. Not sure he'll be a 60-70+ point guy but I'm pretty confident he will be a 40-50 point guy at least, given that he plays special teams and top 4 minutes 5v5.

He has been an elite shutdown defender too, great instincts and stickwork in the D zone, he knows how to use his big frame to keep the front of the net clear and obviously on the rush he's a unique power hitter. Not enough can be said about how good this dude has developed since we drafted him.

The heart issue still creeps in the back of my mind but it hasn't even come up in years so hopefully it never does. Other than that I get people being weary of him not coming over and the impact of potential further political instability. But I don't think a player of his caliber can afford not to come to NHL, and as soon as he can at this point. Earning potential is just so significantly different, not to even mention the legacy factor, etc. I have no concerns of getting him over here and in reading Russian articles, seeing interviews about him/SKA/etc. it seems pretty well understood over there it's just a matter of time.

 

[Stickpucker]

Ya'll make it sound like this guy is a russian Chris Pronger.

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

Ya'll make it sound like this guy is a russian Chris Pronger.

My brother in Christ, Pronger is the Canadian Alex Nikishin.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

My brother in Christ, Pronger is the Canadian Alex Nikishin.

Chris Pronger was really a time traveling Alexander Nikishin in disguise

 

[chaz4hockey]

 

[MinJaBen]

Chris Pronger was really a time traveling Alexander Nikishin in disguise

So he has eye problems and heart problems now?

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

Goal (EN) and assist today. Leads the K in scoring among D men, and pretty handily. A bit lower scoring pace vs last year but not by much and I think we can confidently say last year's scoring was no fluke. Whether that translate to the NHL, I don't know. Not sure he'll be a 60-70+ point guy but I'm pretty confident he will be a 40-50 point guy at least, given that he plays special teams and top 4 minutes 5v5.

He has been an elite shutdown defender too, great instincts and stickwork in the D zone, he knows how to use his big frame to keep the front of the net clear and obviously on the rush he's a unique power hitter. Not enough can be said about how good this dude has developed since we drafted him.

The heart issue still creeps in the back of my mind but it hasn't even come up in years so hopefully it never does. Other than that I get people being weary of him not coming over and the impact of potential further political instability. But I don't think a player of his caliber can afford not to come to NHL, and as soon as he can at this point. Earning potential is just so significantly different, not to even mention the legacy factor, etc. I have no concerns of getting him over here and in reading Russian articles, seeing interviews about him/SKA/etc. it seems pretty well understood over there it's just a matter of time.

Half the current roster play like they have no heart so Nikishin with a defective one is still an upgrade.

All jokes aside, though, I hope they are monitoring him closely.

 

[cptjeff]

The cba prevents it. Nhl clubs can’t directly pay Russian clubs money and in turn we wouldn’t be able to give nikishin enough bonus money for him to do it

I think you're confusing the CBA (which I just pulled up and looked at again, and couldn't find anything about international transfers other than that they're allowed subject to the terms of a transfer agreement) and the now defunct NHL-KHL transfer agreement.

As far as I understand it, contracts and transfer between the NHL and KHL is currently a legal wild west, basically limited to a memo saying both leagues won't sign players under active contracts with the other. You're right that we can't pay Nikishin enough money to buy it out himself under ELC rules, but I'm talking transfer payment to the club, which, unless you can find a citation otherwise, I do not believe the CBA prohibits.

And a few years ago we DID offer a million bucks directly to the Russian club to transfer rights and they turned us down. There is at least some way of doing it that is not prohibited by the CBA or any other NHL agreement, we've tried. But since SKA is owned by Gazprom, I'm pretty sure that paying them money for even something that's otherwise permitted by NHL rules is now illegal under the Ukraine War related sanctions.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

I think you're confusing the CBA (which I just pulled up and looked at again, and couldn't find anything about international transfers other than that they're allowed subject to the terms of a transfer agreement) and the now defunct NHL-KHL transfer agreement.

As far as I understand it, contracts and transfer between the NHL and KHL is currently a legal wild west, basically limited to a memo saying both leagues won't sign players under active contracts with the other. You're right that we can't pay Nikishin enough money to buy it out himself under ELC rules, but I'm talking transfer payment to the club, which, unless you can find a citation otherwise, I do not believe the CBA prohibits.

And a few years ago we DID offer a million bucks directly to the Russian club to transfer rights and they turned us down. There is at least some way of doing it that is not prohibited by the CBA or any other NHL agreement, we've tried. But since SKA is owned by Gazprom, I'm pretty sure that paying them money for even something that's otherwise permitted by NHL rules is now illegal under the Ukraine War related sanctions.

So im not really confusing two probably just not explaining it well:

The cba puts a limit on non performance bonuses in a ELC contract (performance bonuses too but that isn’t the discussion). So the Canes can only front him so much money to do his own buy out. Im sure SKA will want a lot of money because they traded 9 pieces for him.

The lack of a transfer agreement means we can’t pay for him when he is under contract with a Russian squad. And in turn that also means NHL clubs are not allowed to directly pay money to a Russian club to get the player released. So teams get around that little rule by paying their player in signing bonus money on the elc that in turns gets paid to the khl club by the player

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

So im not really confusing two probably just not explaining it well:

The cba puts a limit on non performance bonuses in a ELC contract (performance bonuses too but that isn’t the discussion). So the Canes can only front him so much money to do his own buy out. Im sure SKA will want a lot of money because they traded 9 pieces for him.

The lack of a transfer agreement means we can’t pay for him when he is under contract with a Russian squad. And in turn that also means NHL clubs are not allowed to directly pay money to a Russian club to get the player released. So teams get around that little rule by paying their player in signing bonus money on the elc that in turns gets paid to the khl club by the player

Can you cite the rule disallowing this?

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Can you cite the rule disallowing this?

gosh! that requires effort.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

gosh! that requires effort.

Not trying to argue just genuinely curious where you're getting that from. If what you say is true and that report about us trying to pay SKA $1M to release him from his contract is true then we apparently broke some rule (or attempted to but SKA kept us from breaking it by saying no). But I'm not convinced either of those things are true...

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Not trying to argue just genuinely curious where you're getting that from. If what you say is true and that report about us trying to pay SKA $1M to release him from his contract is true then we apparently broke some rule (or attempted to but SKA kept us from breaking it by saying no). But I'm not convinced either of those things are true...

That report was refuted by a reputable Russian journalist according to that main board thread

I know in some of the mou’s between the two leagues they agreed to honor contracts and not mettle.

I’ll have to dig it up later

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

That report was refuted by a reputable Russian journalist according to that main board thread

I know in some of the mou’s between the two leagues they agreed to honor contracts and not mettle.

I’ll have to dig it up later

not intending to "gotcha" you here at all but I looked up that thread and found some interesting quotes from you... curious what you learned since then to change your tune?

Rumor: - Carolina Hurricanes offered 1 million USD to Spartak Moscow/KHL for D Nikishin

According to journalist Zislis (reliable source), Carolina Hurricanes offered 1 million USD to Spartak Moscow (KHL) to buy out D Alexander Nikishin. This happened when he played for Spartak but Zislis does not specify the time. Nikishin was traded to SKA in 2022. Based on NHL Transfer...

forums.hfboards.com

Regarding whether that report was true or not, I don't think we have any idea. 1 reputable Russian journalist reported it in the first place. Another after says it's not true (but implying that was from the perspective of the club and how it would've been a bad look for Spartak, suggesting it could've been true we offered but a bad look for Spartak to even consider so they denied it happened in the first place). Again, no idea what the truth is.

 

[cptjeff]

This is what the CBA says on contracts with another league:

(c) By 5:00 p.m. New York time on the second (2nd) day after the conclusion of the
Filing Period, the League may reject the SPC if the evidence in the possession of the League does not establish that one of the following conditions for approval has been satisfied:

​

(i) the Player is not subject to another contract; or​

​

(ii) if the Player is subject to another contract, neither the club outside North​

America nor its league or national federation objects to the Player signing​

and abiding by the terms of the SPC while remaining under contract to the​

other club.​

​

If the other club, league, and federation consent (ie, if we pay them off) the CBA allows it. I can't find a damn thing about paying money outside the NHL to facilitate that agreement. Absent a rule otherwise, such as those that might be found in an NHL-KHL transfer agreement, it's permitted. IIRC, the way it works with the IIHF transfer is that there's a fixed transfer fee for any player so that you don't have cases where teams have to pay millions extra for budding stars- but absent that agreement to restrain the fees, anyone can pay anything.

 

[Caser]