GDT: #45 | Flyers at Blue Jackets | Tuesday, January 14, 2025 | 7:00 PM | NBCSP+, 93.3 FM

[Beef Invictus]

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They didn't screw up his development.
Provorov was stubborn to a fault, and he was physically maxed out at 19.
He thought he was a star, turns out he was a complementary player who only played well with the right partner.

They screwed up his development.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The Flyers do seem to enjoy drafting those types of players.

This was the write-up on Patrick from THW in 2017 -

While Patrick is the consensus best player in the 2017 Draft class, he’s not considered a potential elite player the way similarly-situated players were in previous draft classes. The reason? He’s not bad at anything, but it’s argued that he doesn’t have a single aspect of his game that’s especially dynamic or dominant. He’s really good, but he’s not tearing apart the league mercilessly the way Auston Matthews did the Swiss League or Nathan MacKinnon ripped apart the Quebec League.​

This is the write-up on Oliver Bonk -

Whoever drafts Bonk is likely securing a safe bet for a future top-four defenseman. He doesn’t have any glaring holes in his game, and while there are no stand-out skills that stick out above the rest, he is one of the safest defensive prospects to draft in the back half of the first round.​

​

And the one for Luchanko -

Luchanko took key defensive zone face-offs on his strong side. His combination of speed, skill, compete and smarts project him as a top six NHL forward. Luchanko isn't elite in any one category, but he's an excellent all-round prospect who contributes better than secondary offence without sacrificing three zone detail.​

I guess the Flyers have a type. And it's vanilla.

And York!

 

[BillDineen]

The Flyers do seem to enjoy drafting those types of players.

This was the write-up on Patrick from THW in 2017 -

While Patrick is the consensus best player in the 2017 Draft class, he’s not considered a potential elite player the way similarly-situated players were in previous draft classes. The reason? He’s not bad at anything, but it’s argued that he doesn’t have a single aspect of his game that’s especially dynamic or dominant. He’s really good, but he’s not tearing apart the league mercilessly the way Auston Matthews did the Swiss League or Nathan MacKinnon ripped apart the Quebec League.​

This is the write-up on Oliver Bonk -

Whoever drafts Bonk is likely securing a safe bet for a future top-four defenseman. He doesn’t have any glaring holes in his game, and while there are no stand-out skills that stick out above the rest, he is one of the safest defensive prospects to draft in the back half of the first round.​

​

And the one for Luchanko -

Luchanko took key defensive zone face-offs on his strong side. His combination of speed, skill, compete and smarts project him as a top six NHL forward. Luchanko isn't elite in any one category, but he's an excellent all-round prospect who contributes better than secondary offence without sacrificing three zone detail.​

I guess the Flyers have a type. And it's vanilla.

Seems like a recipe to find high end talent outside of the top of the draft like they plan!

 

[dragonoffrost]

There is a picture needed in this thread but I don't want the smackdown it would bring.

But I will say there is more defense of the front office in this thread than the Eagles play.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

The Flyers do seem to enjoy drafting those types of players.

This was the write-up on Patrick from THW in 2017 -

While Patrick is the consensus best player in the 2017 Draft class, he’s not considered a potential elite player the way similarly-situated players were in previous draft classes. The reason? He’s not bad at anything, but it’s argued that he doesn’t have a single aspect of his game that’s especially dynamic or dominant. He’s really good, but he’s not tearing apart the league mercilessly the way Auston Matthews did the Swiss League or Nathan MacKinnon ripped apart the Quebec League.​

This is the write-up on Oliver Bonk -

Whoever drafts Bonk is likely securing a safe bet for a future top-four defenseman. He doesn’t have any glaring holes in his game, and while there are no stand-out skills that stick out above the rest, he is one of the safest defensive prospects to draft in the back half of the first round.​

​

And the one for Luchanko -

Luchanko took key defensive zone face-offs on his strong side. His combination of speed, skill, compete and smarts project him as a top six NHL forward. Luchanko isn't elite in any one category, but he's an excellent all-round prospect who contributes better than secondary offence without sacrificing three zone detail.​

I guess the Flyers have a type. And it's vanilla.

I agree, they have drafted many players with no standout skills in the past, and Patrick, Provorov, and Bonk are good examples.

Gauthier at least had an elite shot. I will disagree on the above write-up about Luchanko not being elite in any one category, because his speed is certainly elite.

Foerster at least appeared to have a standout shot, which was refreshing.

Maybe the best example of a Flyers first round pick who had absolutely no standout skills is German Rubtsov.

 

[mr4tno]

I wouldn't say Provorov was the slam dunk pick at the time.

I badly wanted Barzal at 7. I liked Werenski better than Provorov, but I did still like Provorov even though as the draft approached I felt he was being overrated. Unfortunately, Provorov was the wrong choice over what turned out to be multiple much better players. I don't think botched development is the reason.

Unfortunately, this is a common theme amongst many of the Flyers picks

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Unfortunately, this is a common theme amongst many of the Flyers picks

Way too many missed opportunities. The Flyers could easily be in a different, much better place right now.

 

[flyersnorth]

I agree, they have drafted many players with no standout skills in the past, and Patrick, Provorov, and Bonk are good examples.

Gauthier at least had an elite shot. I will disagree on the above write-up about Luchanko not being elite in any one category, because his speed is certainly elite.

Foerster at least appeared to have a standout shot, which was refreshing.

Maybe the best example of a Flyers first round pick who had absolutely no standout skills is German Rubtsov.

Agree about Luchanko, and thought it was surprising they didn't mention it.

Tippett has elite speed and I often see that his brain can't keep up with the footspeed in real time. He sometimes looks surprised he got somewhere and is thinking "now what?"

Hopefully Luchanko can harness that speed in a more deliberate way.

I will admit that I don't follow draft prospects at all, but it really does sound like the Flyers passed on a dynamic talent like Buium in favour of a safe player in a position of need.

Time will tell, but drafting the safe or vanilla player, like Patrick, Bonk, Provy, Luchanko hasn't really yielded great results.

The last truly dynamic player they drafted is Ghost. And they gave him away. Literally.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I strongly defended the Ginning pick. At 50th overall in that draft, there really wasn't much available. Durzi, I guess?

I really liked Hallander. That's who I wanted. But he hasn't done anything.

I figured Ginning was at least a lock to make the NHL as a 3rd pairing D and penalty killer. He had size, strength, and though his skating needed refinement he wasn't lead-footed at all. Seemed like an intelligent player. I really liked him in international play.

I think Torts even said he expected Ginning to make the Flyers this season, but he had a bad camp.

Looks like he's flat-lined and won't make it as a full-time NHLer. Though the way many on here spoke of him, which was complete and utter disparagement, they never thought he'd come close to having 10 games in the NHL at this point.

I guess you could call it another flopped 1st and 2nd rounder for Hextall. But boy the pickings were slim. Figures Marchenko went one pick before Ginning, though Hextall probably wouldn't have taken Marchenko.

 

[Curufinwe]

Well, there's Michkov.

I guess the Flyers have a type. And it's vanilla.

Slightly OT, but EggNog ice cream is excellent if you want something slightly more exciting than vanilla or French vanilla.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Agree about Luchanko, and thought it was surprising they didn't mention it.

Tippett has elite speed and I often see that his brain can't keep up with the footspeed in real time. He sometimes looks surprised he got somewhere and is thinking "now what?"

Hopefully Luchanko can harness that speed in a more deliberate way.

I will admit that I don't follow draft prospects at all, but it really does sound like the Flyers passed on a dynamic talent like Buium in favour of a safe player in a position of need.

Time will tell, but drafting the safe or vanilla player, like Patrick, Bonk, Provy, Luchanko hasn't really yielded great results.

The last truly dynamic player they drafted is Ghost. And they gave him away. Literally.

I was PISSED about the Bonk pick on draft night. I thought, "Great, we just drafted another Jeff Woywitka in the 20s." And, "They really forced this to draft a RHD."

Yes, I wanted Perreault like most of us.

I didn't see anything that Bonk did very well, except he did seem smart.

I changed my tune when I saw him with the Flyers that summer -- rookie game, rookie camp, regular camp, preseason.

He seemed like a gangly kid who was improving rapidly and had excellent hockey sense and anticipation.

I then thought, "Well, maybe we do have something here. Maybe they recognized a raw teenager who was only at the tip of the iceberg but who was showing signs of rapid improvement and on the verge of breaking out."

Then, last season, he did have a pretty big coming out party, making the WJCs, putting up great stats.

I will say he does seem to have a much better shot than it appeared when they drafted him. Hence how dangerous he's been in the "bumper" on the PP, which you never see from a D-man.

We'll see how it goes. I certainly don't think he's going to be any kind of star in the NHL. But, he at least may be a D-man worthy of a 22nd overall pick.

 

[flyersnorth]

Well, there's Michkov.


Slightly OT, but EggNog ice cream is excellent if you want something slightly more exciting than vanilla or French vanilla.

Yes, Michkov of course...

 

[Curufinwe]

I really disagree with the concept that Provy's development was screwed up. From the jump, they gave him top line minutes with PP time. The Flyers gave him every opportunity to develop into a top line defenseman...But he didn't. It wasn't because of development, it was because he just was not good enough. He didn't have the skill package to do so.

That's not revisionists history either. There were many here saying 'pump the breaks' on Provy. He is a good, but limited, player.

The whole team was based around getting him the right partner and the right minutes and the right usage and he still ended up disappointing. Just one example is that in his last three seasons in Philly, Provorov only played 370 minutes with Risto at 5on5, and they had a ghastly on ice record of 11 GF - 22 GA.

Defensive Pairs - Natural Stat Trick

Sanheim played 1414 minutes with Risto, and managed to more than break even at 61 GF - 56 GA.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I agree, they have drafted many players with no standout skills in the past, and Patrick, Provorov, and Bonk are good examples.

Gauthier at least had an elite shot. I will disagree on the above write-up about Luchanko not being elite in any one category, because his speed is certainly elite.

Foerster at least appeared to have a standout shot, which was refreshing.

Maybe the best example of a Flyers first round pick who had absolutely no standout skills is German Rubtsov.

The jury has always been out on his shot, too. It stank of Large Boy does Strong Things to Low-Level Goalies, and overall it hasn't translated in any particularly strong way at higher levels. A good shot to be sure. Maybe it can become elite with better shooting position choices. But as used now, not a standout. It's a very hard shot but that's about it. He's below average at making it actually go in.

Like a pitcher who throws 100mph but batters have no trouble fouling it all day until they get hits.

My question with him has always been "does he have the ability to fundamentally change his game to become useful?" And that's a big worry. I generally don't want players to need big changes to how they play. Well, at least not in this development gulag.

 

[Nizzle]

I'm quite late to the party, but "physically maxed out at 19" is probably the dumbest thing I've heard, at least today.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

The jury has always been out on his shot, too. It stank of Large Boy does Strong Things to Low-Level Goalies, and overall it hasn't translated in any particularly strong way at higher levels. A good shot to be sure. Maybe it can become elite with better shooting position choices. But as used now, not a standout. It's a very hard shot but that's about it. He's below average at making it actually go in.

Like a pitcher who throws 100mph but batters have no trouble fouling it all day until they get hits.

My question with him has always been "does he have the ability to fundamentally change his game to become useful?" And that's a big worry. I generally don't want players to need big changes to how they play. Well, at least not in this development gulag.

Yeah, we'll see. Gauthier certainly isn't going to get the long-distance goals he was able to get at the amateur level. He has to stop flinging it from absolutely everywhere. I think in the broadcast Saturday JJ and Boucher said the Ducks' coaches have been working with him on that. I thought, "Oh, I'm sure."

5 on 5 he's going to have to be coached to use his size and strength to drive the net more instead of settling for wild perimeter shots. It'll be interesting to see if he has the heart, courage, and competitiveness to drive the net regularly.

That said, his shot should always be a PP weapon, because he can hang out in his spot around the right circle and fire one-timers. From that location, it's highly dangerous.

 

[Chicken N Raffls]

Maybe the best example of a Flyers first round pick who had absolutely no standout skills is German Rubtsov.

So his elite FPS gaming skills just get forgotten about? SMH

 

[Ghosts Beer]

So his elite FPS gaming skills just get forgotten about? SMH

LOL

 

[deadhead]

There is a good reason to have some "safe" players.
Bonk will have good size, good shot, high IQ, think Attard if he had a brain.
Guys like him have 10-15 year NHL careers, because they're the perfect type to pair with a smaller, mobile offense first D-man.
There's only one puck, which means the other four players better be able to play off the puck.

Luchanko will be a good choice to play with Tippett, TK or Michkov. He has the speed to keep up with the first two, and the defensive IQ to cover for Michkov, who will always be prone to mistakes b/c you want him to be aggressive on offense. Couts did that in his prime, but his lack of speed makes it hard to be involved in offense yet still be able to get back and CYA for linemates.

A good team has a mixture of skill packages where players complement each other.

Bad teams can be talented but be a mixture of misfit toys.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yeah, we'll see. Gauthier certainly isn't going to get the long-distance goals he was able to get at the amateur level. He has to stop flinging it from absolutely everywhere. I think in the broadcast Saturday JJ and Boucher said the Ducks' coaches have been working with him on that. I thought, "Oh, I'm sure."

5 on 5 he's going to have to be coached to use his size and strength to drive the net more instead of settling for wild perimeter shots. It'll be interesting to see if he has the heart, courage, and competitiveness to drive the net regularly.

That said, his shot should always be a PP weapon, because he can hang out in his spot around the right circle and fire one-timers. From that location, it's highly dangerous.

He's shown no serious playmaking ability either so he's really going to have minimal utility anywhere that isn't within the highest quality scoring areas around the net