4 nations confrontation power rankling

[Rabid Ranger]

The main advantage Canada has is a roster full of players that rise to the occasion. Not sure that will manifest itself in this tournament, but it means a lot in the Olympics.

 

[ORRFForever]

I did this prior to the eventually cancelled 2022 tournament, and now that the rosters are known I think it’s a worthwhile exercise

Canada

Forwards 10/10 Defense 9/10 Goaltending 5/10

24/30

Strengths: a top 6 that will be amongst the best I can ever remember seeing, and a plethora of selke level forwards that are possession and positional monsters. The best defenseman in the world trending toward a top 10 defenseman of all time in his prime able to play 30 minutes a night.

Weaknesses: Goaltending, goaltending, goaltending. Don’t have a defined number 1 like all the other teams and none of the 3 selected has been very consistent this year. Perhaps a small nitpick, but the Defense lean slightly too offensive versus the balance that had been present in past teams.

X-factor: this team is filled to the brim with winners, both at club and international level, so the moment seemingly will not be too bright for anyone. They have nearly double the cup victories on this roster when compared to the next closest team.

Finland

Forwards 8/10 Defense 4/10 Goaltending: 8/10

20/30

Strengths: Barkov into Aho into Hintz into Lundell might be the second best all around group of centremen in the tournament. Lots of defensively sound forwards that play in a very structured manner. Saros and Luukkonen are very good options in net that are probably the second best 1-2 in the tournament.

Weaknesses: Miro Heiskanen might never got off the ice with the rest of this defensive core, it’s extremely thin after Heiskanen and Lindell. The options on wing beyond Rantanen are not ideal.

X-factor: No country has more a defined and clear philosophy than Finland when it comes to hockey. Sit 5 guys across the neutral zone, collapse all 5 players into the slot in the defensive zone, and take advantage of mistakes. I don’t think it’s Jalonen coaching this year, but his teams are the king of this.

Sweden

Forwards 7/10 Defense 8/10 goaltending 8/10

23/30

Strengths: This is a very well rounded team. It has very respectable depth in all positions and has no players that could be deemed a liability against top competition.

Weaknesses: with the exception of Nylander and Bratt, could it be said that any of the expected top players are having exceptional seasons? It’s been a mixed bag for Ullmark in Ottawa, Zibanejad is under fire in New York and Pettersson has been inconsistent.

X-factor: Eriksson Ek looks like a Selke favourite this year and will be key for this team playing in matchups against the McDavid and Matthews-type players

USA

Forwards 9/10, Defense 9/10, Goaltending 9/10

27/30

Strengths: Depth at every position. Very well rounded mix of goal scoring, piss and vinegar, and speed in the top 9.

Weaknesses: A lot of the top players have gone missing on the big occasion. Particular players, especially on the back end, have been pushed out playoff series by physicality.

X-Factor: one of the advantages of the NTDP model is that a lot of these players have familiarity with each other and will not be strangers as to how the others play. Quick chemistry is very important in a tournament like this where those no run up nor pre-tournament games

Good review. My only changes....

Canada's forwards are an 11 out of 10 - McDavid and MacKinnon, in their prime, with Sid is better than a 10.

Canada's goaltending is better than a 5.

You should have given a measurement to the X-Factor. If so, the X-Factor for Canada is a 10/10 with the "winners".

It's actually the U.S tournaments to lose, they are all set up from top to bottom and all their players are in their prime.

The NDTP generation

I love you, brother. I expected nothing less.

 

[jj cale]

I think you incredibly overrate the finish centers, in the last three playoffs combined Barkov has scored 45 points in 55 games. Zibanejad has 44 points in 43 games.. yes you heard that right. Im. not saying that Barkov is worse than Z but finnish posters image of their players doesn't reflect reality. Same goes for the rest of the finnish centers.

going back to last season the Finnish centers you named scored 354 pts going back to last season, the top 4 Swedish centers (Pettersson, Z, Eriksson Ek, Karlsson) scored 351 pts. And Eriksson and Karlsson are incredibly gifted defensive players to boot. I think its actually pretty even.

Disagree, I'd say Finlands centre group is about as good or close to as good as anyone's in this tournament, it's definitely the top strength of the team.

I love you, brother. I expected nothing less.

It's the gods honest truth, check the rosters of all the teams.

 

[ORRFForever]

Disagree, I'd say Finlands centre group is about as good or close to as good as anyone's in this tournament, it's definitely the top strength of the team.


It's the gods honest truth, check the rosters of all the teams.

I did. I think our team is better.

Oh well, what I think matters NOT one bit.

 

[jj cale]

I did. I think our team is better.

I'm glad someone does

 

[ORRFForever]

I'm glad someone does

Well, the betting market does...

2025 4 Nations Face-Off Odds: Canada Favorite As Official Rosters Announced

Get the latest 4 Nations Face-Off odds for the inaugural NHL International Tournament, scheduled for February 12-20, 2025.

www.covers.com

 

[jj cale]

Well, the betting market does...

2025 4 Nations Face-Off Odds: Canada Favorite As Official Rosters Announced

Get the latest 4 Nations Face-Off odds for the inaugural NHL International Tournament, scheduled for February 12-20, 2025.

www.covers.com

They are giving them the edge based on pedigree.......risky way for them to travel.

If you objectively look at the rosters though, the U.S team is the best on paper, doesn't mean they are going to win but they have the best roster.

I don't see how there is any denying that.

 

[Lambo]

Sweden and Finland Stats

Points

Bratt - Granlund - Rantanen
Raymond - Aho - Nylander
Kempe - Barkov - Pettersson
Eklund - Lundell - Zetterlund
Zibanejad

Points per game

Bratt - Barkov - Rantanen
Raymond - Granlund - Nylander
Laine - Aho - Pettersson
Eklund - Lundell - Kempe
Zibanejad

Better PPG? F.e. Barkov has a lot fewer games but his PPG beat all Swedes.

 

[ORRFForever]

They are giving them the edge based on pedigree.......risky way for them to travel.

If you objectively look at the rosters though, the U.S team is the best on paper, doesn't mean they are going to win but they have the best roster.

I don't see how there is any denying that.

We have the 3 best players in the world (plus Sid) and I love our roster - it's basically what I wanted / picked before the tournament.

We'll see how things play out. Win or lose, life is a blessing and life will go on.

 

[Ciao]

The main advantage Canada has is a roster full of players that rise to the occasion. Not sure that will manifest itself in this tournament, but it means a lot in the Olympics.

If Canada wins, I would consider that an upset.

I think the US has passed us in player development by now. I don't know when that was, but it's happened already.

Any team could win this tourney, but I see the US as the favourite.

 

[Mathieukferland]

I think the US has passed us in player development by now. I don't know when that was, but it's happened already.

Passed? No. Two Canadian teams just played each other in the final of the WHC17, Canada won the u18 with a B team, and the CHL prospects destroyed the NTDP, and even if you add Hagens and Hensler I don’t think it changes the result.


But the timing has become slightly awkward, Granted Canada has the three best players in the world at the peak of their powers, but the elite depth that was available off the back of the WJC 5 peat is mostly gone, and the strong players from the 2002 birth year onwards have, for the most part, not done quite yet enough to get to this level.


If we’re talking about goaltenders then you might have a point, but I still believe the best outskaters in the world are produced in the CHL and Canada and that looks to be the case for the foreseeable future

 

[MMANumminen]

Finland has 9 stanley cup winners. We will mop the floor with swedish sissies and then kill both muricans with solid axe hit to the forehead

 

[Czechboy]

I agree mostly.

2 quibbles

1. What does the nation that cut Tage Thompson have to do to get a 10 for their forwards?

2. agree about X factor - no nations has scored more last second goals and grabbed victory from defeat like Canada. They've won the last 3 best on bests? A lot of cups and gold medals on that roster (including 2 of the 3 goalies).

I am still going with Finland to f*** it all up and win this thing. They will be a goddam nightmare to break through in a elimination game IMO.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

It’s going to be USA or Canada. Finland won’t be competitive. Their defense is very weak. Very few who can skate or move the puck with the top defensemen in this tournament. I think Sweden isn’t as hopeless, but I would not feel good about their center depth. It’s an issue for them.

Canada has the most stars with the obvious goaltending weakness and then USA is the team with less stars but no weak area other than its inexperienced and hasn’t won anywhere near as much as the other countries.

 

[IdleTraveller]

I am still going with Finland to f*** it all up and win this thing. They will be a goddam nightmare to break through in a elimination game IMO.

Hey - I love that prediction ;-). I know Finland are the underdogs here on paper but it's only four games, and any team can beat another team in any one game. Hockey is a team sport, and it's not only about the talent on the ice, but about how well they can play together. Plus Finland does have a history of over-achieving in international tournaments...

So I'm basically trying to convince myself that we have a chance. Maybe. Perhaps. Pretty please, hockey Gods?

 

[jj cale]

Finland has 9 stanley cup winners. We will mop the floor with swedish sissies and then kill both muricans with solid axe hit to the forehead

There's nothing like a good old fashioned donnybrook between Finnish and Swedish fans here.

 

[JackSlater]

I like the US roster best best, then Canada, then Sweden, then Finland. I prefer Canada's skaters to USA's skaters but Hellebucyk is way better than any goaltender Canada has. I only somewhat prefer Canada's skaters, mainly as it seems like a clearly functional team with players who have succeeded at the highest levels whereas I prefer the US depth on defence but have some question marks about some players. But, Canada's goaltending stinks, even if you only need one to perform, so that is a significant edge to USA. Sweden is the clear third in terms of talent, so Finland is fourth.

I think this thing is decently wide open and no team winning should be a surprise. I'm hoping for some good entertainment and valuable preparation before the Olympics. I also hope that by 2028 they are going to do a World Cup, sans gimmicks, and drop the Ryder Cup fantasy for this event.

 

[illone84]

On paper means jack shit. Can vs Fin final and everyone is dumbstruck after a team with 4/10 rated defense makes it there. Marner scores the OT winner. Canada wins as usual.

 

[ORRFForever]

If Canada wins, I would consider that an upset.

I think the US has passed us in player development by now. I don't know when that was, but it's happened already.

Any team could win this tourney, but I see the US as the favourite.

 

[Czechboy]

Hey - I love that prediction ;-). I know Finland are the underdogs here on paper but it's only four games, and any team can beat another team in any one game. Hockey is a team sport, and it's not only about the talent on the ice, but about how well they can play together. Plus Finland does have a history of over-achieving in international tournaments...

So I'm basically trying to convince myself that we have a chance. Maybe. Perhaps. Pretty please, hockey Gods?

If Czechs can win in Nagano.. Finn's can win here.

Same concept.. hot goalie, team work and win 2-1 games. Be dogged and total pains in the ass. Finn's have that in spades. The fact everyone has them 4th is an advantage.

Also, 2 Finn X factors.

1. those 5 best on best Olympics, Finns had the most medals.
2. they won some 'Skoda's' without a single NHLer

A lot of Finn's have golds and cups too.

Get to that elimination game.. start Saros. Play the shit out Heiskenan. Roll the forward lines. Tell Barkov to drive the top line crazy. Win 2-1 or 1-0 in shootouts.

It's not crazy to think any of that could happen. A team doesn't need 10 x 100 point scorers. A team doesn't need 3 starting goalies. A team doesn't need 7 D that can play 24+ a night. There is one puck and 60 minutes. Some elite players don't do well in 3rd lines and 3rd pairs.

I've wanted to see this Finn generation together for awhile now!

 

[jj cale]

If Czechs can win in Nagano.. Finn's can win here.

Same concept.. hot goalie, team work and win 2-1 games. Be dogged and total pains in the ass. Finn's have that in spades. The fact everyone has them 4th is an advantage.

Also, 2 Finn X factors.

1. those 5 best on best Olympics, Finns had the most medals.
2. they won some 'Skoda's' without a single NHLer

A lot of Finn's have golds and cups too.

Get to that elimination game.. start Saros. Play the shit out Heiskenan. Roll the forward lines. Tell Barkov to drive the top line crazy. Win 2-1 or 1-0 in shootouts.

It's not crazy to think any of that could happen. A team doesn't need 10 x 100 point scorers. A team doesn't need 3 starting goalies. A team doesn't need 7 D that can play 24+ a night. There is one puck and 60 minutes. Some elite players don't do well in 3rd lines and 3rd pairs.

I've wanted to see this Finn generation together for awhile now!

Keep this up and by the end of the night i'll be with you in picking them to win.

It's all so gosh darn convincing.

 

[kcunac]

It should be obvious to anyone that any team can win.

On paper, I have to give a slight edge to the US.

 

[ORRFForever]

If I've learned nothing from HFB, I've learned that people see what they want to see. And that pretty well applies to everything in life.

**

I've tried to feign interest in February's tournament but I just can't. I'm not even sure the teams will play hard. Perhaps we will get some entertaining hockey but I'd much prefer the Olympics in 2026 - where it isn't just 4 teams and anything can happen.

It’s going to be USA or Canada. Finland won’t be competitive. Their defense is very weak. Very few who can skate or move the puck with the top defensemen in this tournament. I think Sweden isn’t as hopeless, but I would not feel good about their center depth. It’s an issue for them.

Canada has the most stars with the obvious goaltending weakness and then USA is the team with less stars but no weak area other than its inexperienced and hasn’t won anywhere near as much as the other countries.

That sums it up nicely.

 

[Statsy]

I'm not even sure the teams will play hard.

Is that what people think? Do they think this is the same as an all-star game? They are playing for their countries, and playing against their biggest rivals. When Canada and the US meet... there will be blood. Word is Finland and Sweden have a thing going too.

I think despite some fans' disinterest, that these teams are going to go hard in this event and I for one am stoked for it!

 

[New User Name]

If we (Canada) get average goal tending, I think we have a slight edge.

The US will be out for blood as they haven't won a best on best since that traitor Brett Hull won the US the Canada Cup in 1996. f*** renaming it the world cup.

PS I kid about Brett, stupid Dave King didn't pick him for Team Canada in 1986.
He then is offered a place on Team US and the rest is history.