Prospect Info: 5th Overall Pick, Alex Turcotte, C, USNTDP UPDATED: Signs 3 Year ELC 3/11/20

[Yog S'loth]

I think at this point you just hope Turcotte can be salvaged into a Trevor Lewis.

A bottom-six center with all the intangibles and enough skill to put up some 20 point seasons on your fourth line, who elevates his game when it counts the most, and eventually turns in an 800 game NHL career. You'd have to be pretty happy with that at this point.

Lewis was a first-round pick that didn't become a full-time NHL player until he was 23. Turcotte is ahead of that curve, so there's probably good reason to think he can get there.

 

[tbrown33]

Alex Turcotte makes passes that Trevor Lewis has never even thought about trying

 

[apocalypse]

I think at this point you just hope Turcotte can be salvaged into a Trevor Lewis.

A bottom-six center with all the intangibles and enough skill to put up some 20 point seasons on your fourth line, who elevates his game when it counts the most, and eventually turns in an 800 game NHL career. You'd have to be pretty happy with that at this point.

Lewis was a first-round pick that didn't become a full-time NHL player until he was 23. Turcotte is ahead of that curve, so there's probably good reason to think he can get there.

lol

 

[tny760]

I think at this point you just hope Turcotte can be salvaged into a Trevor Lewis.

A bottom-six center with all the intangibles and enough skill to put up some 20 point seasons on your fourth line, who elevates his game when it counts the most, and eventually turns in an 800 game NHL career. You'd have to be pretty happy with that at this point.

Lewis was a first-round pick that didn't become a full-time NHL player until he was 23. Turcotte is ahead of that curve, so there's probably good reason to think he can get there.

 

[JeanBlanc]

He said he was basing his comments re: Turcotte being a "third line center" not on specific conversation he had with the Kings front office but rather based on his personal conversations with different scouts and what he perceived as Turcotte's particular "game" and skill set.

He said (and has made this distinction about other players previously) that when he mentions a third line role he means it on a Cup contending team.

Well, that's pretty tremendous. If I remember correctly, that's what he said about Phillip Danault as well.

 

[Herby]

You include playoff stats when the Kings were a high scoring team in 2012. Lame.

How about this? Richards scored 44 points in 2012 as a championship 2C and Lars Eller scored 38 points as a championship 3c in 2018. Where does Turcotte have to finish to be awesome in your eyes? Yes, regular season totals.

I included every game he played those years, you include his low scoring total when the Kings couldn't score, so how is it lame to include all the games?

And his time in Philadelphia is valid, people continue to make comparisons between him and Turcotte and I am disputing that because MR had a much higher offensive ceiling.

Lars Eller is a fine comparison for the type of player Turcotte could become. Him, or Cogliano or Copp or going further back Todd Marchant. You seem to think I hate Turcotte as a player because I dispute ridiculous comparisons like Mike Richards or Jonathan Toews which have no basis in reality. I just hate the pick used to take him, had he been a #15-20 overall pick it would be fine. But all the guys I compared him to are or were solid third line players who contributed to their teams.

To answer your other question, for the #5 overall pick to be deemed an "awesome" pick, the player would have to be a Seider type talent, that is an awesome pick. For it to be a good pick I think it's fair to expect a very high end 2nd line player from a pick that high, someone like a Mike Richards or Dylan Larkin is what I reasonably expected when the Kings took a C that high in the draft. Anything less than that and the ROI starts to slip.

 

[DrHansReinhardt]

Anyone thinking Turc was a bad pic now is Monday morning QBing. The draft was in June 2019, not yesterday. At the time he was the pick.

I looked up some rankings from 2019. Out of 16 ranking lists AT averages 4.5, TZ ranks 6.6. Three of those 16 lists rank TZ over AT, 3. All you guys smarter than the rest should apply for NHL lead scout somewhere, you missed your calling.

 

[kingsfan]

Anyone thinking Turc was a bad pic now is Monday morning QBing. The draft was in June 2019, not yesterday. At the time he was the pick.

I looked up some rankings from 2019. Out of 16 ranking lists AT averages 4.5, TZ ranks 6.6. Three of those 16 lists rank TZ over AT, 3. All you guys smarter than the rest should apply for NHL lead scout somewhere, you missed your calling.

Agreed. Not only that, the comparisons at the time of the draft were some pretty good NHLers. I believe the most common comparison I seen was to Toews. No one pegged him as Trevor Lewis 2.0. Even the downside to him wasn't to low as he was also expected to be a safe pick that wouldn't bust.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Anyone thinking Turc was a bad pic now is Monday morning QBing. The draft was in June 2019, not yesterday. At the time he was the pick.

I looked up some rankings from 2019. Out of 16 ranking lists AT averages 4.5, TZ ranks 6.6. Three of those 16 lists rank TZ over AT, 3. All you guys smarter than the rest should apply for NHL lead scout somewhere, you missed your calling.

Exactly. I mean we could review the 2020 draft where the CLEAR consensus #1 overall pick was Lafreniere...but today, could we just say it's Raymond?

It will take years to accurately evaluate these kids and what they will actually bring to the table...I don't understand why some people don't get that.

 

[LAKings88]

Anyone thinking Turc was a bad pic now is Monday morning QBing. The draft was in June 2019, not yesterday. At the time he was the pick.

I looked up some rankings from 2019. Out of 16 ranking lists AT averages 4.5, TZ ranks 6.6. Three of those 16 lists rank TZ over AT, 3. All you guys smarter than the rest should apply for NHL lead scout somewhere, you missed your calling.

I remember this draft well and how often we flip flopped everyday as a board on it. It’s not really my opinion that matters either. Fox is saying that he talked to scouts who saw him as 3c on a Stanley Cup contending team. That is fine and in the end and acceptable if he meets that roll and contributes to team success.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Yeah that draft was a toughie to make sense of even at the time.

 

[DrHansReinhardt]

I remember this draft well and how often we flip flopped everyday as a board on it. It’s not really my opinion that matters either. Fox is saying that he talked to scouts who saw him as 3c on a Stanley Cup contending team. That is fine and in the end and acceptable if he meets that roll and contributes to team success.

I take that Fox comment with a large grain of salt. I bet his thoughts were different on 06/20/2019

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

They should've listened to me...
Prospect Info: - 2019 Draft Discussion: LA Kings pick 5th, 22nd overall

 

[BigKing]

Anyone thinking Turc was a bad pic now is Monday morning QBing. The draft was in June 2019, not yesterday. At the time he was the pick.

I looked up some rankings from 2019. Out of 16 ranking lists AT averages 4.5, TZ ranks 6.6. Three of those 16 lists rank TZ over AT, 3. All you guys smarter than the rest should apply for NHL lead scout somewhere, you missed your calling.

You aren't going to find many people that were unhappy with the pick. Most people on here were stoked since people like Byram/Turcotte more than Dach.

I don't think anyone is really criticizing Blake for taking a consensus guy. We were expecting a 65 point, two-way beast of a center and now we are hoping he becomes Danault except Danault didn't become legit until his age 25 season and was basically dumped by Chicago in his D + 5 season. There is just concern that this may have been a missed pick which is the big concern when you tank: high picks are great but don't miss on them.

Anyways, nobody was going to clown Blake for that pick. His development since being drafted though is worth debating. It's not awesome when Turcotte's value has never been higher than it was in June of 2019.

 

[TruKingFan]

It's not awesome when Turcotte's value has never been higher than it was in June of 2019.

Says who? You? Besides, it’s not like Turcotte will never be better than what your perceive him to be right now unless you already wrote him off - which would be pretty damn silly.

 

[Herby]

Anyone thinking Turc was a bad pic now is Monday morning QBing. The draft was in June 2019, not yesterday. At the time he was the pick.

I looked up some rankings from 2019. Out of 16 ranking lists AT averages 4.5, TZ ranks 6.6. Three of those 16 lists rank TZ over AT, 3. All you guys smarter than the rest should apply for NHL lead scout somewhere, you missed your calling.

What about those who advocated for other picks before the draft, are they Monday Morning QB's? You can go back and check the thread that Ziggy posted, some wanted other picks.

As BigKing said, no one was overly critical of the pick at the time (even those of us who wanted other players taken), but it doesn't mean we can't criticize the pick years later and wonder why our scouts took the wrong center from the same junior program (as an example). I am far from a scout, but even I could see from watching him in college that he wasn't going to be a bigtime offensive force at the next level compared to how NHL scoring players looked at the same age at the same level(and posted as much on this board). My negativity towards the pick only came after seeing the player play in person and on tv a ton as a freshman at UW, where I was living at the time. And the comments by Fox kind of back up the notion that they were looking for a different type of player than might be expected from a team taking that high, we should be able to question whether that was the right call or not.

The Rankings thing is all true and valid, but Dave Taylor just drafted the highest CSB player for like 95% of his picks (unless there was a 6'6 unicorn available). And we all agree DT was fired mostly for poor drafting results.

The last pot shot comment is one that is unfortunately said on this and other boards many times and it makes zero sense every time it's said. This is a forum where fans discuss the team. By what you say none of us should talk about the Kings in any way, we shouldn't criticize any of the players because none of us are as good as them, any of the management because none of us are managers or any of the coaches because none of us are coaches (boy would the GDT's be thin out if we followed that rule). I don't normally care what people like on a forum, but I am pretty shocked that as many of you "liked" that message with the last part in it, it just goes so against what our community here is. Everyone should be able to have an opinion on any player, coach or manager without having to get a response like that, it adds nothing to the discussion.

Also, while none of us are scouts there are people on this forum who do try and contribute information about Kings young players whose opinion and contributions I greatly enjoy. KP watches a ton of video on prospects and formulates his lists, we have Reign season ticket holders who add quality input on players down there, we have members who live near CHL teams who can add their own takes, I have season tickets to UM hockey and get to see any Big Ten prospects we take. A lot of people do add a lot to this forum, and we all aren't idiots, just saying.

 

[BigKing]

Says who? You? Besides, it’s not like Turcotte will never be better than what your perceive him to be right now unless you already wrote him off - which would be pretty damn silly.

Anyone under contract or that has their rights held by a professional sports team is an asset, much like a stock.

Initial buy in of Turcotte stock was expensive and it has only gone down since the initial offering. Nobody is giving up the 5OA in this draft for him: I don't think anyone would have done that in any draft that has followed either.

I'm not saying the stock can't eventually return to its original level but it does seem like most are hoping for just a slight loss at this point that isn't a big deal if the rest of the portfolio performs well.

 

[Herby]

Says who? You? Besides, it’s not like Turcotte will never be better than what your perceive him to be right now unless you already wrote him off - which would be pretty damn silly.

If the Kings decided to offer Alex Turcotte to every team in the NHL at the draft for their 1st round pick what number do you think it would get to before someone said yes? If it's beyond #5, his point is correct.

 

[DoktorJeep]

I was happy with the Turcotte selection because he was touted by the majority as a top five pick. The only things that worried me as a Kings fan with Turk was a lack of high end shot and possibly inflated point totals playing on a team of high school ringers.

At the time I liked Krebs because he was more of a goal scorer in juniors and he was far and away the top producer on a bad team. He also came from a development program far outside the major hockey univserse and found a path to thriving.

But even there, he’s had major injury issues as was traded to Buffalo as part of the Eichel deal.

 

[BigKing]

I was happy with the Turcotte selection because he was touted by the majority as a top five pick. The only things that worried me as a Kings fan with Turk was a lack of high end shot and possibly inflated point totals playing on a team of high school ringers.

At the time I liked Krebs because he was more of a goal scorer in juniors and he was far and away the top producer on a bad team. He also came from a development program far outside the major hockey univserse and found a path to thriving.

But even there, he’s had major injury issues as was traded to Buffalo as part of the Eichel deal.

I wanted Byram and that looks rough as well.

 

[DrHansReinhardt]

You aren't going to find many people that were unhappy with the pick. Most people on here were stoked since people like Byram/Turcotte more than Dach.

I don't think anyone is really criticizing Blake for taking a consensus guy. We were expecting a 65 point, two-way beast of a center and now we are hoping he becomes Danault except Danault didn't become legit until his age 25 season and was basically dumped by Chicago in his D + 5 season. There is just concern that this may have been a missed pick which is the big concern when you tank: high picks are great but don't miss on them.

Anyways, nobody was going to clown Blake for that pick. His development since being drafted though is worth debating. It's not awesome when Turcotte's value has never been higher than it was in June of 2019.

I remember that draft day well. Most expected Turc to go 3rd. We all hoped for Byram. I will be patient with Turc. The Kings are doing good without him. His addition will only boost the big club once he arrives.

People also gloss over the crazy stops and starts that the last 2 years have wrought. These draft classes are going to unfold like no other we have seen before.

 

[Herby]

I wanted Byram and that looks rough as well.

I wanted them to swing for the fences and take Caufield. Just so sick of the Kings having the same problems at the NHL level and in the system. It's been a roller coaster ride, but I think he'd be somewhere in the Kings top 9, although I think it's also possible had CC come in to LA and played well at the end of last year they maybe don't trade for VA, and VA has been stellar for the Kings, better than CC would have been this season.

I know there were Zegras people (I was worried if he'd be able to play C) and some Cozens people (just brought back Dave Taylor unicorn vibes for me). What is funny is, I don't remember a single person talking up Seider at all and if the redraft were held tonight I'd venture to say 31 of 31 would take him 1OA.

 

[BigKing]

I wanted them to swing for the fences and take Caufield. Just so sick of the Kings having the same problems at the NHL level and in the system. It's been a roller coaster ride, but I think he'd be somewhere in the Kings top 9, although I think it's also possible had CC come in to LA and played well at the end of last year they maybe don't trade for VA, and VA has been stellar for the Kings, better than CC would have been this season.

I know there were Zegras people (I was worried if he'd be able to play C) and some Cozens people (just brought back Dave Taylor unicorn vibes for me). What is funny is, I don't remember a single person talking up Seider at all and if the redraft were held tonight I'd venture to say 31 of 31 would take him 1OA.

I think Seider was pretty off the board for 5OA.

It seemed pretty much a grab bag starting at 5 so I was ready for almost anything. When Dach went, it was guaranteed that one of Byram or Turcotte would be there which was unexpected so it felt like the grab-bagginess of the pick became a no-brainer.

I was hoping for a move up to snag Caufield of Kaliyev later in the 1st. So stoked they wound up with Kaliyev and I'm still extremely high on him.

 

[DrHansReinhardt]

What about those who advocated for other picks before the draft, are they Monday Morning QB's? You can go back and check the thread that Ziggy posted, some wanted other picks.

As BigKing said, no one was overly critical of the pick at the time (even those of us who wanted other players taken), but it doesn't mean we can't criticize the pick years later and wonder why our scouts took the wrong center from the same junior program (as an example). I am far from a scout, but even I could see from watching him in college that he wasn't going to be a bigtime offensive force at the next level compared to how NHL scoring players looked at the same age at the same level(and posted as much on this board). My negativity towards the pick only came after seeing the player play in person and on tv a ton as a freshman at UW, where I was living at the time. And the comments by Fox kind of back up the notion that they were looking for a different type of player than might be expected from a team taking that high, we should be able to question whether that was the right call or not.

The Rankings thing is all true and valid, but Dave Taylor just drafted the highest CSB player for like 95% of his picks (unless there was a 6'6 unicorn available). And we all agree DT was fired mostly for poor drafting results.

The last pot shot comment is one that is unfortunately said on this and other boards many times and it makes zero sense every time it's said. This is a forum where fans discuss the team. By what you say none of us should talk about the Kings in any way, we shouldn't criticize any of the players because none of us are as good as them, any of the management because none of us are managers or any of the coaches because none of us are coaches (boy would the GDT's be thin out if we followed that rule). I don't normally care what people like on a forum, but I am pretty shocked that as many of you "liked" that message with the last part in it, it just goes so against what our community here is. Everyone should be able to have an opinion on any player, coach or manager without having to get a response like that, it adds nothing to the discussion.

Also, while none of us are scouts there are people on this forum who do try and contribute information about Kings young players whose opinion and contributions I greatly enjoy. KP watches a ton of video on prospects and formulates his lists, we have Reign season ticket holders who add quality input on players down there, we have members who live near CHL teams who can add their own takes, I have season tickets to UM hockey and get to see any Big Ten prospects we take. A lot of people do add a lot to this forum, and we all aren't idiots, just saying.

Look, no one is trying to say not to have a debate, lets not be extreme. All I am saying is harkening back 3 years and pretending you would have got it right is my issue. I went through the last dozen or so pages on the old draft thread. I did find a couple comments from you regarding the draft.

here's one, "I'll be disappointed if the Kings don't end up with one of Byram, Turcotte or Caufield." -Herby

 

[Herby]

Look, no one is trying to say not to have a debate, lets not be extreme. All I am saying is harkening back 3 years and pretending you would have got it right is my issue. I went through the last dozen or so pages on the old draft thread. I did find a couple comments from you regarding the draft.

here's one, "I'll be disappointed if the Kings don't end up with one of Byram, Turcotte or Caufield." -Herby

Yes, it was true and I was enthusiastic about the draft pick because based on what I read the Kings were getting a Mike Richards caliber player. I never said otherwise and happy you brought up that post, eliminates any point people try and make about being a "hater" before I ever saw him play. I was enthusiastic enough to buy tickets to a bunch of Wisconsin games to go see him play and realized right away that the projections were wrong and the Kings probably made a mistake. And I was not the only one, the consensus amongst their fanbase was that Turcotte was a disappointing player relative to hype, not a terrible player but not what you expect from a Top 5 NHL pick joining your program. Considering how strong the NTDP was that year (I believe 11 1st rounders), I was disappointed that the Kings scouts who I presume had spent a good amount of time in Plymouth and other venues seeing the U-18 team play that year were not able to spot offensive deficiencies that were quite visible in seeing him play multiple times that first year. Now from reading the Jim Fox's takes it's apparent that they probably did consider them but couldn't pass up on the other intangibles and assumed the offense would come around (how Kings of them). I continue to think that with a pick that high you should be looking for a 1st line forward or #1 d-man or at the very least an elite 2nd liner or #2 d-man.

BTW, this discussion was re-started on this board because of Fox's interview. If Fox had said "Hey, they thought Turcotte had 1st line Jonathan Toews potential when they drafted him" no one is having all these discussions, it's just chalked up to a bad evaluation and projection. We are having this discussion because Fox says the Kings drafted him with the expectation he'd be "an elite 3rd liner" and whether that is a good way to maximize a Top 5 pick in a rebuild.

I think Seider was pretty off the board for 5OA.

It seemed pretty much a grab bag starting at 5 so I was ready for almost anything. When Dach went, it was guaranteed that one of Byram or Turcotte would be there which was unexpected so it felt like the grab-bagginess of the pick became a no-brainer.

I was hoping for a move up to snag Caufield of Kaliyev later in the 1st. So stoked they wound up with Kaliyev and I'm still extremely high on him.

Kaliyev certainly takes a lot of the sting off of the Turcotte pick, the Kings may have taken a 10-15 pick loss on Turcotte but I think Kaliyev would be an easy Top 15-20 pick atleast by now, so it kind of cancels out. The Kings 2nd round drafting under Blake has been stellar.