BernieParent
In misery of redwings of suckage for a long time
Thanks for sharing the Flyers' internal personnel memos with me.
GDT: #39 | Flyers at Golden Knights | Thursday, January 2, 2025 | 10:00 PM | NBCSP+, 93.3 FM
- Thread starter Beef Invictus
- Start date
Magua
Entirely Palatable Product
I haven’t caught a game in a month. It’s been freeing. If you put a true rebuilding team on the ice, with a front office and coaching staff that grasped that, along with a no doubt superstar prospect and other high upside ones, I’d be tuning in more. I can’t stomach something without a purpose. This era will be yet another waste, and we’re just getting started.
freakydallas13
Registered User
I hear you. I don't think I've sat down and watched an entire Flyers game since.....2023? Sometimes I have it on in the background, but even that feels like a chore most nights. They don't even play exciting hockey and lose, the team's goal is to allow as few goals as possible. For both teams.
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
It cannot get worse. Perpetual mediocrity and a refusal to become good is the worst possible path. That's what they're doing.
Name a bad team. The Flyers are as bad.
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
Your performance with cherry picking stats and running from one stat to another today has been intellectually revolting. Come on.
You've talked yourself into so many different corners because there is no possible way to honestly and correctly defend what this team is doing.
Yes, his scoring rate is down but he is still able to limit shot attempts and scoring chances at a solid level. He still plays solidly defensively. His position is not wing and he should remain at center. He just needs to be moved to a secondary role.
There is nothing exciting about watching this team play. Most games it's like watching paint dry. A conservative checking style with a pathetic PP.. They aren't competitive. They have the 2nd fewest regulation wins in the league. Meh, lets not tank and keep doing the same thing they've been doing for 14 years. Yea, that ought to get it done.
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In the short time that I have been following your posts. The only conclusions that I can come to are your either just a hopeless fanboy drinking the cool aid or that you're delusional. None of that young talent they have, other than Michkov, has elite potential. When the youth you have can't carry your team to legit contention, it is irrelevant how young they are. The statement you made of "the fact that they're too good to tank also means that they need to add less talent to compete" is absurd. The goal is not to compete! The goal is to win the fricken Stanley Cup. Elite talent builds teams to legit contention. Not a collection of middle 6 talent and role players. There is one very basic principal in the sport of hockey that you need to learn. Being in the middle ground in hockey, with no realistic chance of becoming an elite team and due to that position, very low odds of acquiring future elite talent, is the worst possible position a team can be in. That is the plan the Flyers have. That is what their strategy is going to get them, Extra draft picks! LOL
One more thing. Players on this team have gotten benched for puck management issues. If you don't think so, you aren't paying attention.
kudymen
Hakstok was a fascist clique hiver lickballs.gif
It can get worse. Being a bottom 5 team and maintaining the same draft strategy.
Being a bottom 5 team would be an improvement, not getting worse.
CerpinTaxt
Registered User
I mean I get what he's saying. Last time they were bottom 5 they drafted Gauthier. That definitely didnt do anything for them
you are saying it's not a team sport to win championships? like tampa's draft picks after the first round are all garbage, it was just stamkos? chicago still had towes and kane after hossa left, why didnt they win any more championships?
why couldnt mcdavid close out the florida panthers?
why is nashville struggling with their talented roster? if you know hockey you should explain it then.
They completely screwed up that situation due to their incompetence. However Gauthier has a chance to be a really good NHL player.
How can you possibly get that I'm saying it's not a team sport out of that? What I'm saying is the obvious. The Flyers need to add elite talent. You can't win without it. The best odds of getting that is with high draft picks. So the Flyers finishing in the bottom 5 versus the trajectory they're on now would be an improvement to their chances of adding elite talent. Still have to build a team around them but you need that core in place. Without it, you're going nowhere. If you know hockey, it shouldn't need to be explained.
FlyerNutter
In the forest, a man learns what it means to live
McDavid couldn’t close out the Panthers partially because they had Barkov, Tkachuk, Reinhart, and an elite goaltender.
The Flyers have Michkov, and the worst professional/amateur scouting staff in the league.
This retool “plan” is asinine, and incredibly lazy.
The Flyers have Michkov, and the worst professional/amateur scouting staff in the league.
This retool “plan” is asinine, and incredibly lazy.
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
Step 1, which should have been taken years ago, is "Fire every single current employee."
kudymen
Hakstok was a fascist clique hiver lickballs.gif
He doesnt. Ever since his join date the only thing he does is react to random critical post and say "So why are you still a fan, why dont you enjoy where they are right now?"
He doesnt react to what you actually say. Ever.
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
- 51,688
- 22,528
People throw around the term "elite" talent, but what does that mean?
High draft picks? A lot fail or just turn out to be good, but not great.
The top scoring forwards last 3 years:
McDavid (#1), McKinnon (#1), Kucherov (#58), Draisaitl (#3), Rantanen (#10), Pastrnak (#25), Panarin, Marner (#4), Tkachuk (#6), Crosby (#1), Nylander (#8), Point (#79), Kaprizov (#135), Pettersson (#5), Robertson (#39), Matthews (#1)
Top D-men:
Q Hughes (#7), Makar (#4), Fox (#66), Josi (#38), Hedman (#2), Bouchard (#10)
Top goalies:
Hellebuyck (#130), Vasilevskiy (#19), Shesterkin (#118), Saros (#99), Sorokin (#78)
Edmonton and Toronto have the most "stars", Edmonton got the SC finals once, Toronto has yet to get past the 2nd rd. It's not the NBA, it's a team game where quality depth can compensate for lack of star power.
Once you get past the top scorers or so, the curve flattens out, sizeable dropoff after #7 (Panarin), the falloff from say Matthews to Bratt is 12 (non empty net) points over 2 1/2 years. So if you can't get one of the truly elite scorers, simply have one more solid starter will bridge the gap between a top scorer and a very good scorer.
So yeah, it helps to pick at the top of the draft, but more importantly, it helps to have a lot of picks in the top 40, or at least the top 100, and to draft well. If you can't draft and develop players, picking at the top won't help anyway unless you get #1 with a can't miss franchise player on the board - and that happens less than half the time.
2024: Celebrini, 2023: Bedard, 2022: Slafovsky, 2021: Power, 2020: LaFreniere, 2019: Hughes, 2018: Dahlin, 2017: Hischier, 2016: Matthews, 2015: McDavid, 2014: Ekblad, 2013: MacKinnon, 2012: Yakupov, 2011: RNH, 2010: Hall.
Not sold on Bedard as a "franchise" player, Hughes is a great scorer but a great player?
Point is there are a lot of players taken #11-20 who are as good as most of these players.
Even having #1 doesn't guarantee you a cornerstone player.
High draft picks? A lot fail or just turn out to be good, but not great.
The top scoring forwards last 3 years:
McDavid (#1), McKinnon (#1), Kucherov (#58), Draisaitl (#3), Rantanen (#10), Pastrnak (#25), Panarin, Marner (#4), Tkachuk (#6), Crosby (#1), Nylander (#8), Point (#79), Kaprizov (#135), Pettersson (#5), Robertson (#39), Matthews (#1)
Top D-men:
Q Hughes (#7), Makar (#4), Fox (#66), Josi (#38), Hedman (#2), Bouchard (#10)
Top goalies:
Hellebuyck (#130), Vasilevskiy (#19), Shesterkin (#118), Saros (#99), Sorokin (#78)
Edmonton and Toronto have the most "stars", Edmonton got the SC finals once, Toronto has yet to get past the 2nd rd. It's not the NBA, it's a team game where quality depth can compensate for lack of star power.
Once you get past the top scorers or so, the curve flattens out, sizeable dropoff after #7 (Panarin), the falloff from say Matthews to Bratt is 12 (non empty net) points over 2 1/2 years. So if you can't get one of the truly elite scorers, simply have one more solid starter will bridge the gap between a top scorer and a very good scorer.
So yeah, it helps to pick at the top of the draft, but more importantly, it helps to have a lot of picks in the top 40, or at least the top 100, and to draft well. If you can't draft and develop players, picking at the top won't help anyway unless you get #1 with a can't miss franchise player on the board - and that happens less than half the time.
2024: Celebrini, 2023: Bedard, 2022: Slafovsky, 2021: Power, 2020: LaFreniere, 2019: Hughes, 2018: Dahlin, 2017: Hischier, 2016: Matthews, 2015: McDavid, 2014: Ekblad, 2013: MacKinnon, 2012: Yakupov, 2011: RNH, 2010: Hall.
Not sold on Bedard as a "franchise" player, Hughes is a great scorer but a great player?
Point is there are a lot of players taken #11-20 who are as good as most of these players.
Even having #1 doesn't guarantee you a cornerstone player.
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
It increases your chances of getting a cornerstone player massively. You know this. You know the probability curve. You've posted about it. Stop pretending you don't understand.
kudymen
Hakstok was a fascist clique hiver lickballs.gif
It doesnt magically appear by some random "people throwing the term around". The Flyers did and do.
So if the Flyers are aware of it, they should also be aware what it means.
thehockeywriters.com
So if the Flyers are aware of it, they should also be aware what it means.
Flyers' Lack of "Top-End Talent" Shows on Struggling Power Play - The Hockey Writers Latest News, Analysis & More
The Philadelphia Flyers have the worst power-play unit in the NHL in 2021-22, and Chuck Fletcher lacks a clear path for improving it.
thehockeywriters.com
Your post is an extreme logic fail. It's about odds. Sure you can get an elite player after the top of the draft but what are the odds? To see that and do a proper analysis. You have to look at how many picks are made and how many players turn out to be all star to elite level. Trust me, it's not about having a lot of top 40 picks. It's about picks at the top, making the right picks and proper development.
Conor Bedard is 19 years old and has put up 95 points in 107 career games playing on a really bad team and you're not sold on him as a franchise player? Seriously?
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
- 51,688
- 22,528
It also requires you strip your roster of viable talent - to be bad enough to garner a top 3 pick means being really bad - which means you have almost no real NHL players on your roster:
2023-24: 47, 52, 59 points
2022-23: 58, 59, 59
2021-22: 55, 57, 60
The problem is you add a couple top picks, but you're still an awful team for years to come because you also need to add a lot of depth. And after 4-5 years, you need to give big contracts to that handful of high picks - see Toronto and Edmonton and their issues filling out their roster due to cap constraints.
There is no "right" strategy, there are wrong strategies (patch 'n' pray), but more commonly, bad implementation of a good strategy.
Accumulating young assets is a viable strategy, question is whether Briere can implement it successfully (find and develop players, build up a surplus, then swing a couple major deals).
The jury will be out for a few more years (not this board, but I don't take opinions here seriously) - either it works and they're a SC contender in 2027-28, or it doesn't and the next GM inherits a team with a lot of young talent that can be quickly reworked.
It's hysterical that you don't take opinions here seriously when the majority of the board schools you on a daily basis. Explore what viable talent is. Do teams win Stanley Cups with just viable talent or do they win them with elite high level talent sorrounded by a quality mix of support and role players? You're completely wrong about there not being a "right" strategy. There most certainly is unless you mean a fool proof strategy. Just like with draft picks, it's about probability. I can tell you right now without any doubt that the Flyers and Brier's strategy, will not work. It's the same strategy they've been using for heading towards two decades. The Flyers roster should be stripped of viable talent and the acquisition of Michkov should be seen as the beginning of rebuild rather than the beginning of the end stage that the Flyers see it as. They're just waiting for the cap to clear up to begin another fruitless cycle. I can see that educating you on reality, is a full time job.
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
No it doesn't. The Flyers could keep TK, Farabee, Foerster, Michkov, Sanheim, and still suck ass by selling off everything that is irrelevant to Michkov's prime.
You whine and moan about how the team will be bad if they rebuild. Newsflash, theyre bad now. Bottom tier of the league. There is one way out and you don't want them to take it.
There is no right strategy? Ok. There are definitely wrong strategies. The Flyers' strategy has a 0.000% chance of working. Seems wrong. They should do something else.
You were saying "the jury is out for a few more years" since you joined. It's been ten years. You started trying to claim they're rebuilding in 2020 if not earlier. They haven't done a single rebuilding thing since then. It's pure delusion
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