GDT: #40 | Flyers at Leafs | Sunday, January 5, 2024 | 7:00 PM TONIGHT | NBCSP, 97.5 FM

[ybnvs]

No. The talent has to come into the culture. If not, you get Buffalo.

Teams across every sport draft and trade for talent first, not culture.

You may want the Flyers to draft and trade for culture first, but that's just not how the sports world works.

Tell me, when drafting players for culture - what exactly are you looking for? Itemize the criteria you require for 17-18yr old boys.

 

[CerpinTaxt]

To be clear, nowhere have I said the current team is any good. It's not.

Where we differ is that I see a pathway that leads to success and continued success after the 26/27 season. They might screw it up of course, but I can see a way it can work out well. I will not hold Briere or Jones to mistakes made by Fletcher or earlier. I find that just negativity for the sake of being negative. It's an easy "told you so" and it seems to revel in failure. I would not watch at all rather than live in that world.

I see you're still ignoring the massive blunders current management has been making while talking this fair shake nonsense. Also choosing to ignore that this management group is in the same mold of management that's been in place for the Flyers since the 1990s. It's amazing how you equate facts into being negative

Yours is the half empty pessimist view. You can have that. Not for me. I find that way of living unhealthy. If I felt that pessimistic about my sports team I would stop watching just to clear my head of the negativity. Or I'd find a new team.
So you can have that view, and you can say the past mistakes guarantee future ones but you won't get me to sail on that sinking ship.

No one's living pessmisticly we're talking about a hockey team not our lives. You're method of enjoying the team is sticking your head in the sand labeling posters as negative because you don't have any cogent arguments against the reality that is this team. No one cares how you live your life or what you do as a fairweather fan just start posting shit that makes sense.

 

[deadhead]

Teams across every sport draft and trade for talent first, not culture.

You may want the Flyers to draft and trade for culture first, but that's just not how the sports world works.

Tell me, when drafting players for culture - what exactly are you looking for? Itemize the criteria you require for 17-18yr old boys.

That's not true, smart teams build draft boards around players they think are good fits.

They'll take players off the draft board or drop them a tier or two if they don't have the right intangibles (or the wrong ones).

"Talent" is a mix of attributes, work ethic for example increases the odds a player will translate raw physical talent to production. Motor, IQ, etc. You're drafting a package of physical and mental attributes and character. And you're projecting from lower level performance to high level pro performance, so looking great in the CHL doesn't necessarily translate to the NHL. Projecting a player at 18 to 22-23 isn't an exact science.

 

[deadhead]

Tell me, when drafting players for culture - what exactly are you looking for? Itemize the criteria you require for 17-18yr old boys.

You don't draft for "culture," you draft for attributes that correlate to professional success.
The one's I'd look for apart from raw physical talent:

IQ, on offense, vision, seeing the ice and how plays unfold, being able to anticipate, on defense, understanding responsibilities and positioning and angles.
Work Ethic: some players work harder off the ice, they improve their skating, their shot, get stronger, study film more than their peers, and given their physical limits, improve more
Motor: some players have more drive, stamina, recover quicker, play at full speed every shift
Competitiveness: some players hate to lose and play that way
Self-motivated/emotionally secure: some players can handle criticism and use it to self-evaluate, don't need to be pushed, set an example for teammates, natural leaders

These attributes can't turn an average player into McDavid, but they increase the odds that the player will improve over time and outperform expectations based on current play at lower levels.

 

[MJL66]

That's not true, smart teams build draft boards around players they think are good fits.

They'll take players off the draft board or drop them a tier or two if they don't have the right intangibles (or the wrong ones).

"Talent" is a mix of attributes, work ethic for example increases the odds a player will translate raw physical talent to production. Motor, IQ, etc. You're drafting a package of physical and mental attributes and character. And you're projecting from lower level performance to high level pro performance, so looking great in the CHL doesn't necessarily translate to the NHL. Projecting a player at 18 to 22-23 isn't an exact science.

Yes, it is true. A team is not going to take a more talented player and drop him down the board because of a lesser important intangible. Unless there is some serious red flag. These are kids that are not adults. Are not physically, mentally or emotionally mature. At least the smart team won't, Now if players are similarly talented then other factors can be a tie breaker. That's the Flyers problem. The most likely reason they drafted Luchanko over Buium is because they liked his intangibles. His 200 foot game, work ethic, etc. They continually overvalue other factors over talent. It's part of why they're not a well run franchise and in fact, one of the worst run franchises in the NHL.

 

[Beef Invictus]

No. The talent has to come into the culture. If not, you get Buffalo.

Colorado and Pittsburgh completely puke on this idea. Likewise Florida.

There's a reason the Flyers have spent a decade hyper focused on building culture and the sum result is that the culture is still crap and the team is bad.

Edit: oh TB too, we heard all about how their culture is bad.


Weird how so many teams can have wretched culture that has to be fixed via sweeping trades, only for the team's to do nothing and the culture to be magically fixed by winning. Winning breeds culture. Talent breeds winning. You want culture? Get the talent.

Edit 2: The Flyers are already Buffalo. The exact same. We are already there.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Red Queen effect. As the rules allowed smaller, more skilled players to thrive, the league got slightly smaller (about 5 lbs) and faster. But this also made players who could skate, forecheck and play defense more valuable than bigger, slower, more physical players. So the league has gotten faster in the bottom six, and those small skilled players have smaller windows and face physical play from faster players who can hound them.

Flyers are 13th in ES scoring, ahead of Minnesota, NJ and Florida.
Last 21 games, they're 4th in ES scoring, so seems they've become the team you want.
They're 6th in xGF/60, so they're not doing it on some sort of scoring heater.
They need to improve STs and goalies to be competitive.
ES scoring will continue to improve as they incrementally add talent and get more experience.

Now compare shooting percentages last year and this year and tell me if you think an enormous jump up the ladder by the same players is due to last.

 

[MJL66]

Colorado and Pittsburgh completely puke on this idea. Likewise Florida.

There's a reason the Flyers have spent a decade hyper focused on building culture and the sum result is that the culture is still crap and the team is bad.

As you know, the situation in Buffalo has nothing to do with culture. For the Flyers, culture is an invisible product and talking point that they market and sell to their mostly gullible fan base. Yea, we suck but we're doing things the right way, building culture. It's used car salesman BS.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Colorado and Pittsburgh completely puke on this idea. Likewise Florida.

There's a reason the Flyers have spent a decade hyper focused on building culture and the sum result is that the culture is still crap and the team is bad.

Edit: oh TB too, we heard all about how their culture is bad.


Weird how so many teams can have wretched culture that has to be fixed via sweeping trades, only for the team's to do nothing and the culture to be magically fixed by winning. Winning breeds culture. Talent breeds winning. You want culture? Get the talent.

Don't forget that they've had the best locker room in the league several times only for the locker room to be blamed for the issues.

 

[Beef Invictus]

As you know, the situation in Buffalo has nothing to do with culture. For the Flyers, culture is an invisible product and talking point that they market and sell to their mostly gullible fan base. Yea, we suck but we're doing things the right way, building culture. It's used car salesman BS.

There's also the fact that the Flyers are the same as Buffalo so they don't work as a boogeyman

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

There's also the fact that the Flyers are the same as Buffalo so they don't work as a boogeyman

Saw today on Twitter that the Flyers, Sabres, and Utah’s are the only teams not to host a second round game since the 2013 lockout.

Would really suck to be the Sabres.

 

[kudymen]

Backreading feels like there is some really weird new animal at the zoo. Like really, really weird.

 

[ybnvs]

That's not true, smart teams build draft boards around players they think are good fits.

When drafting at the top of the 1st round, you do not draft for fit.

 

[deadhead]

Of course you draft for fit, why would you want a player who's a bad fit to your style of play?
When Rutherford promoted Sullivan, he also replaced a half dozen players who didn't fit the way Sullivan wanted the Pens to play.

This doesn't mean you reach, rather, when putting draft tiers together, you weigh all these different attributes and how they impact value to your team. Most players have flaws and limitations, building a team is like putting a crossword puzzle together, which is why even smart GMs have different values for different prospects.

Really talented players with good intangibles can play any style, that's why they go at the top of the draft. Other players are best in certain systems that play to their strengths and hide their weaknesses. Makar would have succeeded anywhere, Toews is much better on the Avs than he was on the Isles.