GDT: #35 | Flyers at Penguins | Monday, December 23, 2024 | 7:00 PM | NBCSP, 93.3 FM

[deadhead]

He isn't a 1C. This was always them being the smartest people in the room. I don't doubt for a second that Jett is going to be a serviceable to good NHL player. I'm sure he's going to be a better Laughton. But that's about where it ends. A better Laughton is still a very good hockey player.

Buium or Helenius who is an 18 year old in the AHL averaging half a point and playing great two way hockey was ALWAYS the right decision.

I had Hage higher than most, as well as Boisvert. But i won't malign them for not taking them. Buium and Helenius were always the right decisions.

I'll wait. Not sold on Buium yet, sophomore season looks just like his freshman season, notice two Denver forwards are #1 and #2 in NCAA scoring, so Buium being the leading scoring NCAA D-man isn't as impressive as it looks. Denver inflates scoring, look at Rizzo and Brink putting up elite numbers. Devine is also 7th rd pick doing the same.

Helenius was further advanced, Jett has more upside, again, I'll wait.
Helenius is having a good AHL season for a 18 year old.

Jett made the Canadian team over more hyped and older prospects, he's the third youngest position player on the team. Doesn't guarantee anything, but a good sign.

All three should be top 6/top 4. Whether they turn out to be first line/first pair remains to be seen.
At #12/#13, all are good picks. All three may turn out to be better than Cutter/Drysdale.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

I’m just assuming that Torts is deliberately trying to sabotage his point totals. Can’t have that kid winning an award or anything, might get cocky. Or worse yet, steal the narrative. It’s not about protecting the youth, it’s about protecting a dead legacy.

when Torts comes out even before game #1 and says "this isnt going to become the MM show.." it shows all the cards..

what other Org. would get a draftee like MM then tell the fanbase he isnt going to be allowed to be a show stealer..

#sameasiteverwas...

They aren't getting a top pick this year. They are already pretty firmly entrenched around 8-12th OA. NHL standings barely move after Christmas.

yea we will pick like 12-14th as usual drafting yet another nobody who ends up being a nobody..

#darkesttimeline...

 

[Gurglesons]

Saw the Pens broadcast. They had some extended time talking to Dubas as play went on. That GM is not in the same playing field as ours. Made it a point to single out and praise Sanheim - bonus points for that.

Just because Dubas is good at talking doesn't mean he is a good GM.

 

[Audible Velvet]

Just because Dubas is good at talking doesn't mean he is a good GM.

Yes.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Over the past two years, they've added two free agents, Hathaway and Poehling.
One trade for Johnson after they traded Walker and had two other D-men on IR.
Didn't even pick up a serviceable veteran in the Provorov deal.
Drysdale has struggled but is improving, meanwhile Gauthier has 9 ES points in 33 games.

Everyone else is a draft pick or acquired before Briere (Tippett).

They have the worst goalies in the league, two guys who shouldn't be starting but Hart . . .

After a horrendous start, they are now 15th in xGF and 17th in HDCF.
By the end of the season I won't be surprised if they're in the top 10.

This is EXACTLY what rebuilding looks like.
A young team struggling but showing flashes.
But also making a lot of mistakes.
Draft picks: #12, #18, #27, #39, #43, #44

No, that's what inaction looks like. They aren't rebuilding; rebuilding teams don't marry themselves to the status quo like the Flyers do. They aren't doing any thing. Hextall all over again.


I again remind you that xGF and HDCF is a mirage in a Tortorella offense because he smashes away the playmaking that other teams use to make those chances actually properly dangerous.

 

[MJL66]

No, that's what inaction looks like. They aren't rebuilding; rebuilding teams don't marry themselves to the status quo like the Flyers do. They aren't doing any thing. Hextall all over again.


I again remind you that xGF and HDCF is a mirage in a Tortorella offense because he smashes away the playmaking that other teams use to make those chances actually properly dangerous.

Flyers are 21st in the league in HDCF/60. Have to account for score effects also. The Flyers spend so much time behind and chasing the game. With the other team sitting back that it inflates their chance generation stats. They're a poor offensive team that is badly coached offensively. Tortorella systems stifle offense and most of it comes from individual efforts rather than from a cohesive designed offensive attack strategy. Hiring Tortorella was a huge mistake from day 1.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Flyers are 21st in the league in HDCF/60. Have to account for score effects also. The Flyers spend so much time behind and chasing the game. With the other team sitting back that it inflates their chance generation stats. They're a poor offensive team that is badly coached offensively. Tortorella systems stifle offense and most of it comes from individual efforts rather than from a cohesive designed offensive attack strategy. Hiring Tortorella was a huge mistake from day 1.

Those inflated chances also aren't particularly dangerous, as on top of the singular efforts you've described, they're often limited to staying on the same half of the ice. North South movement that doesn't get goalies moving laterally. Goalies are not challenged to stay on angles or forced to open up. So while a particular event may qualify as "HD," it isn't so much that because the play that precedes it didn't do much to unsettle the defense or goalie. A shot following a lateral pass across half-ish of the ice is way more dangerous than one that came from the faceoff dot after a pass from the boards.

The Penguins looked like their prime Sullivan form last night, on that note. They won Cups on being able to identify the gaps in team coverage and then passing through them from the boards to the other side of the slot.

 

[MJL66]

Those inflated chances also aren't particularly dangerous, as on top of the singular efforts you've described, they're often limited to staying on the same half of the ice. North South movement that doesn't get goalies moving laterally. Goalies are not challenged to stay on angles or forced to open up. So while a particular event may qualify as "HD," it isn't so much that because the play that precedes it didn't do much to unsettle the defense or goalie. A shot following a lateral pass across half-ish of the ice is way more dangerous than one that came from the faceoff dot after a pass from the boards.

The Penguins looked like their prime Sullivan form last night, on that note. They won Cups on being able to identify the gaps in team coverage and then passing through them from the boards to the other side of the slot.

No doubt. Moving the puck from one side of the ice to the other, setting up scoring triangles and getting a goalie to move are cornerstones of high quality offensive play. It is absent in the Flyers play. It's pretty much a forecheck and individual play. Rather than a coordinated attack strategy. It's just ice age hockey from a coach who the modern day NHL game has long passed him by.

 

[PDX Flyer]

The Flyers now have a Goal Differential worse than Buffalo, Chicago, Anaheim, and Montreal.

Unethical non-competitive team. I heard a rumor Keith Jones was spotted eating a Karl Marx book too. There is no bottom.

We did have a presidential candidate openly quoting Marx and Mao so you may be on to something here.

 

[deadhead]

MM is having his minutes limited b/c he's struggling, it's obvious he's hit the "rookie wall." The six days off should help him, but he's only 19, and not used to a NHL schedule. I think Chicago is overworking Bedard playing him 19 minutes a game and setting him up for injury. When you're rebuilding why ride a star prospect into the ground?

This is the last 20 or so games last season redux.

Yes, they make too many mistakes, but that's due to both inexperience and Tort's NOT being a defensive coach, he's encouraging them to take risks this season, a lot more cross ice passes. Learn to walk (last season) then run, but they're stumbling a lot.

Briere will make moves, but there's zero reason for him to rush into deals, with these goaltenders, the playoffs are unreachable. That was always the issue - and it's obvious the Hart thing completely blindsided them - they were hoping to work in Ersson over a couple season, not rush him as a starter.

So why not go get a veteran goaltender - they have the assets to get an average one - maybe give up a 2nd and 3rd - because they're rebuilding, trading assets to finish with 85-90 points instead of 75-80 points doesn't really make sense.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

They’re morons if the Hart thing completely blindsided them.

 

[Danko]

Michkov is 100% being benched for the anaheim game.

 

[MJL66]

MM is having his minutes limited b/c he's struggling, it's obvious he's hit the "rookie wall." The six days off should help him, but he's only 19, and not used to a NHL schedule. I think Chicago is overworking Bedard playing him 19 minutes a game and setting him up for injury. When you're rebuilding why ride a star prospect into the ground?

This is the last 20 or so games last season redux.

Yes, they make too many mistakes, but that's due to both inexperience and Tort's NOT being a defensive coach, he's encouraging them to take risks this season, a lot more cross ice passes. Learn to walk (last season) then run, but they're stumbling a lot.

Briere will make moves, but there's zero reason for him to rush into deals, with these goaltenders, the playoffs are unreachable. That was always the issue - and it's obvious the Hart thing completely blindsided them - they were hoping to work in Ersson over a couple season, not rush him as a starter.

So why not go get a veteran goaltender - they have the assets to get an average one - maybe give up a 2nd and 3rd - because they're rebuilding, trading assets to finish with 85-90 points instead of 75-80 points doesn't really make sense.

First of all, Michkov is not 19, he's 20. Struggles are to be expected in a young players development. The solution isn't to limit his minutes. The solution is to put him in the best position to succeed. The most advantageous offensive situations. With the linemates he clicks with the best. A player is unlikely to get out of a mini slump playing 10 minutes in a game. It is the only move that Tortorella knows. He's not a good coach. He views himself as a hammer so therefore he sees everything as a nail. Coach a player through stuggles. Reinforce his strengths and don't contribute to a lack of confidence. That's what Tororella consistently does. He kicks a player when they're down sapping their confidence further.
Your comments that the mistakes being made are due to both inexperience and Tortorella NOT being a defensive coach and encouraging them to take risks is completely false. If that was true, why did Tortorella bench York after he made a cross ice outlet pass that was picked off leading to goal against? Obviously what you claim is not the case. If we review the numerous goals against scored in the last few games, we don't see goals being scored against the Flyers due to the Flyers taking risks. What we seen is routine blown coverages on simple fundamental plays. Forwards not sorting out who the center is on back checks. Two forwards going to the same point man. Forwards not dropping down low enough in the low zone collapse system and puck watching as players pot the puck in the net. Two defenseman going to the same player such as on the goal that Malkin assisted on in the recent Pens game. I could diagram and link to goal after goal against the Flyers that has nothing to do with being aggressive and everything to do with basic breakdowns.
As far as goaltending, they did go out and get a vet goalie. They paid 3+M to Fedotov in a 2 year deal. Drastically overpaying due to needing that security blanket. A clear error is judgement. Blindsided by the Hart situation? They knew for months what was going going to happen. Everyone knew what was going to happen.You keep dealing in fantasy to try and support the Flyers instead of seeing the reality

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

They’re morons if the Hart thing completely blindsided them.

I get there’s legal stuff involved so I’m not saying they should have cut their ties or anything. But they definitely played him for an extended period of time knowing he was going to be involved in that.

I mean shit just based on the information out there in public it wasn’t hard to surmise there was a pretty decent chance he was one of the players as an outsider.

They all knew a lot more than they were leading onto the public.

 

[Fight4yourRight]

I get there’s legal stuff involved so I’m not saying they should have cut their ties or anything. But they definitely played him for an extended period of time knowing he was going to be involved in that.

I mean shit just based on the information out there in public it wasn’t hard to surmise there was a pretty decent chance he was one of the players as an outsider.

They all knew a lot more than they were leading onto the public.

Briere raised a complete scumbag, so it’s possible he’s also a scumbag himself. Not hard to imagine a scenario where they were simply focused on gathering as many points as possible before the hammer fell.

 

[deadhead]

They drafted two goalies before last season, signed Fedotov, brought Kolosov over.
Outside of trading for a veteran, not much else they could do.

Reason for playing Hart was so they didn't have to overwork Ersson.

 

[MJL66]

I get there’s legal stuff involved so I’m not saying they should have cut their ties or anything. But they definitely played him for an extended period of time knowing he was going to be involved in that.

I mean shit just based on the information out there in public it wasn’t hard to surmise there was a pretty decent chance he was one of the players as an outsider.

They all knew a lot more than they were leading onto the public.

The Hart situation was a blessing in disguise for the Flyers. It kept them from doing what they would've done if the situation was different. Signing an average goalie to a long term contract.

They drafted two goalies before last season, signed Fedotov, brought Kolosov over.
Outside of trading for a veteran, not much else they could do.

Reason for playing Hart was so they didn't have to overwork Ersson.

Sure there was more that they could've done. Not make the mistake in paying Fedotov 3.25M a year for starters.

 

[ellja3]

Completely agree on PHI not using diagonal passing, when I am watching other teams attack it's almost ''This is the same sport of hockey I am watching? This is allowed!?'' lol Not sure if xGF and all the similar metrics account for this movement, don't remember which of the analysts it was, but one dude did start to attempt incorporating where the pass came from into short metrics (so shot from the same spot was counted differently if it was diagonal pass vs just some tap-ahead from the boards half a meter away), but is it visible in JFresh and similar dashboards? Really not sure.

Having said all that... I will spare you from charts (have posted enough lately), but checking the HDCF, expected goals and shot attempts metrics it seems to me that, statistically speaking, Flyers have quite a lot above-average danger (lol), but not quite high danger chances - percentage-wise. We are low in total shot attempts, tho. So, the result is we have - comparing to other teams - quite few shot attempts, and those shots are kinda dangerous but not very lol. Not sure about you guys, but it matches my eye test.

 

[Rebels57]

Completely agree on PHI not using diagonal passing, when I am watching other teams attack it's almost ''This is the same sport of hockey I am watching? This is allowed!?'' lol Not sure if xGF and all the similar metrics account for this movement, don't remember which of the analysts it was, but one dude did start to attempt incorporating where the pass came from into short metrics (so shot from the same spot was counted differently if it was diagonal pass vs just some tap-ahead from the boards half a meter away), but is it visible in JFresh and similar dashboards? Really not sure.

Having said all that... I will spare you from charts (have posted enough lately), but checking the HDCF, expected goals and shot attempts metrics it seems to me that, statistically speaking, Flyers have quite a lot above-average danger (lol), but not quite high danger chances - percentage-wise. We are low in total shot attempts, tho. So, the result is we have - comparing to other teams - quite few shot attempts, and those shots are kinda dangerous but not very lol. Not sure about you guys, but it matches my eye test.

It's funny because there are proven studies that show shooting percentage goes way up if a horizontal pass across the middle of the ice directly precedes the shot attempt. Don't tell that to Torts though. North-South Hockey, baby!

 

[deadhead]

I've seen plenty of East-West passing this year.
Now not as many SUCCESSFUL East-West passes.
Part of the learning curve, when to pass, how to not telegraph your pass.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I've seen plenty of East-West passing this year.
Now not as many SUCCESSFUL East-West passes.
Part of the learning curve, when to pass, how to not telegraph your pass.

If you watched the rest of the league with objectivity you'd realize they attempt those passes at a far lower rate than basically everyone. That's Tortorella hockey. Always has been. Remember when I was warning you about it when he was hired? Those offensive limitations he puts in place to treat offense as defense in a different zone?

 

[BringBackHakstol]

Another day, another post filled with deadys lies and gaslighting. It's breathtaking

 

[Beef Invictus]

It's also worth noting that the Flyers' goal in their formation is to become open north-south. Not east-west. By design, they aren't working to make openings in the most effective way. It's not their goal.

Other teams who seem to be open and sit in east-west gaps do so. Just as the Flyers make themselves open north-south.

 

[VladDrag]

D

Completely agree on PHI not using diagonal passing, when I am watching other teams attack it's almost ''This is the same sport of hockey I am watching? This is allowed!?'' lol Not sure if xGF and all the similar metrics account for this movement, don't remember which of the analysts it was, but one dude did start to attempt incorporating where the pass came from into short metrics (so shot from the same spot was counted differently if it was diagonal pass vs just some tap-ahead from the boards half a meter away), but is it visible in JFresh and similar dashboards? Really not sure.

Having said all that... I will spare you from charts (have posted enough lately), but checking the HDCF, expected goals and shot attempts metrics it seems to me that, statistically speaking, Flyers have quite a lot above-average danger (lol), but not quite high danger chances - percentage-wise. We are low in total shot attempts, tho. So, the result is we have - comparing to other teams - quite few shot attempts, and those shots are kinda dangerous but not very lol. Not sure about you guys, but it matches my eye test.

(No, the xG models do not incorporate passing)

 

[deadhead]

I think the red area near the faceoff circle to the left is known as the "Tippett zone."