Post-Game Talk: 4/1: AV returns to Vancouver (McDonagh injury "not serious")

[Whiplash27]

Honestly, players need to create that respect for themselves. No one messed with Messier because they knew if they did, they'd get an elbow to the face. I can't see a player being afraid of a fight in the NHL. If anything, you can just turtle like a coward and that's it. There's only so much players can do to you without going way overboard. If people fear the player, they won't mess with them. Star players typically don't do much to invoke that fear.

 

[Pizza]

All things being equal I'd prefer guys that can take care of business. It's when people want to significantly weaken our roster by putting in a guy that can't play in the NHL level yet, just so that he can "deter" dirty hits is when I have a problem. Do you think Simmonds would rather get punched but have our biggest weapon out in a playoff round against them or play it clean and have a much better chance of losing in the 1st round of the playoffs. These are hockey players and Simmonds and Burrows aren't guys that are afraid to get punched. I'm sure Simmonds will care in 30 years that he got punched if he wins a cup in part because McDonagh was injured.

I don't think anyone who thinks the game clearly wants roster players that can't play the game well or would cause the team to lose games from sheer incompetence. It's an absolute necessity given the high level of play in the league now to have a roster that balances skill, size, scoring, toughness and speed.

I'll repeat that.

You can't win with GOONS.

Players who are not goons but handle the physical intimidation side of the game and can dole out some retribution are playing in the NHL. They give their teams a significant edge. Significant. Anyone who does not see the value, has their head in the sand.

Unfortunately, NONE of them play for the Rangers. And very few EVER have.

Make no mistake, having skilled players that can also play rough and mean likely will not prevent every cheap shot play. That's not the point. The point is the Rangers have no response. ZERO at this time.

No one is physically intimidated by the New York Rangers. What happened last night is just very common in a tough playoff series.

Does that mean that this team can't win a cup as currently composed. I would simply say it makes it tougher, much tougher to accomplish. We'll see that writ plane soon enough.

 

[Bardof425*]

Hahaha. Wait, sarcasm right? No?

I need to stop reading these boards other than during live games.

Obviously the whole son thing is hyperbole but I am very unhappy with Danny's reaction to the hit. He should have reacted emotionally having no interest in his own safety or whether he would get suspended for starting a fight in the last five minutes and pounded Burrows. The sight of McD getting jumped like that should have set him off and it didn't. I wouldn't want him as my captain on any team I play on.

 

[Raspewtin]

Someone said that Bieksa came in after the Burrows hit but hid behind refs when Girardi was there? I can't see that being the case beut does anyone have a clip?

It wouldn't surprise me, Bieksa is the biggest spot-picking tool in the NHL. Can't ****ing stand him.

 

[RGY]

Stepan has been our points leader for the majority of the year, or at least in the top 3, but he has struggled to be consistently effective on a nightly basis. I love steps. I think he has so much ahead of him in his career. I really think this past week he has been finding his groove. I hope he rides it into the playoffs.

 

[ponzu4u]

Burrows ran wild during that Van-Bos Stanley Cup, against a Boston team featuring Shawn Thornton, Lucic, and Chara, and pretty much in-arguably one of top to bottom "toughest" teams in the league. But yes, let's all bemoan the fact we don't have a goon on our roster who surely would have made Burrows change the style of game he's been playing (effectively) his entire career.

And for those attacking Girardi, did anyone else notice I think Hansen or Weber, down and in pain on all fours on the ice late in the second or start of the third period? It happened right after the Van player took a run at McD. Within moments of the run, G had come across, and just crushed the guy into the boards. No penalty, but that's exactly the response I like to see, and it's something I feel Girardi has actually started doing a good amount this season.

 

[Wolfy*]

Here's our solution

In fact he was the only Ranger who jumped Burrows after that hit.

Too bad you lack some size Zucc, or you could definitely be our policeman.

 

[pld459666]

Minimally talented?

We have like 7 Olympic players on the team... Top 5 most in the league.

Nash, MSL, McD, Step, Hank, Hags, Zucc.

Richards was on it a few years ago, I believe. Girardi and Staal are no slouches either.

And we have good depth players too in Kreider, Brassard, Poo, and our entire 4th line.

Yes, minimally talented.

If we were VERY talented, we wouldn't have had to fight and claw for 5th in the conference.

We would be pushing Pitt for 1st in the division.

As it is, a bad 5 game stretch puts us in a wild card spot.

So yes, minimally talented.

 

[broadwayblue]

Yes, minimally talented.

If we were VERY talented, we wouldn't have had to fignt and claw for 5th in the conference.

We would be pushing Pitt for 1st.

As it is, a bad 5 game stretch puts us in a wild card spot.

So yes, minimally talented.

That's a bit of a reach. We're just outside the top 10 teams in the league...if that makes us minimally talented what would you call the 17th ranked team? How about the 22nd?

 

[pld459666]

Minimally talented is a huge stretch. But I've seen posts about how people would rather lose with pride. It goes beyond wins and losses is all I'm saying.

I saw that post as well and while I can appreciate where he is coming from and most here know that I like and prefer teams that can go, even I'm not that extreme.

I look at last night, even in the 80's, that NHL players have, or used to have, long memories and we will see Burrows against next season.

At this point in the season, while I would like to see a better response to the hit, I don't think going out of your way on the next shift is the best way to address the issue.

There's a time and place for everything.

Unfortunately (not just the Rangers) teams do not have the memories that they used to. A guy like Burrows would have a target on his sweater the following season, but the NHL seems to have legislated that aspect of retaliation out of the game.

Unfortunate because it's the dirty hits that hurt guys, not the guys that defend their teammates.

 

[ponzu4u]

And for the record, I have a hard time imagining how it could be possible for a player of Rick Nash's caliber to be so utterly invisible for at least, the first half of that game. I truly couldn't tell if he even played in the first period. When he's good it's so fun to watch, but when he's not engaged, it's truly maddening.

Overall, it was another game wherein Hank made some real good saves early, and really gave the team the opportunity to win the game. Was great to see Marty finally get the goal, and really the goal that decided the game, as in my opinion at that point Vancouver was really controlling the game and making a serious push to tie it up.

Also, in yet another game, our fourth line was pretty much the only effective line for much of the first period, and much of the game, though I thought Zucc's line picked it up after the first and started looking good.

I think some of Diaz's defensive "shortcomings" are starting to be exposed more recently, as I have to say he's looked a little shaky in at least the last two games. Offensively the contribution is great, but defensively, particularly physically, he looks to me like he's getting pushed around by big forwards just as much as J Moore does.

And honestly, what is going on with Straalman? I've loved the guy over the last few season, but for whatever reason he just does not look like the same player to me post-Olympics that he has in the past as a Ranger. He's got to be playing injured, right?

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

I saw that post as well and while I can appreciate where he is coming from and most here know that I like and prefer teams that can go, even I'm not that extreme.

I look at last night, even in the 80's, that NHL players have, or used to have, long memories and we will see Burrows against next season.

At this point in the season, while I would like to see a better response to the hit, I don't think going out of your way on the next shift is the best way to address the issue.

There's a time and place for everything.

Unfortunately (not just the Rangers) teams do not have the memories that they used to. A guy like Burrows would have a target on his sweater the following season, but the NHL seems to have legislated that aspect of retaliation out of the game.

Unfortunate because it's the dirty hits that hurt guys, not the guys that defend their teammates.

Dallas Eakins is doing a bad job in Edmonton, but his interview where he outlined what he wants out of his tougher players and talked about how Bertuzzi-Moore changed the "retribution" game forever was really, really good.

ed: http://www.coppernblue.com/2014/1/23/5337080/dallas-eakins-mark-spector-locker-room-stupid-question

 

[pld459666]

That's a bit of a reach. We're just outside the top 10 teams in the league...if that makes us minimally talented what would you call the 17th ranked team? How about the 22nd?

I don't think it's a reach at all.

I also don't look at this team through Rangers colored glasses.

Even with Kreider healthy, I still see the need for a top 6 LW'er with size and preferrably a bit of snarl.

Until Stepan can step up when the PO's roll around, I'm not convinced he has the testicular fortitude to fight through the tighter checking and more physical style the PO's provide.

Same goes for Nash and Richards.

All three players production fall off quite a bit when things get tougher nightly.

The really talented fight through that. The Elite show minimal reduction in production, the minimally talented do not see a drop off the likes of the three guys mentioned above.

Maybe this year they prove me wrong. I truly hope they do. But what I have seen from these guys? It's not promising

 

[BroadwayHustle]

No structural damage to McDonagh's left shoulder.

Larry Brooks ‏@NYP_Brooksie 1m
Latest on McDonagh: No structural damage to left shoulder, accompanying club to Denver. http://NYPost.com/sports http://nyp.st/1pM01n7
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[TheDave1022]

Still likely to be out some time though

 

[BroadwayHustle]

Still likely to be out some time though

Probably until the playoffs, but you have to hope that the team can still finish out the rest of the season with Staal moving onto the first pair. Staal/Girardi will have to play over 25 minutes a game now with having Stralman, Klein, Moore, Diaz as the bottom 4.

 

[RangerBoy]

Out indefintely. From: @NYP_Brooksie
Sent: Apr 2, 2014 1:02p

Latest on McDonagh: No structural damage to left shoulder, accompanying club to Denver. http://t.co/A0S86XwtYC http://t.co/UYC4rvCCd6

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On Twitter: http://twitter.com/NYP_Brooksie/status/451404209372413952

 

[pld459666]

Dallas Eakins is doing a bad job in Edmonton, but his interview where he outlined what he wants out of his tougher players and talked about how Bertuzzi-Moore changed the "retribution" game forever was really, really good.

ed: http://www.coppernblue.com/2014/1/23/5337080/dallas-eakins-mark-spector-locker-room-stupid-question

Here's the problem I have with that incident.

Moore did what he did to Naslund. It was dirty and they talked about retribution on Moore before the next time they played.

Next game starts and Moore is challenged. He accepts the challenge. That's the end of it.

Bertuzzi wanted to be the guy, then HE should have challenged Moore earlier in the game. You don't sucker punch a guy from behind like a ***** and then drive the kids head into the ground.

Bertuzzi should have had the privilage of playing in the NHL revoked for life on that.

Premeditated and intentional

 

[Wolfy*]

No way, McD isn't out for the season like so many were assuming last night? lol

Don't think so. I understand there are no fractures. But his left arm and shoulder took a beating, and a typical reaction would be swelling and muscle stiffness, and pain of course.

I assume he got cortisone shots and naproxen to make the muscles relax, heard he has the arm in sling to help on this.

I'd say he'll miss 2-3 games, surprised if he plays tomorrow.

 

[BroadwayHustle]

Here's the problem I have with that incident.

Moore did what he did to Naslund. It was dirty and they talked about retribution on Moore before the next time they played.

Next game starts and Moore is challenged. He accepts the challenge. That's the end of it.

Bertuzzi wanted to be the guy, then HE should have challenged Moore earlier in the game. You don't sucker punch a guy from behind like a ***** and then drive the kids head into the ground.

Bertuzzi should have had the privilage of playing in the NHL revoked for life on that.

Premeditated and intentional

I agree with the bolded, after that the game goes on and you forget about what happened. And Bertuzzi should have been banned for life, but now he is going to take all the money he earned and give it to Moore anyway. I don't know if you heard but in the lawsuit he is suing for $39 million, which was close to how much Bertuzzi has earned since the incident.

Don't think so. I understand there are no fractures. But his left arm and shoulder took a beating, and a typical reaction would be swelling and muscle stiffness, and pain of course.

I assume he got cortisone shots and naproxen to make the muscles relax, heard he has the arm in sling to help on this.

I'd say he'll miss 2-3 games, surprised if he plays tomorrow.

It definitely seems like he will miss more than 2-3 games. I would not be surprised if he misses the rest of the regular season just to make sure he is 100% healthy for the playoffs. Maybe he plays in the last 2 games or so just to test it. It would be incredible for him to be back and playing so fast

 

[SnowblindNYR]

It's really been in vogue to utterly trash the Rangers and say things like "minimally talented" since I've been watching. I mean, the Rangers had some of those teams 08-09 comes to mind and to a smaller extent 09-10. But people like to pretend like this team is a bunch of losers being carried by the best goalie ever. That's a huge reason why people think Lundqvist can do no wrong. Lundqvist is the logical link that explains why such a terrible team year in and year out makes the playoffs. So if Lundqvist isn't a God among men, then people's theory that we're the expansion Senators talent-wise won't hold up. It's getting old. Minimally talented teams aren't one of the best possession teams in the league and a top 5 defensive team even in the worst season their goalie has had as a pro (or at least that was the case for most of the season). Give it up, it doesn't make you a real fan or cool to come up with gross exaggerations. The Rangers are an above average team in talent. They're not the most talented team but still talented. ****ing Florida is minimally talented. This garbage that we're minimally talented while we have an outside shot at 100 points despite having to change systems drastically is ridiculous. 20 teams in the league wish they were as minimally talented as us.

 

[eco's bones]

The Rangers tried to sign Bryce Van Brabant a short time ago. Big, physical winger. Calgary got him instead. Sather/Gorton are trying to get the kind of player who can play and be a physical factor on the ice. It's not always easy.

Anyway I didn't appreciate Burrows hit on McDonagh last night but IMO it wasn't a dirty hit. It was a hockey play. Sometimes players get hurt from getting hit. Would it have been nice if someone on our team exacted some revenge?--Yeah but it was late in the game--there wasn't anyone really on the ice to do it and our team isn't tough. 'Team toughness' is really a hockey oxymoron if there ever was one. No team is going to be tough without someone for real leading the way.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Why would McD travel with the team if there is no chance he was playing? Team bonding?

 

[Levitate]

It definitely seems like he will miss more than 2-3 games. I would not be surprised if he misses the rest of the regular season just to make sure he is 100% healthy for the playoffs. Maybe he plays in the last 2 games or so just to test it. It would be incredible for him to be back and playing so fast

Maybe he does miss games but how can you possibly say any of this with any authority since the only news we have is "no structural damage"? There's no "definitely will miss games" at this point because we know almost exactly nothing. Could be severely bruised and by Thursday he feels good enough to play, who knows.

 

[Levitate]

It's really been in vogue to utterly trash the Rangers and say things like "minimally talented" since I've been watching. I mean, the Rangers had some of those teams 08-09 comes to mind and to a smaller extent 09-10. But people like to pretend like this team is a bunch of losers being carried by the best goalie ever. That's a huge reason why people think Lundqvist can do no wrong. Lundqvist is the logical link that explains why such a terrible team year in and year out makes the playoffs. So if Lundqvist isn't a God among men, then people's theory that we're the expansion Senators talent-wise won't hold up. It's getting old. Minimally talented teams aren't one of the best possession teams in the league and a top 5 defensive team even in the worst season their goalie has had as a pro (or at least that was the case for most of the season). Give it up, it doesn't make you a real fan or cool to come up with gross exaggerations. The Rangers are an above average team in talent. They're not the most talented team but still talented. ****ing Florida is minimally talented. This garbage that we're minimally talented while we have an outside shot at 100 points despite having to change systems drastically is ridiculous. 20 teams in the league wish they were as minimally talented as us.

Word. I actually like a lot of the talent the Rangers do have, short of having a legit elite superstar in the forward group. Not that it couldn't be improved but the Rangers have some players with real good vision and hands and they can make good things happen, and they have enough of them that so far this season when one line starts struggling another line picks up the slack.

Having more size would be great but not at the expense of some skill as well. It's why the Rangers jettisoned a guy like Pyatt...big, but not skilled and doesn't do a lot on the ice. If the options are small and skilled versus big and hands of stone I'll take small and skilled every day.