GDT: #48 | Red Wings at Flyers | Tuesday, January 21, 2025 | 7:00 PM | NBCSP, 93.3 FM

[Hollywood Cannon]

“b/c it's hard to rack up points if your linemates can't finish and can't pass to you.”

Hmm… feel like I’ve heard that argument dismissed before with regards to younger players falling with the Flyers but who am I?

 

[deadhead]

“b/c it's hard to rack up points if your linemates can't finish and can't pass to you.”

Hmm… feel like I’ve heard that argument dismissed before with regards to younger players falling with the Flyers but who am I?

You mean when people claimed Frost was failing b/c he didn't get good linemates then it turned out his minutes were mostly with TK, Tippett, Farabee, Atkinson, the best scoring wings on the team?

 

[Boocowski]

Why do you think people don't like John or the direction of the Flyers? Care to enumerate us with some facts or you just going continue to ignore all of that?

Read a lot of posts here from the time he was hired onwards. They are here I'm sure you've seen them.

He was supposed to be a dynamic offensive dman when the Sabres drafted him, and he's now a safe stay at home bottom pairing dman with almost zero offence to his game. The Flyers made him into a useful player, but also the exact opposite of what he was supposed to be back when he was a prospect.

I think because of his size he was supposed to be a complete D man both offensive and defensive. The offensive side is coming back out now imo. Now that he has relearned the defensive side, which is what was not developed properly in Buffalo.

You can see Buffalo doing the exact same thing with Owen Power. His offensive side is fine, but his D is atrocious.

 

[Boocowski]

Other than MIchkov, there isn't much to build off of here. Nothing that is happening under Tortorella or that happened last night is going to be a part of this team getting anywhere. Everything that is happening now is just delaying any chance they have. Playing for each other, culture is all nonsense.


Its the same thing as when Snider mandated Holmgren to fix the goaltending. He didn't tell him to sign Bryzgalov

No it isn't nonsense. It's essential.

 

[MJL66]

No it isn't nonsense. It's essential.

What's essential is building a team with elite talent with the right mix of players, with quality players development an coaching behind it. Everything else is just buzzwords and selling points that some Flyers fans have been brainwashed by.

 

[Beef Invictus]

No it isn't nonsense. It's essential.

So everyone managing the team should probably be fired since they're so horrible at building it, right? We've been trying to fix the culture for 12 straight years and the team keeps trending down while needing culture resets every year, and being so hamstrung by culture concerns that they can't make any moves to get better.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

You mean when people claimed Frost was failing b/c he didn't get good linemates then it turned out his minutes were mostly with TK, Tippett, Farabee, Atkinson, the best scoring wings on the team?

In that conversation you claimed that Frost had the best linemates of anyone on the team while you yourself directly contradicted your statement by posting the numbers which showed he did not and even then you still carried on.

I mean when these “kids” get called up and get stuck with the Deslauriers, VandeVelde, and Stewart’s of the world and get criticized for not scoring at any rate. They were dead on arrival but hey we’ve been told this is fine and good management and player development and none of it actually matters because it wouldn’t make this team a Cup Contender.

 

[CerpinTaxt]

Read a lot of posts here from the time he was hired onwards. They are here I'm sure you've seen them.


I think because of his size he was supposed to be a complete D man both offensive and defensive. The offensive side is coming back out now imo. Now that he has relearned the defensive side, which is what was not developed properly in Buffalo.

You can see Buffalo doing the exact same thing with Owen Power. His offensive side is fine, but his D is atrocious.

Have you read them? Cause it sure doesn't seem like with your lack of comprehension

 

[Boocowski]

What's essential is building a team with elite talent with the right mix of players, with quality players development an coaching behind it. Everything else is just buzzwords and selling points that some Flyers fans have been brainwashed by.

Or some of us understand what it takes to build a playoff winning team. So agree to disagree. A level of talent is of course required, but it's not that simple.

So everyone managing the team should probably be fired since they're so horrible at building it, right? We've been trying to fix the culture for 12 straight years and the team keeps trending down while needing culture resets every year, and being so hamstrung by culture concerns that they can't make any moves to get better.

Disagree. Fixing the culture began when they hired Torts and then cleared out the ones he pointed at. It's been on the upswing ever since.

 

[MJL66]

Or some of us understand what it takes to build a playoff winning team. So agree to disagree. A level of talent is of course required, but it's not that simple.


Disagree. Fixing the culture began when they hired Torts and then cleared out the ones he pointed at. It's been on the upswing ever since.

Clearly you don't if you think it takes culture. Yep, it's on the upswing with Tortorella. Recently they had a 9.3% chance of making the playoffs and now it's a 10.3% chance. That culture build and upswing is full steam ahead.

 

[ybnvs]

Well, Seeler is our best offensive D-man this season,

Sanheim*

 

[ybnvs]

Fixing the culture began when they hired Torts

Do you honestly not remember the insane amount of PR gaslighting from the media under Fletcher & AV about having the best lockerroom in the league?

It's such a joke, dude.

Winning games grows culture. You most often win by being the more talented team. Squeaking into the playoffs is fool's gold. Being mired in mediocrity (like the Flyers are) is The Darkest Timeline.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Or some of us understand what it takes to build a playoff winning team. So agree to disagree. A level of talent is of course required, but it's not that simple.


Disagree. Fixing the culture began when they hired Torts and then cleared out the ones he pointed at. It's been on the upswing ever since.

How can you know that? Considering we have players bailing, players refusing to come here, players and their agents openly malcontent, that's a wild conclusion to make with zero evidence. Tortorella was voted the most hated coach in the league by players once, beating out even Babcock. That toxicity is always bad for culture. He faced player revolts in NY and Vancouver and TB celebrated his departure and refuses to invite him to events because he's so toxic and hated.

There have been no results to indicate an upswing either. You say that culture causes winning. They're the same thing they've been since 2013.

No team has ever won by taking this culture obsessed path. No team ever will, because you are sacrificing the shit that actually matters for a thing that doesn't. In fact, across sports, some of the best teams of all time have had absolutely wretched cultures, further showing how irrelevant it is. They had skill, and that's what matters. I know Disney movies insist you can just try real hard and beat people way better than you, but that isn't how the real world work aside from the one time; and it would have failed in a 7 game series.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Do you honestly not remember the insane amount of PR gaslighting from the media under Fletcher & AV about having the best lockerroom in the league?

It's such a joke, dude.

Winning games grows culture. You most often win by being the more talented team. Squeaking into the playoffs is fool's gold. Being mired in mediocrity (like the Flyers are) is The Darkest Timeline.

The team has been obsessively chasing "culture" over skill since the Dry Island mess. This period aligns perfectly with the longest stretch of futility in franchise history.

That's not a coincidence.

 

[DAVIDE1333]

The team has been obsessively chasing "culture" over skill since the Dry Island mess. This period aligns perfectly with the longest stretch of futility in franchise history.

That's not a coincidence.

Bring back cocaine and hookers (just kidding).

 

[deadhead]

How can you know that? Considering we have players bailing, players refusing to come here, players and their agents openly malcontent, that's a wild conclusion to make with zero evidence. Tortorella was voted the most hated coach in the league by players once, beating out even Babcock. That toxicity is always bad for culture. He faced player revolts in NY and Vancouver and TB celebrated his departure and refuses to invite him to events because he's so toxic and hated.

Gauthier is basically it. And it's obvious he's a bit weird.
Who is "openly malcontent?" Hayes? TDA?
TK just signed an 8 year deal.

 

[ybnvs]

TK just signed an 8 year deal.

Irrelevant.

That has nothing to do with him liking Tortorella, since you know, Tort's contract ends after next season and TK's starts next season.

Furthermore, TK attributes his great success to Giroux, not Tortorella.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Gauthier is basically it. And it's obvious he's a bit weird.
Who is "openly malcontent?" Hayes? TDA?
TK just signed an 8 year deal.

Krug refused to come here. We have no idea who else they've been unable to entice. Sanheim. Couturier. Farabee. Frost, as starters. Zero percent chance they've forgotten their wretched treatment.

 

[deadhead]

Krug refused to come here. We have no idea who else they've been unable to entice. Sanheim. Couturier. Farabee. Frost, as starters. Zero percent chance they've forgotten their wretched treatment.

Player refuses to leave home to go to a team that won't make the playoffs until he retires. Shocker!

The others:

"You have many contacts among the lumberjacks
To get you facts when someone attacks your imagination"

 

[Beef Invictus]

Player refuses to leave home to go to a team that won't make the playoffs until he retires. Shocker!

The others:

"You have many contacts among the lumberjacks
To get you facts when someone attacks your imagination"

You know what IS a shocker? That we know so many players are malcontent, and we know the team was malcontent in general at the end of last season. That's a massive shock for the NHL, and yet we know it. It was made known. That's how bad it is.

There is a reason Tortorella has faced so many player revolts and is not welcome by TB alumni, and it isn't because they love him so much they get cute aggression.

 

[deadhead]

You know what IS a shocker? That we know so many players are malcontent, and we know the team was malcontent in general at the end of last season. That's a massive shock for the NHL, and yet we know it. It was made known. That's how bad it is.

There is a reason Tortorella has faced so many player revolts and is not welcome by TB alumni, and it isn't because they love him so much they get cute aggression.

Lumberjacks. "We don't know squat."
Where is Dubois forcing a trade?
In fact, the opposite, players on the block keep expressing how much they want to stay.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Lumberjacks. "We don't know squat."
Where is Dubois forcing a trade?
In fact, the opposite, players on the block keep expressing how much they want to stay.

Every f***ing NHL player says that even while their agent is actively working to get them traded. I know you are not this naive or gullible. I know you are only pretended to be because it's what you have to do to defend the failures. I also know that within months of Tortorella being gone, you'll start saying all the same things I'm saying while pretending like it's a fact you've known all along.

You can drop the act.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Every f***ing NHL player says that even while their agent is actively working to get them traded. I know you are not this naive or gullible. I know you are only pretended to be because it's what you have to do to defend the failures. I also know that within months of Tortorella being gone, you'll start saying all the same things I'm saying while pretending like it's a fact you've known all along.

You can drop the act.

odds of that happening are 0.0%

 

[Boocowski]

Do you honestly not remember the insane amount of PR gaslighting from the media under Fletcher & AV about having the best lockerroom in the league?

It's such a joke, dude.

Winning games grows culture. You most often win by being the more talented team. Squeaking into the playoffs is fool's gold. Being mired in mediocrity (like the Flyers are) is The Darkest Timeline.

Disagree. I know there's some of you who just talk about tanking and all that and some of you have done it for years and you won't convince me to buy into that bs. Go talk to Buffalo fans about how great tanking works. It doesn't.

As far as the PR goes I never pay attention to that. The Briere presser was total bs but it's what all those GMs do. Could have been worse, he could have said Philly doesn't have palm trees. What I look at is what I see on the ice. How they play. Their emotional levels. Their effort levels. Whether they quit or not. These are the things you see that tell you about the culture. It is currently very different from the Fletcher era.

I think there are solid positive signs. The team is more fun to watch lately and as long as they keep moving forward and get better every year I'm fine with it. Would I like it to go faster? Sure, who wouldn't? But as long as it gets better and better it's all good.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Disagree. I know there's some of you who just talk about tanking and all that and some of you have done it for years and you won't convince me to buy into that bs. Go talk to Buffalo fans about how great tanking works. It doesn't.

As far as the PR goes I never pay attention to that. The Briere presser was total bs but it's what all those GMs do. Could have been worse, he could have said Philly doesn't have palm trees. What I look at is what I see on the ice. How they play. Their emotional levels. Their effort levels. Whether they quit or not. These are the things you see that tell you about the culture. It is currently very different from the Fletcher era.

I think there are solid positive signs. The team is more fun to watch lately and as long as they keep moving forward and get better every year I'm fine with it. Would I like it to go faster? Sure, who wouldn't? But as long as it gets better and better it's all good.

Go talk to Pittsburgh, Washington, TB, Colorado, LA, and Chicago fans to find out that it does work.