Prospect Info: 6 scouts sacked -Gare-MACGREGOR -Davis-Hawley-Samenko-Moores

[Payne]

Does anyone know which regions/leagues these guys covered?

According to Mark Spector Davis scouted the West and Hawley was Ontario.

 

[DipsyMcDoodles]

Like I said its like the Senate taking several years to figure out it needs to do something about "billable expenses"


Sorry if I don't subscribe to the captain obvious genius of this org.

Very little that this org ever does impresses me. But I wonder why that is.

Has best summer in the past thirty years, still disappointed with the organization.

Le sigh

 

[Game 8]

This year is irrelevant because the Oilers hold the number one pick and we all know who they are selecting.

The #16 pick (if not traded) hinges on who the other teams are selecting ahead of them.....so knowing who they want to select does not mean they will get that player because he might be on someone else's list.

Second round and later rounds is such a crap shoot anyways and luck plays an important part in the scouting equation.

Has nothing to do with it if you have Scouting talent and you are diligent and disciplined. Doesn't matter if one guy just went off the board just before you pick. If scouts have done their job they likely have someone else besides the consensus in that spot anyway in fact they likely have a few options.

 

[SK13]

********?

Worse.

When I posted that, HFBoards failed to censor the swear. Looks like some mod edited my post manually.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Nelson being gone is one of the worst things to happen to this org. I think we're forgetting that one of the very few good persons in this org is gone.

Absolutely I don't subscribe that Mclellan when last seen was anything to get excited about. he just vacated the biggest gongshow in the league that occurred under his watch.

Why do people figure that Chia and Mclellan are automatically going to improve fortunes here? I just don't get that. if anything they have been granted more carte blanche than failing predecessors. That could work both ways.

 

[SK13]

Really? The only reason people even post here again is we lucked out and won the Connor McDavid Mcderby. Longtime posters here realize this is true and that the board was comparatively vacated for much of this past season.

I guess its bandwagon central though now. When's the parade?

Not all of us like to mire ourselves in negativity every minute of every day.

I haven't posted much during the last few seasons because the hockey I was watching pissed me off. I'd rather tune out and focus on my many other hobbies than revisit my disappointment and anger on a message board after the fact.

I don't think that makes me a "bandwagoner". I'm back every offseason (and was this year, before McDavid) because the offseason has been more interesting and hopeful than the actual season.

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

If it hasn't already been posted:

Davis and Hawley join head amateur scout Stu MacGregor, and pro scout Morey Gare on way out. More changes expected soon.

I'm surprised that these were the two named, Davis just cause of how long his family has been a part of this organization, this definitely wouldn't of happened under the old regime. Then Hawley cause I think we've been doing relatively well in the OHL.

Just looking at our OHL picks of the last 9 years (he started in the 05/06 season):

2006:
Theo Peckham (75th overall)- I'd consider this a decent pick 3rd rounder that played 160 NHL games and the thing that prevented him from playing more was not training properly, that should be nipped in the butt on the development side.
Bryan Pitton (133rd overall)- Really bad pick, always questionable how much input the regional scout have on goalies, usually goalie scouts pick the goalies they like.

2007:
Sam Gagner (6th overall)- He's going to have a long career might not look as nice as fellow OHLer Logan Couture taken 3 spots later, but definitely a solid hit and I'd blame us rushing him to the NHL and poor development and constantly rotating coaches as the reason he didn't turn out better. Put him in Detroit and I'm guessing he's a star player, atleast as good as Hudler.

2008 & 2009:
None

2010:
Taylor Hall (1st overall)- No credit all the scouts would of watched him. If I recall he did say he liked Hall better then Seguin in Oil Change, when Stu MacGregor was leaning a bit the other way.
Ryan Martindale (61st overall)- Failed pick.

2011:
Tobias Rieder (114th overall)- Solid steal in the 4th round, bad management is the only reason we didn't capitalize on it.

2012:
Nail Yakupov (1st overall)- Everyone would of watched him and it doesn't matter anyway cause Katz vetoed the scouts choice to go with Yakupov
Daniil Zharkov (91st overall)- Failed pick, was considered a bit of a homerun boom or bust pick at the time.

2013:
Darnell Nurse (7th overall)- Best d-man in the OHL & dominant at last WJC U-20 tournament hard to complain about that
Kyle Platzer (96th overall)- Looks like a good pick so far.

2014:
None

So I see two late round hits for our OHL team (Peckham & Rieder) 2 late round misses (Martindale & Zharkov) and a maybe in Platzer and I suspect the goalie pick should be blamed on Chabot. That's not that bad, maybe his lists looked like garbage with the benefit of hindsight, but based on the picks we made our OHL selections don't seem like they are particularly bad to me.

 

[Jumptheshark]

I'm surprised that these were the two named, Davis just cause of how long his family has been a part of this organization, this definitely wouldn't of happened under the old regime. Then Hawley cause I think we've been doing relatively well in the OHL.

Just looking at our OHL picks of the last 9 years (he started in the 05/06 season):

2006:
Theo Peckham (75th overall)- I'd consider this a decent pick 3rd rounder that played 160 NHL games and the thing that prevented him from playing more was not training properly, that should be nipped in the butt on the development side.
Bryan Pitton (133rd overall)- Really bad pick, always questionable how much input the regional scout have on goalies, usually goalie scouts pick the goalies they like.

2007:
Sam Gagner (6th overall)- He's going to have a long career might not look as nice as fellow OHLer Logan Couture taken 3 spots later, but definitely a solid hit and I'd blame us rushing him to the NHL and poor development and constantly rotating coaches as the reason he didn't turn out better. Put him in Detroit and I'm guessing he's a star player, atleast as good as Hudler.

2008 & 2009:
None

2010:
Taylor Hall (1st overall)- No credit all the scouts would of watched him. If I recall he did say he liked Hall better then Seguin in Oil Change, when Stu MacGregor was leaning a bit the other way.
Ryan Martindale (61st overall)- Failed pick.

2011:
Tobias Rieder (114th overall)- Solid steal in the 4th round, bad management is the only reason we didn't capitalize on it.

2012:
Nail Yakupov (1st overall)- Everyone would of watched him and it doesn't matter anyway cause Katz vetoed the scouts choice to go with Yakupov
Daniil Zharkov (91st overall)- Failed pick, was considered a bit of a homerun boom or bust pick at the time.

2013:
Darnell Nurse (7th overall)- Best d-man in the OHL & dominant at last WJC U-20 tournament hard to complain about that
Kyle Platzer (96th overall)- Looks like a good pick so far.

2014:
None

So I see two late round hits for our OHL team (Peckham & Rieder) 2 late round misses (Martindale & Zharkov) and a maybe in Platzer and I suspect the goalie pick should be blamed on Chabot. That's not that bad, maybe his lists looked like garbage with the benefit of hindsight, but based on the picks we made our OHL selections don't seem like they are particularly bad to me.

LC went back to JR for TWO FULL year and did one year in the AHL--Oilers rushed Gagner because they decided that was the best thing to do--The send Gagner back to JR for a year or two--he is a different player

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

Not sure why Davis and Hawley are the ones getting the boot. Our OHL picks have been looking decent for the most part, with picks like Reider already seeing NHL action. PC better not be purging them for the sole purpose of bringing in Mike Chiarelli. Even if the latter has a good track record with Boston, I'd much rather he be added as an extra voice than be given a monopoly over the region. I'm not sure how Bill Dandy still has a job, our QMJHL returns have been beyond dreadful.

 

[zar]

Based on performance and comparison to their peers, the move to relieve these scouts from their duties was long overdue. They are as much to blame for the rebuild failure as the others that have gone before them.

The call for accountability is refreshing.

No more hiding behind friends... do your job or out you go.

 

[TimeForAnOilChange]

This could be a tell that some of the draft picks will be traded. There might already be deals in place but they won't be announced until on the draft floor for entertainment purposes.

I was going to post something similar, it seems strange to fire them this close to the draft, unless...

A) Chia already knows who he wants at the draft, or...

B) He has trades either in mind or already done as you have said

It doesnt really make sense to bring in new scouts this close to the draft (unless, like others have mentioned, maybe he is bringing in his brother or others from the Bruins org because of familiarity).

 

[Oilers10]

I love Connor McDavid!!!!

- Lowe gone
- MacT gone
- Stu gone
- Gare gone
Guys like Rielly even considered signing with us (even though he is not anymore)

So many things have changed for the better since we won the lotto.

 

[Samus44]

I love Connor McDavid!!!!

- Lowe gone
- MacT gone
- Stu gone
- Gare gone
Guys like Rielly even considered signing with us (even though he is not anymore)

So many things have changed for the better since we won the lotto.

He's really the guy i'm happiest to see leave, i always assumed a GM is more or less the real head scout for NHL talent but he never did seem all that good at his job. There was a time where we could find good journeymen D but that seemed to stop happening once Tambellini took over/Huddy left. There's just no way Gare had ever been doing a competent job.

 

[Aceboogie]

Whos better, NHL ametuer scouts or picking the best player available as ranked by ISS? the results would actually suprise you

 

[McOilbleeder]

Lets try keep this on topic this time eh?

 

[belair]

Not sure why Davis and Hawley are the ones getting the boot. Our OHL picks have been looking decent for the most part, with picks like Reider already seeing NHL action. PC better not be purging them for the sole purpose of bringing in Mike Chiarelli. Even if the latter has a good track record with Boston, I'd much rather he be added as an extra voice than be given a monopoly over the region. I'm not sure how Bill Dandy still has a job, our QMJHL returns have been beyond dreadful.

I completely disagree with you on that front.

Our OHL drafting has been suspect for years and years.

Just from the draft history, you'd swear they rarely left the GTA on their assignments.

Hall, Yakupov and Nurse should considered 'no brainer' picks. I'd argue that Gagner could be thrown into that category as well.

'Steals' like Rieder and Peckham shouldn't save his job with a track record like that.

But I think, just looking at it, that the 2014 draft was the straw that broke the camel's back. Coming out of the draft with 6 picks, only two were guys picked in their first year of eligibility and big surprise...no OHL prospect.

And that is a very telling stat. When you see that the unanimous #1 Aaron Ekblad is what the Oilers needed in spades, add in the fact the Oilers are lining up with the very strong possibilty they could be picking him at the draft and they should've been taking in a ton of Barrie games.

How we ended up with a 19yo BCHLer, a 2nd year backup QMJHL goaltender and two 20yo US College players over guys like Kevin Lebanc and Andrew Mangiapane, who were Ekblad's ****ing teammates is astounding to me.

Good riddance to bad scouting.

 

[Mc5RingsAndABeer]

Good. Scouting has been horrendous.

I wish Lowe/MacT/Bucky/Acton would get the full axe too

 

[Jumptheshark]

we keep talking about the players we took

how about the players we did not take? What does that have to do with the price of tea in china?

Easy--we do not know why we passed on certain players

For Example in 2009 what did our scouts write about Ryan O'Reaily? Nick LEddy? Marcus Johansson?

When talking about scouting it is not just about the players we took--but the player we did not take and why. I think in a few cases the scouting reviews got factored into the sacking of these guys

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

I completely disagree with you on that front.

Our OHL drafting has been suspect for years and years.

Just from the draft history, you'd swear they rarely left the GTA on their assignments.

Hall, Yakupov and Nurse should considered 'no brainer' picks. I'd argue that Gagner could be thrown into that category as well.

'Steals' like Rieder and Peckham shouldn't save his job with a track record like that.

But I think, just looking at it, that the 2014 draft was the straw that broke the camel's back. Coming out of the draft with 6 picks, only two were guys picked in their first year of eligibility and big surprise...no OHL prospect.

And that is a very telling stat. When you see that the unanimous #1 Aaron Ekblad is what the Oilers needed in spades, add in the fact the Oilers are lining up with the very strong possibilty they could be picking him at the draft and they should've been taking in a ton of Barrie games.

How we ended up with a 19yo BCHLer, a 2nd year backup QMJHL goaltender and two 20yo US College players over guys like Kevin Lebanc and Andrew Mangiapane, who were Ekblad's ****ing teammates is astounding to me.

Good riddance to bad scouting.

So is your argument that Hawley should of more strongly argued to take someone from the OHL over these other guys? Maybe he did and Stu just listened to the advice of his other scouts over him. Isn't it better to blame the scouts who were adamant we pick the guys we ended up picking that don't look very promising so far, then someone who specializes in scouting a different region? Liam Coughlin was a Bob Brown guy and Keven Bouchard was someone Frederic Chabot really liked, Craig MacTavish was apparently quite against taking Bouchard, but since Chabot and Stu who backed Chabot's pick were so adamant about him he just deferred to them.

 

[Jumptheshark]

So is your argument that Hawley should of more strongly argued to take someone from the OHL over these other guys? Maybe he did and Stu just listened to the advice of his other scouts over him. Isn't it better to blame the scouts who were adamant we pick the guys we ended up picking that don't look very promising so far, then someone who specializes in scouting a different region? Liam Coughlin was a Bob Brown guy and Keven Bouchard was someone Frederic Chabot really liked, Craig MacTavish was apparently quite against taking Bouchard, but since Chabot and Stu who backed Chabot's pick were so adamant about him he just deferred to them.

Like I said--it would be interesting to see what was written about the players we did not take

 

[Narnia]

Good. Scouting has been horrendous.

I wish Lowe/MacT/Bucky/Acton would get the full axe too

Acton was already fired.

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

Like I said--it would be interesting to see what was written about the players we did not take

It would be very interesting to be able to read that, he could of done garbage work and the few times we did happen to listen to him he did alright, but when someone is arguing for certain players and they are horrible those are the people I would ax. Like Max Gordichuk might of been the worst player I've ever seen in the WHL, I can't imagine why anyone would recommend him all he had was size, but completely devoid of any ability that might make you think he could be an NHL player.

Cameron Abney in the 3rd round that's a garbage pick and I actually kind of like the way Abney played just way way too high for him, he's a face puncher that should be 6th-7th round territory.

 

[Narnia]

It would be very interesting to be able to read that, he could of done garbage work and the few times we did happen to listen to him he did alright, but when someone is arguing for certain players and they are horrible those are the people I would ax. Like Max Gordichuk might of been the worst player I've ever seen in the WHL, I can't imagine why anyone would recommend him all he had was size, but completely devoid of any ability that might make you think he could be an NHL player.

Cameron Abney in the 3rd round that's a garbage pick and I actually kind of like the way Abney played just way way too high for him, he's a face puncher that should be 6th-7th round territory.

Someone on the NHL board said the Oilers drafted the wrong players when they drafted #1OA.

 

[Jumptheshark]

It would be very interesting to be able to read that, he could of done garbage work and the few times we did happen to listen to him he did alright, but when someone is arguing for certain players and they are horrible those are the people I would ax. Like Max Gordichuk might of been the worst player I've ever seen in the WHL, I can't imagine why anyone would recommend him all he had was size, but completely devoid of any ability that might make you think he could be an NHL player.

Cameron Abney in the 3rd round that's a garbage pick and I actually kind of like the way Abney played just way way too high for him, he's a face puncher that should be 6th-7th round territory.

abney was a very bad that defied all logic when he was taken--I remember what the talking heads said--complete project who will nee a lot of work in all aspects of his game--starting with his skating and ability to play the game. I would love to see who said what about him--I think someone saw his size and did bother to actual watch anything but him fighting

 

[belair]

So is your argument that Hawley should of more strongly argued to take someone from the OHL over these other guys? Maybe he did and Stu just listened to the advice of his other scouts over him. Isn't it better to blame the scouts who were adamant we pick the guys we ended up picking that don't look very promising so far, then someone who specializes in scouting a different region? Liam Coughlin was a Bob Brown guy and Keven Bouchard was someone Frederic Chabot really liked, Craig MacTavish was apparently quite against taking Bouchard, but since Chabot and Stu who backed Chabot's pick were so adamant about him he just deferred to them.

It just goes to show how little his work was respected by the group.

And looking at his results, why would it be?