GDT: #36 | Flyers at Ducks | Saturday, December 28, 2024 | 4:00 PM | NBCSP, 97.5 FM

[Beef Invictus]

When literally stripping said Hathaway (with that "extension") from something that would appeal to a buyer at TDL that season?
Seriously?

We are this close to hearing "it is good to get nothing of value, ever."

 

[kudymen]

We are this close to hearing "it is good to get nothing of value, ever."

October games do not matter
November games do not matter
December games do not matter
February moves do not matter because you can make some in June
June moves do not matter because you can make some next February
Assets need to be accumulated all the time
You have to wait moves (to gain said assets) out presumably multiple years because you want to win the move (risk aversion 101 lolzzzz)
If you wait them out, its alright because they are hard anyway

 

[Beef Invictus]

October games do not matter
November games do not matter
December games do not matter
February moves do not matter because you can make some in June
June moves do not matter because you can make some next February
Assets need to be accumulated all the time
You have to wait moves out presumably multiple years because you want to win the move (risk aversion 101 lolzzzz)
If you wait them out, its alright because they are hard anyway

We need talent
We cannot do anything to get talent

 

[kudymen]

We need talent
We cannot do anything to get talent

And finally, question asked earlier today:

what is talent anyway

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

We are this close to hearing "it is good to get nothing of value, ever."

Shows that you’re willing to stand up to the big bad wolf and won’t get ran over.

 

[Boocowski]

It isn't done and gone. The Fletcher regime-by-committee is still here. They removed Fletcher and nobody else. It's the same incompetent people minus one incompetent person. They didn't add any competence.

Every time someone whines "go get another teeeeaaammmm" it's solely because they don't like the truth.

I don't agree with that. I do not think it is the "same" as with Fletcher. That idea implies that Briere and Jones are just puppets and I do not believe that is true.

 

[Boocowski]

Because they're glued against the cap from all of Fletcher's mistakes, and, because Briere kinda sucks and isn't going to be creative enough to make a big splash given the circumstances he's in.

It takes time to get out of the Fletcher mess but it's too early to say Briere kinda sucks.

We have extra draft picks next year so that's a positive step but 2026-27 is the key season to evaluate Briere. A whole bunch of UFAs and dead Fletcher era salary off the books. A lot of opportunity there to either move forward or screw it up again. That's the year I decide if Briere is a good GM or "kinda sucks".

Maybe that's too long to wait for some people but thanks to Fletcher that's kind of where we are stuck. 2026-27 is the make it or break it year.

 

[ybnvs]

Why would a rebuilding team be signing expensive free agents? That would be a Holmgren move.

What rebuilding team doesn't rebuild? The Flyers.

Trading Provy and Giroux doesn't make it a rebuild (Walker doesn't count).

 

[Beef Invictus]

I don't agree with that. I do not think it is the "same" as with Fletcher. That idea implies that Briere and Jones are just puppets and I do not believe that is true.

I didn't say they were puppets. I said they were incompetent, and every single indication so far points to that being true.

 

[deadhead]

What rebuilding team doesn't rebuild? The Flyers.

Trading Provy and Giroux doesn't make it a rebuild (Walker doesn't count).

Trading a 27 year old D-man is certainly a rebuilding move.
And Walker was part of that.

If Seeler and Hathaway are your biggest argument that they're not rebuilding, you're on thin ice.
And no matter how often Beef reiterates his complaints, they're not tanking.

Laughton moving to LW certainly makes him expendable.
Risto has increased his value.
Farabee may be odd man out or just waiting for Laughton to be moved. Frost might be extended or used as part of a package for a legitimate young top 6 center. Let's see where they are July 1.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Trading a 27 year old D-man is certainly a rebuilding move.
And Walker was part of that.

If Seeler and Hathaway are your biggest argument that they're not rebuilding, you're on thin ice.
And no matter how often Beef reiterates his complaints, they're not tanking.

Laughton moving to LW certainly makes him expendable.
Risto has increased his value.
Farabee may be odd man out or just waiting for Laughton to be moved. Frost might be extended or used as part of a package for a legitimate young top 6 center. Let's see where they are July 1.

Provorov was a "culture move" where they move a malcontent diva. It was not with intent to rebuild.

Neither was Walker. They tried as hard as they could to keep him.

You said "let's see where they are in the summer" last year and we already saw.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Provorov wanted out, and Comcast wanted no part of that PR thing with him refusing elements of that pride night.

 

[Boocowski]

I didn't say they were puppets. I said they were incompetent, and every single indication so far points to that being true.

Aren't you suggesting that Clarke and Holmgren still make all the decisions, hence puppets?

 

[ybnvs]

Trading a 27 year old D-man is certainly a rebuilding move.
And Walker was part of that.

The President of the team said to the Flyers players and to us fans they are not rebuilding. Start there with your arguments before going any further. Their decisions and indecisions start to make a lot more sense when you take that to be their actual stance.

Walker was never part of any plan (do they even have one? please don't speculate that was rhetorical). He was a big question mark going into the season and no one knew how he would fair and wound up surprising the entire league. It takes 0 braincells to understand that situation and continue par for the course to flip him at the deadline. Selling high shouldn't be as hard as you or the Flyers make it out to be.

I take issue with your stance because at the time Walker was acquired, the Flyers weren't even rebuilding. Provorov was moved because his deep, strong Russian Orthodox beliefs (which none of us knew about prior) were creating conflict with other players on the team as well as affecting their bottom line; money spent by the fanbase.

Trading Giroux for Tippett does not signify a rebuild. The pick in addition to Tippett has been kicked down the road; the pick won't materialize for another 3-5 years if at all (they also have to use the pick, first). Almost three years ago Giroux was traded and in another, maybe, 3-5 more years that pick might be in the bottom 6 or on the 3rd pair!

This isn't a rebuild.

If Seeler and Hathaway are your biggest argument that they're not rebuilding, you're on thin ice.
And no matter how often Beef reiterates his complaints, they're not tanking.

They're not. They're small potatoes in the grand scheme of things, but certainly representatives of the larger overall rot within the organization. I am my own person with my own thoughts and ideas. I am not Beef Invictus. If you care to know them, then please ask.

I understand the team is not tanking. They never would. There's too much faux-pride and ridiculous egoism within the front office and fanbase to tear it down for several years to fix what's really wrong with the team.

The Darkest Timeline consists of being mired in mediocrity, you know that right?

 

[JojoTheWhale]

If Laughton was made expendable by moving to LW, we're now saying he was previously indispensable. I don't even need to make my own arguments. Their process sucks if you just think through the defenses and say nothing.

 

[Opus]

Quite the read - wish I had a bourbon while reading that

 

[Beef Invictus]

Aren't you suggesting that Clarke and Holmgren still make all the decisions, hence puppets?

No, I never said they make all the decisions.

 

[FLYguy3911]

How is this thread still alive?

 

[JojoTheWhale]

How is this thread still alive?

You know the rules. If a Ducks fan posts here, another plague has been willed into existence.

 

[kudymen]

Quite the read - wish I had a bourbon while reading that

Someone had bourbon writing that

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

How is this thread still alive?

People are still throwing breadcrumbs to the trolls

 

[Opus]

You know the rules. If a Ducks fan posts here, another plague has been willed into existence.

Not to mention the whole bird flu thing...

 

[deadhead]

If Laughton was made expendable by moving to LW, we're now saying he was previously indispensable. I don't even need to make my own arguments. Their process sucks if you just think through the defenses and say nothing.

Center has been a black hole for a while.
I mean they made Filppula their 2C, that tells you how thin they've been.
Forget winning, without at least decent centers, how do you develop and evaluate wings?

Neither Laughton or Couts are really NHL centers anymore, Poehling is fine as a 4C but nothing more.
[Couts is too slow in today's NHL, at wing his smarts could compensate, at center, he has to play too carefully not to get caught up ice]
So you have Frost and Cates. And if there's an injury, Gaucher, Gardner or Rizzo.

That's the crux of the problem, and it extends to LHV, where Rizzo's surgery, Richard aging out of center left them with Abols, Gardner as their top centers to start the season. Rizzo getting healthy and Gaucher emerging has helped that problem, but none are NHL ready/quality. Abols has stepped up his game recently, someone to watch.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Center has been a black hole for a while.
I mean they made Filppula their 2C, that tells you how thin they've been.
Forget winning, without at least decent centers, how do you develop and evaluate wings?

Neither Laughton or Couts are really NHL centers anymore, Poehling is fine as a 4C but nothing more.
[Couts is too slow in today's NHL, at wing his smarts could compensate, at center, he has to play too carefully not to get caught up ice]
So you have Frost and Cates. And if there's an injury, Gaucher, Gardner or Rizzo.

I'm not even saying your guess is wrong. I think it's better than 50-50 you're right.

I am saying it's horrendous process. Look at the A to B here. We can't trade Laughton because Couturier isn't ideally a Center. There's no reasonable overlap between those two players. They have Frost, Cates, and Poheling. They've deployed the worst of those (Poehling) up and down the lineup at will. Hell, they could go trade for another guy who happens to be available dirt cheap. But you can't functionally spend multiple high draft picks on 2023/4 Scott Laughton because of this decision tree or you're fundamentally broken as an org. Stepping outside of the box you've trapped yourself in is rather important.

 

[kudymen]

I dont know how to process that a rebuilding team cannot trade a player of certain position because said rebuilding team has currently no better option at said position.