4 nations confrontation power rankling

[Mathieukferland]

I did this prior to the eventually cancelled 2022 tournament, and now that the rosters are known I think it’s a worthwhile exercise

Canada

Forwards 10/10 Defense 9/10 Goaltending 5/10

24/30

Strengths: a top 6 that will be amongst the best I can ever remember seeing, and a plethora of selke level forwards that are possession and positional monsters. The best defenseman in the world trending toward a top 10 defenseman of all time in his prime able to play 30 minutes a night.

Weaknesses: Goaltending, goaltending, goaltending. Don’t have a defined number 1 like all the other teams and none of the 3 selected has been very consistent this year. Perhaps a small nitpick, but the Defense lean slightly too offensive versus the balance that had been present in past teams.

X-factor: this team is filled to the brim with winners, both at club and international level, so the moment seemingly will not be too bright for anyone. They have nearly double the cup victories on this roster when compared to the next closest team.

Finland

Forwards 8/10 Defense 4/10 Goaltending: 8/10

20/30

Strengths: Barkov into Aho into Hintz into Lundell might be the second best all around group of centremen in the tournament. Lots of defensively sound forwards that play in a very structured manner. Saros and Luukkonen are very good options in net that are probably the second best 1-2 in the tournament.

Weaknesses: Miro Heiskanen might never got off the ice with the rest of this defensive core, it’s extremely thin after Heiskanen and Lindell. The options on wing beyond Rantanen are not ideal.

X-factor: No country has more a defined and clear philosophy than Finland when it comes to hockey. Sit 5 guys across the neutral zone, collapse all 5 players into the slot in the defensive zone, and take advantage of mistakes. I don’t think it’s Jalonen coaching this year, but his teams are the king of this.

Sweden

Forwards 7/10 Defense 8/10 goaltending 8/10

23/30

Strengths: This is a very well rounded team. It has very respectable depth in all positions and has no players that could be deemed a liability against top competition.

Weaknesses: with the exception of Nylander and Bratt, could it be said that any of the expected top players are having exceptional seasons? It’s been a mixed bag for Ullmark in Ottawa, Zibanejad is under fire in New York and Pettersson has been inconsistent.

X-factor: Eriksson Ek looks like a Selke favourite this year and will be key for this team playing in matchups against the McDavid and Matthews-type players

USA

Forwards 9/10, Defense 9/10, Goaltending 9/10

27/30

Strengths: Depth at every position. Very well rounded mix of goal scoring, piss and vinegar, and speed in the top 9.

Weaknesses: A lot of the top players have gone missing on the big occasion. Particular players, especially on the back end, have been pushed out playoff series by physicality.

X-Factor: one of the advantages of the NTDP model is that a lot of these players have familiarity with each other and will not be strangers as to how the others play. Quick chemistry is very important in a tournament like this where those no run up nor pre-tournament games

Click to read more...

 

[centipede2233]

Yeah I have this similar.

 

[jj cale]

Pretty much the same, I would drop Canada's defense down from a 9 to an 8 and might pump up Sweden's defense from an 8 to a 9 and the U.S forwards to a 10 also.

 

[karhukissa]

Very well done! Basically this tournament is Canada's to lose, USA will be deadly and SWE/FIN will cause as much trouble as they can.

Sweden relies on that extremely strong defense, whilst Finland has that top power in forwards. If goalies are hot, Finnish PP can carry that team to victory against any opponent.

 

[centipede2233]

I’d bump canadas forwards to a 8.5. Crosby and Marchand are not in their prime, marner is anti clutch, Jarvis, Cirelli, Bennett and Konecny are question marks. Stone also not in prime.

 

[Stalhandske]

Forwards/Defencemen/Goalies

USA 10-9-9
Canada 10-9-6
Sweden 8-9-8
Finland 7-4-7

Finlands forwards are outscored by Sweden as a group and they have more defensive studs to boot(Eriksson Ek, Lindholm, William Karlsson). Don't see how they are better on paper.

 

[Erikfromfin]

Forwards/Defencemen/Goalies

USA 10-9-9
Canada 10-9-6
Sweden 8-9-8
Finland 7-4-7

Finlands forwards are outscored by Sweden as a group and they have more defensive studs to boot(Eriksson Ek, Lindholm, William Karlsson). Don't see how they are better on paper.

Sweden 1 center Zibanejad would be 4 center on Finland. Erik Karlsson would not make Finland defence.

 

[jj cale]

Very well done! Basically this tournament is Canada's to lose, USA will be deadly and SWE/FIN will cause as much trouble as they can.

Sweden relies on that extremely strong defense, whilst Finland has that top power in forwards. If goalies are hot, Finnish PP can carry that team to victory against any opponent.

It's actually the U.S tournaments to lose, they are all set up from top to bottom and all their players are in their prime.

The NDTP generation

 

[Stalhandske]

Sweden 1 center Zibanejad would be 4 center on Finland. Erik Karlsson would not make Finland defence.

Erik Karlsson is gonna be a PP specialist, it will be fine. He would be your nr2 if he played on Finland .

Among forwards.
Current scoring top 6 from both countries.
Finland 149 pts, Sweden 154 pts and Sweden didn't even bring Eklund which is in the top 6.

Bottom 6 Sweden destroys Finland.

I see no objective way of putting Finland above Sweden on forwards except bias.

 

[kcunac]

I think the USA have the best goalie and defence. Those would be 10/10 for me. Canada forwards get 10/10 just because of McDavid. But for me the gap between the USA D and G vs others is bigger than the gap between Canada’s f and the others.

 

[Erikfromfin]

Erik Karlsson is gonna be a PP specialist, it will be fine. He would be your nr2 if he played on Finland .

Among forwards.
Current scoring top 6 from both countries.
Finland 149 pts, Sweden 154 pts and Sweden didn't even bring Eklund which is in the top 6.

Bottom 6 Sweden destroys Finland.

I see no objective way of putting Finland above Sweden on forwards except bias.

Heiskanen would be Sweden top pair with Forsling.

Lindell and Mikkola are just as good as Brodin and Ekholm or dont you watch Dallas and Florida?

No thanks to Erik Karlsson we actually have defenders that can defend.

 

[Stalhandske]

Heiskanen would be Sweden top pair with Forsling.

Lindell and Mikkola are just as good as Brodin and Ekholm or dont you watch Dallas and Florida?

No thanks to Erik Karlsson we actually have defenders that can defend.

Not even close, not a single Finnish defensemen would make Swedens defense except Heiskanen.

 

[karhukissa]

Among forwards.
Current scoring top 6 from both countries.
Finland 149 pts, Sweden 154 pts and Sweden didn't even bring Eklund which is in the top 6.

Bottom 6 Sweden destroys Finland.

I see no objective way of putting Finland above Sweden on forwards except bias.

It's a short tournament, hockey is a game with lot of penalties. Big guys play big minutes.

Sweden doesn't have any game changing forwards. Finland has two top 10 forwards in the world. Then you have Aho who'd be number one center in Swedish team. Also center is the most important position, Finland destroys Sweden in that aspect. We can talk about 4th line, but as far as i'm concerned, they don't even have to score.

Think about Russia. They have Kaprizov, Kuch and Panarin. The rest is more or less mediocre, no centers. Would you put Sweden on par with Russia?

 

[llwyd]

Well, doesn't look too good on paper - then again when do we look good on paper? Will be interesting to see!

 

[Stalhandske]

It's a short tournament, hockey is a game with lot of penalties. Big guys play big minutes.

Sweden doesn't have any game changing forwards. Finland has two top 10 forwards in the world. Then you have Aho who'd be number one center in Swedish team. Also center is the most important position, Finland destroys Sweden in that aspect. We can talk about 4th line, but as far as i'm concerned, they don't even have to score.

Think about Russia. They have Kaprizov, Kuch and Panarin. The rest is more or less mediocre, no centers. Would you put Sweden on par with Russia?

Finland doesn't destroy Sweden anywhere c'mon. Sweden top center's may had a rough start to the season but sweden's top 6 still outproduces finlands top 6.
William Nylander is definitely a game breaking forward, also former world championship MVP.
Pettersson, Zibanejad have proven in the past they can be game breaking , who knows what form they will be in the tournament.
You're trying to reduce who has the best forward group to who has the best forward. That's bit of a weak sauce argument and not very convincing.

 

[llwyd]

Think about Russia.

I totally understand your point and largely agree with it. Just to say that no, I don't think about Russia in hockey or in any sport. A weird black hole actually...

 

[Eye of Ra]

Sweden is the weakest easily. Finland is alot better. We dont have the superstars we once had such as Sedins, Näslund, Zetterberg, Forsberg, Bäckström, Sundin. In fact Czechs, Germany, Switzerland should have Swedens spot. Compare Swedens roster with what Czechs, Germans and Swiss have. They have better players.

Sweden 1 center Zibanejad would be 4 center on Finland. Erik Karlsson would not make Finland defence.

Only Hedman and Dahlin would make Finlands D.

Not even close, not a single Finnish defensemen would make Swedens defense except Heiskanen.

The same Swedish d who got pumped by Czech European Leauge players in wc semifinal? Alrighty.

 

[Stalhandske]

Sweden is the weakest easily. Finland is alot better. We dont have the superstars we once had such as Sedins, Näslund, Zetterberg, Forsberg, Bäckström, Sundin. In fact Czechs, Germany, Switzerland should have Swedens spot. Compare Swedens roster with what Czechs, Germans and Swiss have. They have better players.


Only Hedman and Dahlin would make Finlands D.

Stop with your lame pretend Sweden is bad schtick, it's just embarrassing.

 

[Erikfromfin]

Sweden and Finland Stats

Points

Bratt - Granlund - Rantanen
Raymond - Aho - Nylander
Kempe - Barkov - Pettersson
Eklund - Lundell - Zetterlund
Zibanejad

Points per game

Bratt - Barkov - Rantanen
Raymond - Granlund - Nylander
Laine - Aho - Pettersson
Eklund - Lundell - Kempe
Zibanejad

 

[karhukissa]

Finland doesn't destroy Sweden anywhere c'mon. Sweden top center's may had a rough start to the season but sweden's top 6 still outproduces finlands top 6.
William Nylander is definitely a game breaking forward, also former world championship MVP.
Pettersson, Zibanejad have proven in the past they can be game breaking , who knows what form they will be in the tournament.
You're trying to reduce who has the best forward group to who has the best forward. That's bit of a weak sauce argument and not very convincing.

So you are saying that Barkov-Aho-Hintz-Lundell doesn't destroy Swedish center core? Oki.

Best forward isn't even a discussion, we are talking about 3 clearly best individual forwards are in Finnish team. Just like Kaprizov-Panarin-Kuch would be against Sweden. That's the game breaking edge. Or why do you think individual players are carrying their teams? Sweden doesn't have carry potential, Nylander might be WC MVP but no team in this universe would build around him.

Finnish best forwards are so much better than Swedish ones, which gives the all around edge to Finland.

 

[Statsy]

Pettersson, Zibanejad have proven in the past they can be game breaking , who knows what form they will be in the tournament.

Pettersson had been in a prolonged slump (all the way to last year) and just didn't look like the same guy. The slump is officially in the past and he is now red hot, putting up multi-point games more often than not. More importantly, he just looks like his old dynamic self. Perhaps that will change a couple months from now when the tournament comes around, but any argument about his slow start is dead.

 

[Stalhandske]

So you are saying that Barkov-Aho-Hintz-Lundell doesn't destroy Swedish center core? Oki.

Best forward isn't even a discussion, we are talking about 3 clearly best individual forwards are in Finnish team. Just like Kaprizov-Panarin-Kuch would be against Sweden. That's the game breaking edge. Or why do you think individual players are carrying their teams? Sweden doesn't have carry potential, Nylander might be WC MVP but no team in this universe would build around him.

Finnish best forwards are so much better than Swedish ones, which gives the all around edge to Finland.

I think you incredibly overrate the finish centers, in the last three playoffs combined Barkov has scored 45 points in 55 games. Zibanejad has 44 points in 43 games.. yes you heard that right. Im. not saying that Barkov is worse than Z but finnish posters image of their players doesn't reflect reality. Same goes for the rest of the finnish centers.

going back to last season the Finnish centers you named scored 354 pts going back to last season, the top 4 Swedish centers (Pettersson, Z, Eriksson Ek, Karlsson) scored 351 pts. And Eriksson and Karlsson are incredibly gifted defensive players to boot. I think its actually pretty even.

 

[BHD]

I’m torn on Canada. I think they leaned too much into grit rather than goals. To me, the U.S. is the most dangerous team.

 

[Eye of Ra]

I’m torn on Canada. I think they leaned too much into grit rather than goals. To me, the U.S. is the most dangerous team.

So did the Americans with picks like Nelson.

 

[karhukissa]

I think you incredibly overrate the finish centers, in the last three playoffs combined Barkov has scored 45 points in 55 games. Zibanejad has 44 points in 43 games.. yes you heard that right. Im. not saying that Barkov is worse than Z but finnish posters image of their players doesn't reflect reality. Same goes for the rest of the finnish centers.

going back to last season the Finnish centers you named scored 354 pts going back to last season, the top 4 Swedish centers (Pettersson, Z, Eriksson Ek, Karlsson) scored 351 pts. And Eriksson and Karlsson are incredibly gifted defensive players to boot. I think its actually pretty even.

You keep talking about fiNish this and that. Maybe see OP and how he made rankings, or check any rating here on hfboards regarding centers and you see what's the reality.

Zibanejad isn't top 20 center in the league and Barkov is objectively top 5. That's the difference. You can look at the stats autistically, but you should actually watch the games. Nylander scored two more points than Kaprizov last season, is Nylander better player? Nobody thinks that, and the difference is lot bigger than 2 points what was their difference in points.

So if looking obectively, you are the one that's overrating Swedish centers.