Post-Game Talk: #54| STL 2 at PHI 0| Mon., Feb 6, 2017 | Konecny injury update: out 4-to-6 weeks, LBI

[dingbathero]

I've contributed to the anti-Hakstol vitriol, but in all seriousness I'd like to see the effects of replacing a couple of the assistant coaches for next season. Bring on someone who can actually scrawl out plans for a non-static PP, or a PK coach who dissuades the use of VandeVelde and Bellemare as PK1.

yes please, more movement on the ice... too many times we seem to telegraph everything. I'm at home and can tell what will happen next. We have a good PP now, but **** it could be better.

 

[deadhead]

On most teams this year he'd actually get some help and he would be near PPG.

3rd line?

His need to defend the coach makes him ignore reality. It's literally taken over his entire being.

Really, I didn't know they were playing VdV on Giroux's line?
There is nothing different about the players Giroux has surrounding him this year v the last few years, the only difference is Giroux's production at ES, which has been steadly declining.

How would you rate an undersized center who is limited defensively who is toward the bottom in ES scoring among forwards?
Among forwards with 500+ minutes
Giroux is ranked 235 (of 254) in points per 60 minutes ES
PEB 254
Schenn 238
Raffl 219
Couts 198
Simmonds 188
Voracek 145
Konecny 112

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Now Hextall needs to go too. Glad to see reason carrying the day.

 

[deadhead]

This is just one writer's opinion, but it's quite thorough.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill...fense-Conundrum-Ghost-Giroux-Goalies/45/82780

Seems like Bill and I have seen the same thing with Giroux:

For now, I will put forth an anecdotal observation that I don't think he has skated very well all season -- going all the way back to getting hurt at the World Cup of Hockey. That burst of speed and separation that was a big part of his game has rarely been there this season, and I think that has been a big piece of his five-on-five struggles.

 

[Striiker]

Really, I didn't know they were playing VdV on Giroux's line?
There is nothing different about the players Giroux has surrounding him this year v the last few years, the only difference is Giroux's production at ES, which has been steadly declining.

How would you rate an undersized center who is limited defensively who is toward the bottom in ES scoring among forwards?
Among forwards with 500+ minutes
Giroux is ranked 235 (of 254) in points per 60 minutes ES
PEB 254
Schenn 238
Raffl 219
Couts 198
Simmonds 188
Voracek 145
Konecny 112

Are you aware that Giroux is a playmaker?

That he relies on teammates for his points by giving them perfect passes and hoping/assuming that they can tap it in?

-People are *****ing about Voracek as much, if not more than, Giroux because he's been making some awful plays/decisions.

-Raffl is merely a placeholder until a better option comes along.

-Giroux spent some time with Read and Raffl as linemates... great help there... really being put in a position to succeed by your hero Hakstol.

-Then on D... every pair has one good-great player and one bad-atrocious player on it... not exactly going to help much there. Plus, our best offensive defensemen is in a slump.



So are you going to pretend that Giroux is failing while everyone else is succeeding? As if this is all on him and isn't a ton of different factors all contributing to one disappointing season?

Come on, wake up.

 

[Johnk0728]

Are you aware that Giroux is a playmaker?

That he relies on teammates for his points by giving them perfect passes and hoping/assuming that they can tap it in?

-People are *****ing about Voracek as much, if not more than, Giroux because he's been making some awful plays/decisions.

-Raffl is merely a placeholder until a better option comes along.

-Giroux spent some time with Read and Raffl as linemates... great help there... really being put in a position to succeed by your hero Hakstol.

-Then on D... every pair has one good-great player and one bad-atrocious player on it... not exactly going to help much there. Plus, our best offensive defensemen is in a slump.



So are you going to pretend that Giroux is failing while everyone else is succeeding? As if this is all on him and isn't a ton of different factors all contributing to one disappointing season?

Come on, wake up.

Are you saying Giroux has no responsibility for his poor 5 on 5 play? Come one...be honest. I think he is hurt as he has no jump like he used to. But stop w/ excuses and blaming everyone else.

 

[hatcher]

G hasn't made a nice play in it seems forever for a playmaker either. Nothing there.

 

[Striiker]

Are you saying Giroux has no responsibility for his poor 5 on 5 play? Come one...be honest. I think he is hurt as he has no jump like he used to. But stop w/ excuses and blaming everyone else.

No, that's not at all what I said.

If you read my last two posts you'd know what I was saying and wouldn't need to ask me.

What I said is that if he were on a better team he'd probably have more help and then his own struggles wouldn't be magnified. If multiple people are slumping at the same time then it makes it all look worse. If one person is slumping and others are fine they can pick up the slack until the slumping player breaks out of it.

 

[bennysflyers16]

John Boruk is a complete fool on twitter

 

[Striiker]

John Boruk is a complete fool on twitter

Why would you ever follow that clown?

 

[deadhead]

The talent this year is similar to the last 2-3 years, a couple years ago there was Streit and MDz as the only decent D-man, last year it was Ghost, this year it's Provorov and Gudas. The forwards are the same, unless you want to suggest that G's dropoff is due to the absence of Vinnie and Umberger?

 

[CSKA1974]

repeated post

 

[renberg]

The talent this year is similar to the last 2-3 years, a couple years ago there was Streit and MDz as the only decent D-man, last year it was Ghost, this year it's Provorov and Gudas. The forwards are the same, unless you want to suggest that G's dropoff is due to the absence of Vinnie and Umberger?

I believe that the only new/different players for the Flyers for this season are Gordon, Weise, Lyubimov and Stolarz. Last season just about everything broke the Flyers way and they were able to eke a way into the POs. This season its been the opposite. I'm not going to get down on Hak. He doesn't have a lot to work with right now.
I do agree that there is need to change the assistant coaches. They're doing the same thing on many situations that they've been doing for years. Then again, maybe that's all that the guys on this roster at this time can do. Worst of all its back to the old issue of the defensemen not being able to get the puck out of the zone too often causing the forwards to have to come back and do it for them. That alone will kill a team's 5 on 5 chances.
BTW, my call on these comments by Hex is BS. http://www.csnphilly.com/philadelph...ux-fine-after-hit-world-cup-hockey-exhibition
He was damaged then and there and it has affected his play all season. The captain is a warrior and will play through almost anything with no complaints just like he did late last season and into the POs.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

As per Bill Meltzer:
Just a quick note for those who feel that a coaching change right now to hire Claude Julien --- not something that has a shot at being reality, but something that's being debated on social media -- would be a panacea. The Flyers have a 67-48-21 record under Hakstol in tenure to date. Julien in the same span was 68-54-15 in Boston with a comparable or perhaps slightly better overall roster on paper.

Exactly.

Julien is a good NHL coach, and he has a worse record with a better Bruins roster than Hakstol has in his Flyers tenure.

I think this puts a perfect perspective on the job Hakstol has done so far, and illustrates that Hakstol isn't nearly as bad as many fans here are clamoring.

 

[Rebels57]

Exactly.

Julien is a good NHL coach, and he has a worse record with a better Bruins roster than Hakstol has in his Flyers tenure.

I think this puts a perfect perspective on the job Hakstol has done so far, and illustrates that Hakstol isn't nearly as bad as many fans here are clamoring.

Julien won 53 games in his 2nd season behind the Bruins bench.

Hes been there a long time. He lasted into his 10th season there. A new voice is eventually needed.

Hes a Jack Adams and Cup winner.

Julien is one of the best in the business.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Julien won 53 games in his 2nd season behind the Bruins bench.

Hes been there a long time. He lasted into his 10th season there. A new voice is eventually needed.

Hes a Jack Adams and Cup winner.

Julien is one of the best in the business.

exactly...

id be happy as a pig in **** if we had a decent coach for 10 yrs... like Lavi it was simply time for him to move on...

Haks time is up already and hes NEVER been good...

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Julien won 53 games in his 2nd season behind the Bruins bench.

Hes been there a long time. He lasted into his 10th season there. A new voice is eventually needed.

Hes a Jack Adams and Cup winner.

Julien is one of the best in the business.

? I acknowledged Julien is a good NHL coach.

I just said that since last season, Julien has a worse record than Hakstol despite Julien having a slightly better roster.

I don't see the logic in people thinking the Flyers should dump Hakstol for a guy Hakstol has a better record than over the same span with less talent.

 

[TCTC]

Not to mention it would be an extremely opportunistic move that I can only see a bush league franchise like the Panthers doing.
As a coach I would think twice before signing with a team that fires their guy just because someone "better" has become available.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Not to mention it would be an extremely opportunistic move that I can only see a bush league franchise like the Panthers doing.
As a coach I would think twice before signing with a team that fires their guy just because someone "better" has become available.

Hextall put a ton of effort in convincing Hakstol to leave a great job he loved at North Dakota.

He's not going to dump Hakstol in just 2 seasons with a .570 record.

Fans love to turn on a coach. It's the easy way out. Way easier than recognizing that perhaps you are overrating the team's players. IMO, much of the blame that goes around on this board boils down to protecting fan favorites like Giroux and Ghost.

You've got people clamoring to hire Julien, who Hakstol is ahead of in the standings this season with a lesser roster, and last season Hakstol made the playoffs and Julien didn't. The Hakstol hatred is over-the-top. I far from agree with everything Hakstol does, but his overall record with the Flyers is as good as you can expect.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Coaching and player issues aside, I am becoming extremely tired of this "re-build". Isn't it about time we begin to see some success or at least minor improvement? We seem to be maintaining at best but probably going backward. As much as I have been a supporter, it will soon be time to look at Hextal. IMHO.

There's been Provorov! Laughton stalling has been a pretty big setback though. Hopefully he learns not to suck

 

[Rebels57]

Hextall put a ton of effort in convincing Hakstol to leave a great job he loved at North Dakota.

He's not going to dump Hakstol in just 2 seasons with a .570 record.

Fans love to turn on a coach. It's the easy way out. Way easier than recognizing that perhaps you are overrating the team's players. IMO, much of the blame that goes around on this board boils down to protecting fan favorites like Giroux and Ghost.

You've got people clamoring to hire Julien, who Hakstol is ahead of in the standings this season with a lesser roster, and last season Hakstol made the playoffs and Julien didn't. The Hakstol hatred is over-the-top. I far from agree with everything Hakstol does, but his overall record with the Flyers is as good as you can expect.

Boston has been better at 5v5 than us (not by much but still) and is the BEST possesion team in the league.

The only reason we are ahead in Points Percentage is because of our Powerplay being better..

They also have a banged up Bergeron clearly not at his best.

And its absolutely relevant that Julien has been there for 10 seasons and should be a factor in comparing Bostons performance to ours this season. Even Scotty Bowman changed teams multiple times. Its the nature of sports.

Julien >>> Hak

 

[Lindberg]

Justifying the reason to keep Hakstok over Julien because he has a better record is ridiculous and is the most basic stat watching one could do. Doesn't take much to look at this team's play and realize we should be much farther down because they won 10 games straight (luckily) and this team #1 PP is extremely good. I don't know how anyone can look at this team and go oh I'm happy with the ES play of this team. The PK and #2 PP area lot easier to fix (i.e. get rid of the crap coaches) but the ES play is partially on the coaches and players.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Justifying the reason to keep Hakstok over Julien because he has a better record is ridiculous and is the most basic stat watching one could do. Doesn't take much to look at this team's play and realize we should be much farther down because they won 10 games straight (luckily) and this team #1 PP is extremely good. I don't know how anyone can look at this team and go oh I'm happy with the ES play of this team. The PK and #2 PP area lot easier to fix (i.e. get rid of the crap coaches) but the ES play is partially on the coaches and players.

I don't think it's ridiculous at all to note:

Last season Hakstol made the playoffs, Julien did not, even though most would agree Hakstol had the weaker roster.

This season Hakstol's team is slightly above Julien's team in the standings and point%, even though most would agree Hakstol has at least a slightly weaker roster.

Since Hakstol took over, Hakstol is 67-48-21 (.570) vs. Julien's 68-54-15 (.551) even though most would agree Hakstol has had at least slightly weaker roster.

There's just no evidence that the Flyers would have a better record with Julien. Hakstol has achieved better results with less.

 

[flyersfan187]

Coaches sour on teams after being there so long. Julien is still one of the best and he knows he has options and would probably get which ever job opened up that he would like.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Julien won 53 games in his 2nd season behind the Bruins bench.

Hes been there a long time. He lasted into his 10th season there. A new voice is eventually needed.

Hes a Jack Adams and Cup winner.

Julien is one of the best in the business.

great coaches usually come with great goaltenders.
Does Julien get that Cup with Tim Thomas having a historically great season.
I am not trying to diminish the job he did in Boston, but the guy was fortunate to have some really good goaltenders on his clubs. Thomas and now Rask who is starting to wear down because they had to play him every night.