GDT: 4-Nations Games

[OD99]

The tougher team won the game last night not the more skilled team, where are your fancy stats that measure guts & toughness? McDavid made a great skilled play, but once McAvoy hit him pretty hard, he became a non-factor & no one on Canada came to his defence. The US played like Canada used to play, they would have been better served if they would have dressed Crouse & Wilson to neutralize the Tkachuks.

Nonsense.

McAvoy played great, I will give you that.

In no world is Canada better off with Crouse, but I wouldn't have minded Wilson on the team. He can skate and score and no doubt would have been far more difficult for Brady to handle than Bennett.

Brady has 4 inches and 30lbs on Bennett...I didn't see anything heroic about him choosing that dance partner. If anything Bennett showed the Canadians weren't going to back down or be bullied.

Nobody on either side stood out as having a great game, other than McAvoy.

 

[aragorn]

Nonsense.

McAvoy played great, I will give you that.

In no world is Canada better off with Crouse, but I wouldn't have minded Wilson on the team. He can skate and score and no doubt would have been far more difficult for Brady to handle than Bennett.

Brady has 4 inches and 30lbs on Bennett...I didn't see anything heroic about him choosing that dance partner. If anything Bennett showed the Canadians weren't going to back down or be bullied.

Nobody on either side stood out as having a great game, other than McAvoy.

I thought Canada's 3rd line (The Tampa line) played well, they hit & didn't back down which was a good sign. Wilson on the team would have neutralized the Tkachuks & his hitting can change momentum & games. The start to the game was about sending a message & I think it definitely worked. That's the way Canada used to play.

 

[Xspyrit]

The tougher team won the game last night not the more skilled team, where are your fancy stats that measure guts & toughness? McDavid made a great skilled play, but once McAvoy hit him pretty hard, he became a non-factor & no one on Canada came to his defence. The US played like Canada used to play, they would have been better served if they would have dressed Crouse & Wilson to neutralize the Tkachuks.

What did everyone talk about during the game & after the game, did they talk about McDavid's great rush or was it all about the start of the game. Are you actually saying Canada did not have elite talent on their roster? McDavid is the best player in the NHL, Crosby used to be & was having another good yr, MacKinnon is considered an elite player so is Marner, how many elite players do you need on the team? Hughes did nothing in that game, he disappears when the going gets tough, Eichel didn't do much, Connor didn't do much, Mathews didn't have a shot on net until the 2nd period, he did make a nice defensive play. How did the US have a better team? Because they had the Tkachuks.

First mistake you're making : assuming Canada is the "more skilled team"

You want some fancy stats? (even if you don't I'll post them for the benefit of others)

Shots : 26-23 for Canada
Scoring Chances : 29-24 for Canada
High Danger Scoring Chances : 10-5 for Canada

But there's a difference between Hellebuyck and Binnington that might have been the difference in the game score (again, a one goal game)

There's also a big difference in defense overall talent. Sure Makar was missing but Quinn Hughes too. As for the rest :

Fox, Werenski, McAvoy, Slavin, Faber and Hanifin is better overall than Morrissey, Toews, Doughty, Sanheim, Harley and Parayko by a SIGNIFICANT margin. That is the other big difference.

Canada has the 2 best forwards with McDavid and MacKinnon but USA is not that far behind with Matthews and Eichel. As for the rest of the forward groups, it's very close with a slight advantage to the Americans IMO.

"Guts & toughness" is fun and entertaining and frankly, that's what attracts the casual fan but unless your team is a "push over", it's more a factor exaggerated by the medias to SELL the game...

In the end, speed, skill and smarts is the biggest factors. Then you have goaltending and team defense commitment, coaching , chemistry, so many other things than whoever wins a fight. This is such an archaic way to see the game, it's been outdated for years and years.

Edit : just watched the fights again, actually I'm not even sure what you're talking about. Hagel actually did really well against MT, sure Brady won his fight but Parayko ragdolled Miller. Is that how USA manhandled Canada? lol they were talking about it on TVA and how Canada wasn't going to be bullied. Parayko probably made the team for that reason, guy is huge.

 

[WallyD]

Goaltending was a major difference.

Binnington let in two goals through him that should have been stopped.

Helly is the best goalie in the league right now, so that was major advantage.

I also feel like our stars don’t play well together, and we barely played the bottom six lines at all to our detriment as they were playing well, and we were tiring out our stars.

To me it looked like the US played a solid NHL game by an excellent team, while we had two top line of stars trying to do everything themselves.

We got shut down by the US because the guys who played most of the game don’t play like units, and aren’t really willing to grind out goals like you have to in the playoffs.

Disappointing game.

Best analysis of the game play I have yet seem. Totally agree.! I too was not impressed with Binnington at all on those 2 goals. Bad giveaway by Crosby for sure but you need a goalie to bail you out somethigns. This is very much akin to the issue with the Sens of late, the team's top 6 are just not gelling and cannot seem to play-make or score. There's way too much perimeter play and they're not pushing much of anything toward the net front. I don't get some of the line combos and hate the lack of use of their 3rd & 4th lines. Only ~8 minutes for players like Marchand, really? More than a few of the team personnel make-up decisions are questionable, players on and left off the roster. Team Canada management always has to be too smart by half!

One thing I did observe that bugged the hell out of me... In both games the Canadians came out on fire for 10-15 minutes sticking with the other team and then they seemed to disappear. They were playing off the back foot way too much of the game after that. Why? No idea what caused that, but you aren't going to win many games playing 40+ minutes of even strength penalty kill type hockey, dump and change, endless icings, letting the other team dominate, keep coming back at you. Not a recipe for success.

 

[aragorn]

First mistake you're making : assuming Canada is the "more skilled team"

You want some fancy stats? (even if you don't I'll post them for the benefit of others)

Shots : 26-23 for Canada
Scoring Chances : 29-24 for Canada
High Danger Scoring Chances : 10-5 for Canada

But there's a difference between Hellebuyck and Binnington that might have been the difference in the game score (again, a one goal game)

There's also a big difference in defense overall talent. Sure Makar was missing but Quinn Hughes too. As for the rest :

Fox, Werenski, McAvoy, Slavin, Faber and Hanifin is better overall than Morrissey, Toews, Doughty, Sanheim, Harley and Parayko by a SIGNIFICANT margin. That is the other big difference.

Canada has the 2 best forwards with McDavid and MacKinnon but USA is not that far behind with Matthews and Eichel. As for the rest of the forward groups, it's very close with a slight advantage to the Americans IMO.

"Guts & toughness" is fun and entertaining and frankly, that's what attracts the casual fan but unless your team is a "push over", it's more a factor exaggerated by the medias to SELL the game...

In the end, speed, skill and smarts is the biggest factors. Then you have goaltending and team defense commitment, coaching , chemistry, so many other things than whoever wins a fight. This is such an archaic way to see the game, it's been outdated for years and years.

Mathews & Eichel did nothing in that game last night, neither did Jack Hughes, Hellebuyck made more saves than Bennington. So again you are saying that Crosby, McDavid, MacKinnon & Marner don't have the speed, skill or smarts & toughness is a non factor in the game. There is no fighting in the game anymore, there is no intimidation in the game anymore, I guess the Tkachuks never got the memo.

 

[Cosmix]

First, there has not been any betrayals…just proposed changes.

Even if changes were to come to fruition, it would still be bad form to boo anyone’s national anthem.

You never know, there could be some players with thin skins, and long memories….playing in Canadian markets, and it could influence a decision in the future when contracts are coming to an end

Threats by the leader of another Country against Canada will not be ignored by Canadians nor its politicians who know that appeasement policies will not be viewed as acceptable by Canadians. Booing that other Country's national anthem is minor compared to the threats and ignorant comments being made. Players decisions on where to play are up to them and do not trump national unity and defence of the nation.

 

[LuckyPierre]

Threats by the leader of another Country against Canada will not be ignored by Canadians nor its politicians who know that appeasement policies will not be viewed as acceptable by Canadians. Booing that other Country's national anthem is minor compared to the threats and ignorant comments being made. Players decisions on where to play are up to them and do not trump national unity and defence of the nation.

Boo them at any other time before and after the game, but there is no justification at this time for booing during an anthem. T.A. is right - this will backfire.

 

[Xspyrit]

Mathews & Eichel did nothing in that game last night, neither did Jack Hughes

And? You think it's because Americans LOST more fights than Canadians? There was also Canadian forwards who were ineffective last night. The talent level is so high and the pace is so fast that most players won't have an impact in each game. There is very little time and space on the ice in this tournament and it's not because of toughness.

Hellebuyck made more saves than Bennington.

Yes, part of the explanation I gave. US are much better at goaltending/defense.

So again you are saying that Crosby, McDavid, MacKinnon & Marner don't have the speed, skill or smarts

Where did I say that? The thing is Americans also have PLENTY of it

& toughness is a non factor in the game. There is no fighting in the game anymore, there is no intimidation in the game anymore, I guess the Tkachuks never got the memo.

Did I say that? Seriously, why even bother to go into debates if you're not going to be able to read properly...

I said "it's more a factor exaggerated by the medias" so just that sentence implies that it IS a factor... I was saying there is several other more important factors.

 

[Loach]

LeBrun said it. Hanson Brothers. What a gong show. If it happened in the first game of a playoff series...We talked about it and decided to fight...there would be consequences from the league.

 

[Cosmix]

Boo them at any other time before and after the game, but there is no justification at this time for booing during an anthem. T.A. is right - this will backfire.

Obviously thousands of people disagree with you.

 

[LuckyPierre]

Obviously thousands of people disagree with you.

Yes, that much is true.

It's just one of those things you don't do to another nation. Canadians as a people should have higher standards of conduct regardless of the outside noise.

 

[Big Muddy]

In my mind, Canada hasn’t found chemistry with it lines yet. McDavid & MacKinnon wiz around, but we didn’t see much in the way of good passes to players in good positions that resulted in goals. I thought team USA did a pretty good defending (team D) as well. I thought Slavin was the best defender on the ice last night. That guy is a stud.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

LeBrun said it. Hanson Brothers. What a gong show. If it happened in the first game of a playoff series...We talked about it and decided to fight...there would be consequences from the league.

Why would there be consequences? Fighting is a part of the game, and players are allowed to use it as a way to bring a spark of energy or send a message.

Nobody got jumped either, Matthew asked Hagel and he accepted. Brady challenged Bennett while he was on the bench and he hopped on the ice to accept the challenge. Miller waited for Parayko to get his gloves off before throwing a punch.

 

[Boud]

In my mind, Canada hasn’t found chemistry with it lines yet. McDavid & MacKinnon wiz around, but we didn’t see much in the way of good passes to players in good positions that resulted in goals. I thought team USA did a pretty good defending (team D) as well. I thought Slavin was the best defender on the ice last night. That guy is a stud.

I was at the game yesterday and I couldn’t agree more.

It’s an issue with the line chemistry. I don’t think Mackinnon should be playing with McDavid. They both have the same strenghts. They rush the puck up the ice. McDavid is better so he has the puck and finds the puck more and Mackinnon just doesn’t touch the puck enough to be effective. He should be driving a different line.

Stone was the best player last night aside from McDavid. He was doing what he needed to do which is disrupting plays for the US, defensive support, and overall just bringing a good 200ft play.

These lines are no working. I would put McDavid with Stone and maybe Hagel.

Canada could’ve won that game. It was close and not much was happening on both sides overall. Binnington was fighting the puck too they should’ve started Hill to see what he can give.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I didn't really like the lines for Team Canada. McDavid could use more speed with him. Jarvis and Marchand were underutilized on that 4th line . Both could play a up tempo game with McDavid.. Didn't like the Tampa line even though they were on the right side of tilting the ice .

Over all a good game where a turnover out near the US blueline was the difference.

Tom Wilson should have been on this team over Konecny,
The Tkachuk brothers picked out players a couple of weight classes down. For Matthew that's not unexpected... For Brady maybe he should have gone Parayko
Bennet answered the bell but he gave up a lot of size doing it.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

I don’t get the hype around this tourney. Seems like a lot of propaganda from the big hockey accounts.

Yes it’s better than the all star game.

You're literally the only one still poopooing this tournament. Everyone else is having a great time watching it.

 

[Nova Stutzlia]

Reminder

Early game tomorrow - 1 PM Eastern
(Finland - Canada)

 

[Stylizer1]

Nobody really cares if their anthem gets booed guys. Media should get 5 for instigating.

You're literally the only one still poopooing this tournament. Everyone else is having a great time watching it.

And if Canada loses for the next few years everyone will be poopooing it. A nothing tournament during the season just like the NBA cup.

 

[bicboi64]

Reminder

Early game tomorrow - 1 PM Eastern
(Finland - Canada)

Perfect, let's me enjoy the long weekend while non-hockey loving family asks me why I don't want to attend events

 

[Burrowsaurus]

You're literally the only one still poopooing this tournament. Everyone else is having a great time watching it.

I am not so I turned off the game half way.

And watched like 20 seconds of the other two games. I got the accelerated replay day after.

It’s gimmicky. In a couple years they’ll switch to something else

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Threats by the leader of another Country against Canada will not be ignored by Canadians nor its politicians who know that appeasement policies will not be viewed as acceptable by Canadians. Booing that other Country's national anthem is minor compared to the threats and ignorant comments being made. Players decisions on where to play are up to them and do not trump national unity and defence of the nation.

Too many people are over reacting, imo, and some off them in leadership roles are making threats in return.

IF the proposals become reality, in March, then appropriate reactions would appropriate…..But booing an anthem, at a sporting event is not a line I would cross……

Some people have written books, on negotiation tactics, and if someone took the time to read one, they might gain some insight into what might be happening now…… and imo too many people are reacting in a way that plays into the hands of the one making proposals that may or may not come to fruition……

I think the USA has more money available for their sports programs because they are a richer nation. I think USA college hockey has much better facilities than Canadian Universities, for example.

Canada still has an advantage with the junior hockey teams but I think the USA is and has gained ground.

I would go as far as to say most US High schools have sporting facilities at least on par with Canadian Universities

 

[ottawagm]

Would be nice to see Sanderson get a game against Sweden. US already has top spot even with a loss, so why not?

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I think we have to admit that Canada isn't a lock for gold/silver in international play anymore. We can talk all we want about roster construction or bad bounces and all that....but we've really fallen behind. Even our current crop of superstars are a bit one-dimensional and not the well rounded "elite in all areas" types of players we had 15 years ago.

This is what happens when hockey becomes too much of an economic class game and playing to nepotism and padding HC coffers than improving the sport as a whole.

 

[Nova Stutzlia]

I think we have to admit that Canada isn't a lock for gold/silver in international play anymore. We can talk all we want about roster construction or bad bounces and all that....but we've really fallen behind. Even our current crop of superstars are a bit one-dimensional and not the well rounded "elite in all areas" types of players we had 15 years ago.

This is what happens when hockey becomes too much of an economic class game and playing to nepotism and padding HC coffers than improving the sport as a whole.

When was Canada ever "a lock for gold/silver in international play"?
Perhaps up to and including 1987.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]