GDT: #36 | Flyers at Ducks | Saturday, December 28, 2024 | 4:00 PM | NBCSP, 97.5 FM

MJL66

Registered User
Nov 30, 2008
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97
But they didn't "burn out" last season, they actually put up BETTER metrics after trading Walker and having Seeler injured for most of the remaining season.

The goalies imploded, just like they have this season.
With average goaltending, they end up with 95 points and a playoff berth last season.
That's false, they did implode. Feel free to document those metrics
 
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MJL66

Registered User
Nov 30, 2008
254
97
But they didn't "burn out" last season, they actually put up BETTER metrics after trading Walker and having Seeler injured for most of the remaining season.

The goalies imploded, just like they have this season.
With average goaltending, they end up with 95 points and a playoff berth last season.
Feel free to document those metrics
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
51,618
22,507
Feel free to document those metrics
First 62 games, 5x5 (score & venue adjusted)
xGF 52.03% (9), HDCF 52.53% (10), Sh% 7.91% (27), (GA - xGA)/60 [all] = +0.08,
.571 point % (94 points)

Last 20 games,
xGF 53.29% (9), HDCF 55.25% (7), Sh% 7.19% (30), (GA - xGA)/60 [all] = +0.90
.400 point % (65 points)
 

MJL66

Registered User
Nov 30, 2008
254
97
First 62 games, 5x5 (score & venue adjusted)
xGF 52.03% (9), HDCF 52.53% (10), Sh% 7.91% (27), (GA - xGA)/60 [all] = +0.08,
.571 point % (94 points)

Last 20 games,
xGF 53.29% (9), HDCF 55.25% (7), Sh% 7.19% (30), (GA - xGA)/60 [all] = +0.90
.400 point % (65 points)
That incomplete and just 5 on 5. What about PK. What about GA/60 what about GF%. As has been explained to you previously. Not all high danger chances are created equal. The Flyers clearly ran out of gas and their level of play dropped of significantly down the stretch. Especially during that losing streak. It wasn't just goaltending that faltered.
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
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Armored Train
No, that's not my goal. I just don't see the gratification in reveling in their failures the way some people do. I'd rather they slowly got better and gave me some entertainment along the way than hoping they crash and burn so you can maybe get a new guy to do it a way you prefer (which you might not get, you might get worse).

I don't want to be Buffalo and if we keep firing people and tearing it down that's what we will be. Forever on the outside.


I can see it now. Well ya we won but we should have swept them and not taken 7 games to do it. They blew game 5. Stupid team and now all their free agents are going to want more money how are we going to manage that? You can picture it.


I'll make it more clear: this was straight up not an enjoyable or fun game. They've had some of those this year. This isn't one.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
51,618
22,507
That incomplete and just 5 on 5. What about PK. What about GA/60 what about GF%. As has been explained to you previously. Not all high danger chances are created equal. The Flyers clearly ran out of gas and their level of play dropped of significantly down the stretch. Especially during that losing streak. It wasn't just goaltending that faltered.
You're moving the goal posts. The STs sucked all year.
Most of the game is played at 5x5, if they were running out of gas, it would have been evident in the 5x5 metrics.
Instead they played as well or better, despite a decimated defense.

It was the goalies that sunk the ship.
 

MJL66

Registered User
Nov 30, 2008
254
97
You're moving the goal posts. The STs sucked all year.
Most of the game is played at 5x5, if they were running out of gas, it would have been evident in the 5x5 metrics.
Instead they played as well or better, despite a decimated defense.

It was the goalies that sunk the ship.
No, it was the same as we're seeing this year. Catastrophic defensive breakdowns in coverage and bleeding goals. It was not just goaltending. You're also wrong that the ST's sucked all year. The PP sucked all year but the PK was very good for large parts of the season.
 

Boocowski

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Mar 31, 2024
164
121
Do you remember the careers of Lindros and Giroux? How they never built enough around either of them?

They're running down a path to do the same thing with Michkov. Sprinting at a pace that Usain Bolt would sweat over.
Well sure, but they did get LeClair to play with Lindros. Oddly you can also remember that as good as Lindros might have been, Forsberg won the cups. Maybe staying the course there instead of the big trade would have brought a bigger reward eventually? Hard to say.

For this management group you have to maybe accept that they see this as year 1. Michkov's rookie year as their starting point. It maybe caught them by surprise coming earlier than expected. The plan was tear down and ditch the slackers, build a strong team culture, and then insert the talent (Michkov plus). It's likely a longer time frame than we would like but the tanking alternative has been shown to fail miserably. Rebuilding your culture after tanking is hard. Buffalo still can't get out of it.

If you tank you really have to get it right and you often don't. Would I like more high skill talent added? Sure. Absolutely, but I'm not too worried about this year. There's still some trades to be made (like Risto maybe) and the goalies need to evolve and Michkov has to learn English and adjust to the NHL. NEXT year I expect improvement and then every year after that. If not, then it's a fail.

Ultimately you know the Carter Hart situation screwed this team. With good goaltending we would have made the playoffs last year. We might be Washington. Left with what we have though it's a who knows what every night and sometimes the team falls apart because of that. Just have to hope Errson or Kolosov eventually develops.
 

renberg

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Dec 31, 2003
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forums.hfboards.com
First 62 games, 5x5 (score & venue adjusted)
xGF 52.03% (9), HDCF 52.53% (10), Sh% 7.91% (27), (GA - xGA)/60 [all] = +0.08,
.571 point % (94 points)

Last 20 games,
xGF 53.29% (9), HDCF 55.25% (7), Sh% 7.19% (30), (GA - xGA)/60 [all] = +0.90
.400 point % (65 points)
This is where analytics don’t tell when entire story. In the end, the only stats that really matters are W/Ls. The scoreboard is the final story. The Flyers melted away in the last quarter of the season.
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
131,111
172,628
Armored Train
Well sure, but they did get LeClair to play with Lindros. Oddly you can also remember that as good as Lindros might have been, Forsberg won the cups. Maybe staying the course there instead of the big trade would have brought a bigger reward eventually? Hard to say.

For this management group you have to maybe accept that they see this as year 1. Michkov's rookie year as their starting point. It maybe caught them by surprise coming earlier than expected. The plan was tear down and ditch the slackers, build a strong team culture, and then insert the talent (Michkov plus). It's likely a longer time frame than we would like but the tanking alternative has been shown to fail miserably. Rebuilding your culture after tanking is hard. Buffalo still can't get out of it.

If you tank you really have to get it right and you often don't. Would I like more high skill talent added? Sure. Absolutely, but I'm not too worried about this year. There's still some trades to be made (like Risto maybe) and the goalies need to evolve and Michkov has to learn English and adjust to the NHL. NEXT year I expect improvement and then every year after that. If not, then it's a fail.

Ultimately you know the Carter Hart situation screwed this team. With good goaltending we would have made the playoffs last year. We might be Washington. Left with what we have though it's a who knows what every night and sometimes the team falls apart because of that. Just have to hope Errson or Kolosov eventually develops.

Forsberg would have never won in Philly because Clarke was garbage at building depth. Lindros and LeClair does not a Cup make. Neither would Forsberg and LeClair.

They need to start seeing a starting point soon. The second he was drafted should have been that point. They are two years behind already. Washington is flat-out better coached and managed. We aren't a Washington; listening to Carbery talk compared to Tortorella is like listening to a professor speak on an area of expertise vs the rantings of a drunk hobo. We are a Buffalo. And that isn't going to change anytime soon.

If the plan was "tear down and get rid of the slackers," well, they never did that. They're never going to. They hate talent and love slop. Their entire approach, from top to bottom, is completely wrong and the opposite of what produces winning. Like I said, Buffalo doesn't work as some warning against rebuilding because we already are Buffalo and always will be until everyone the tean employs is fired and replaced with people who think the opposite things.
 

Boocowski

Registered User
Mar 31, 2024
164
121
Forsberg would have never won in Philly because Clarke was garbage at building depth. Lindros and LeClair does not a Cup make. Neither would Forsberg and LeClair.

They need to start seeing a starting point soon. The second he was drafted should have been that point. They are two years behind already. Washington is flat-out better coached and managed. We aren't a Washington; listening to Carbery talk compared to Tortorella is like listening to a professor speak on an area of expertise vs the rantings of a drunk hobo. We are a Buffalo. And that isn't going to change anytime soon.

If the plan was "tear down and get rid of the slackers," well, they never did that. They're never going to. They hate talent and love slop. Their entire approach, from top to bottom, is completely wrong and the opposite of what produces winning. Like I said, Buffalo doesn't work as some warning against rebuilding because we already are Buffalo and always will be until everyone the tean employs is fired and replaced with people who think the opposite things.
Well, I guess you should start following Washington then to be happier. If you truly believe this team will never get it together I guess you need a new team.
 

Boocowski

Registered User
Mar 31, 2024
164
121
So you can only be a fan of a team if you delude yourself about them?
Nah man, you can be whatever you want to be, but it must suck to be grumpy about them all the time. So all I'm saying is if you think they will never get it right (which is roughly what you said) then why stick with them? Unless you enjoy the complaining of course, then that's a whole other thing.
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
131,111
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Armored Train
Nah man, you can be whatever you want to be, but it must suck to be grumpy about them all the time. So all I'm saying is if you think they will never get it right (which is roughly what you said) then why stick with them? Unless you enjoy the complaining of course, then that's a whole other thing.

A more important question: who made you the gatekeeper of fandom? Why is "never question or doubt management" a criteria?
 
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Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
131,111
172,628
Armored Train
Not what I said dude, You're twisting my words. Don't worry about me, carry on hating, you clearly love it. You do you.

Take your own advice. Don't worry about me.

You clearly know you can't prove my observations about management wrong so you're doing this weird thing where you merely hope I disappear and stop pointing out sad truths.

Embracing the truth is positive behavior, by the way. So my honest and clear appraisal of management is way more positive than the enabling blind devotion that feeds them money and support for nothing
 
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