3 Stanley Cup Final appearances in 9 years for the Vegas organization

[gary559]

Some people here are very salty since Vegas has competent leadership. Before the expansion draft everybody had them as cannon fodder since they would get all the rejects from other teams. Now, after the fact, people pretend it did not happen but I'm sure we can necro some topics from 2016/2017 to see how cluless people are.

What they did in these 9 years is a masterclass in how to run a competitive team.

Everyone knew Vegas got the most generous expansion draft rules ever.

 

[Ghost of Murph]

My mind during the expansion draft after most every pick:

VGK pick: makes sense
Seattle pick: What the hell are they doing?

Same rules for both organizations. One made great choices. One didn't.

Throw in huge pickups multiple years. Stone, Marner, Hertl, Eichel, etc. Throw in multiple excellent head coach hires.

The organization has been deserving of all the success. Well-oiled machine.

 

[quackquackquack]

My mind during the expansion draft after most every pick:

VGK pick: makes sense
Seattle pick: What the hell are they doing?

Same rules for both organizations. One made great choices. One didn't.

Throw in huge pickups multiple years. Stone, Marner, Hertl, Eichel, etc. Throw in multiple excellent head coach hires.

The organization has been deserving of all the success. Well-oiled machine.

The difference is that other teams learned from their mistakes with the SEA draft vs VGK. They weren't going to let SEA put a gun to their head.

 

[hangman005]

The difference is that other teams learned from their mistakes with the SEA draft vs VGK. They weren't going to let SEA put a gun to their head.

That and Seattle hired Francis who couldn't hold a gun to their head even if he was handed the gun already held to their heads

 

[VivaLasVegas]

The difference is that other teams learned from their mistakes with the SEA draft vs VGK. They weren't going to let SEA put a gun to their head.

Not really. Maybe there was pushback from inside the Western Conference against whom Seattle would compete, but an Eastern Conference GM wouldn't hestitate to trade with Seattle if it made sense for them to do so.

The harder truth is that Francis never tried very hard to generate trades and was content to just take whatever unprotected players that he thought would fill out a roster. It was the sort of laziness that characterized his entire tenure in Seattle up until the point they finally canned him.

As an aside, getting Dave Hakstol as their coach wasn't exactly a mark of brilliance either.

 

[VivaLasVegas]

Everyone knew Vegas got the most generous expansion draft rules ever.

Vegas also paid the highest expansion fee ever at that time and that was part of the deal, which was simply good negotiation by Foley.

 

[647Hockey]

I think some of you guys trying to make it like Vegas had a gimme in the expansion draft are going overboard.

Look at their roster. Aside from MAF who was still good (but also had a meh seasons booted for Murray), most of the players were cast offs, barely played, or aged vets who were too much money for what they do now.

There is no way anyone would think Karlsson, Haula, Perron, Reilly Smith, Colin Miller, Schmidt, Theodore etc... would all gel and produce solid stats based off what they did past seasons. It's like half the team had career years. Even MAF had his best year better than Pens.

The team also had the second lowest PIM in the league. So the players they chose and surely some coaching tips too had the team giving up few PP to the other team. The team also had decent PP and PK % too at 10th and 11th. You dont get that with a random team built over the summer.

So cmon, give management credit for building a team that worked. It's not like the team cherry picked all star players from every other team.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Not really. Maybe there was pushback from inside the Western Conference against whom Seattle would compete, but an Eastern Conference GM wouldn't hestitate to trade with Seattle if it made sense for them to do so.

The harder truth is that Francis never tried very hard to generate trades and was content to just take whatever unprotected players that he thought would fill out a roster. It was the sort of laziness that characterized his entire tenure in Seattle up until the point they finally canned him.

As an aside, getting Dave Hakstol as their coach wasn't exactly a mark of brilliance either.

Case in point, Vegas was carried early on by Florida making one of the worst trades in recent history with them when they agreed to not protect Marchessault if Vegas also took on the Reilly Smith contract in a trade

 

[Cyclones Rock]

I'd be very interested to know what type of input that Foley has in major personnel decisions (Marner/Eichel/Stone/Hertl/Torts/etc). There seems to be a strategic impetus that isn't present in any other NHL organization.

The willingness of the organization to dispose of popular players (Thompson/JMM/MAF) and the manner in which full NMCs are given out seems to be completely divorced from any form of sentimentality. I just can't help but think that Foley has a heavy hand in these decisions. This isn't to demean or discount McCrimmon or MacPhee at all. In fact, it speaks to their abilities that they are able to frame things in such a manner that a non hockey guy (Foley) can make proper decisions-if he is as involved as I suspect that he is.

In any case, the VGK have an approach to running their organization which seems to optimize asset decisions in a salary cap environment. Their approach should be a role model for any struggling NHL organization.

 

[gary559]

Vegas also paid the highest expansion fee ever at that time and that was part of the deal, which was simply good negotiation by Foley.

I'm not saying it wasn't masterful execution from top to bottom, they made the most of a great situation. A lot of teams have had a lot worse expansion draft conditions to navigate.

 

[bobbyking]

this is one of the worst playoffs in nhl history

 

[ChanceVegas]

I think some of you guys trying to make it like Vegas had a gimme in the expansion draft are going overboard.

Look at their roster. Aside from MAF who was still good (but also had a meh seasons booted for Murray), most of the players were cast offs, barely played, or aged vets who were too much money for what they do now.

There is no way anyone would think Karlsson, Haula, Perron, Reilly Smith, Colin Miller, Schmidt, Theodore etc... would all gel and produce solid stats based off what they did past seasons. It's like half the team had career years. Even MAF had his best year better than Pens.

The team also had the second lowest PIM in the league. So the players they chose and surely some coaching tips too had the team giving up few PP to the other team. The team also had decent PP and PK % too at 10th and 11th. You dont get that with a random team built over the summer.

So cmon, give management credit for building a team that worked. It's not like the team cherry picked all star players from every other team.

Absolutely. People are forgetting that the biggest two names we got were MAF (who every one thought was washed) and James Neal (who some thought had a chance at leading the team and maybe had a decent season left in him). The rest were universally seen as decent bottom 6 guys or third pairing guys who had serious flaws in their games (Karlsson, Haula, Perron, Marchy, Smith, Carrier, McNabb, Schmidt, Bellmare) or just too young and inexperienced to find success for awhile (Tuch, Theo, Nosek) and some absolute clunkers (Eakin, Sbisa, Merril, Garrison, Leipsic, Engelland, etc.). Not to mention the actual cap dumps.

The fact that some of those players ended up being better than some of the ones teams protected came down to good scouting, good fit and good systems. VGK has always prioritized forechecking and defense over scoring, and much of the scoring has been very opportunistic. This team operates very similarly to that first year team. They are just more skilled now. The identity Vegas formed in that first year has carried over ever since.

There has been a bit of luck along the way, and especially in that first season, but I've always believed in the saying "you make your own luck." They've simply been among the best managed franchises since inception.

 

[VivaLasVegas]

A lot of teams have had a lot worse expansion draft conditions to navigate.

Agree, and it seems the League itself recognized that wasn't conducive to those teams properly establishing themselves.

 

[ChanceVegas]

Case in point, Vegas was carried early on by Florida making one of the worst trades in recent history with them when they agreed to not protect Marchessault if Vegas also took on the Reilly Smith contract in a trade

It's not only the players we took, it was the embarrassment of riches GM's gave us to take one unprotected players over another one. Those picks turned into trades for our best players over the years.

 

[hangman005]

I'd be very interested to know what type of input that Foley has in major personnel decisions (Marner/Eichel/Stone/Hertl/Torts/etc). There seems to be a strategic impetus that isn't present in any other NHL organization.

The willingness of the organization to dispose of popular players (Thompson/JMM/MAF) and the manner in which full NMCs are given out seems to be completely divorced from any form of sentimentality. I just can't help but think that Foley has a heavy hand in these decisions. This isn't to demean or discount McCrimmon or MacPhee at all. In fact, it speaks to their abilities that they are able to frame things in such a manner that a non hockey guy (Foley) can make proper decisions-if he is as involved as I suspect that he is.

In any case, the VGK have an approach to running their organization which seems to optimize asset decisions in a salary cap environment. Their approach should be a role model for any struggling NHL organization.

I don't know about direct input, but I'd say it's probably some kind of underlying undercurrent so to speak. When Foley eventually passes I expect the team will become very vanilla under new ownership

 

[VivaLasVegas]

I don't know about direct input, but I'd say it's probably some kind of underlying undercurrent so to speak. When Foley eventually passes I expect the team will become very vanilla under new ownership

Yeah, that's my fear. The team gets sold to MGM or some other corporation and is then enshittified.

Oh well, enjoy it while we can. "In the long run, we are all dead."

 

[ChanceVegas]

I don't know about direct input, but I'd say it's probably some kind of underlying undercurrent so to speak. When Foley eventually passes I expect the team will become very vanilla under new ownership

I definitely think the ruthless "win at all costs right now" attitude comes from Foley. As you know, he was the one who said playoffs in 2, cup in 6 as a mandate in the very beginning and was universally mocked for those expectations.

He is ruthless like a successful businessman. He seems to want the team run like he runs one of his businesses. And it seems to work.

 

[hangman005]

I definitely think the ruthless "win at all costs right now" attitude comes from Foley. As you know, he was the one who said playoffs in 2, cup in 6 as a mandate in the very beginning and was universally mocked for those expectations.

He is ruthless like a successful businessman. He seems to want the team run like he runs one of his businesses. And it seems to work.

His A League expansion team, Auckland FC was a year ahead of schedule, not the same level on competition but he wanted a championship in 3 years, he got it 2. He knows who to hire to build a winner.

 

[tarheelhockey]

The 3 key moves they made were they got stone for cheap. They got eichel for super cheap. It’s crazy hard to obtain a top 6 center let alone a superstar center. They bought low on eichel and it paid off handsomely. The third was Piet as a ufa. That’s an elite two way winger, elite center and #1 d man for peanuts.

Yeah, those really are crazy moves, especially Eichel. It was a risk that could have blown up in their faces, but a calculated risk knowing that he would have been LTIRetired if his neck continued to be a problem.

One thing that Vegas and Carolina have in common is a willingness to step in and profit when they see another team acting stupidly. Numerous players on both rosters have been the result of players let go for non-hockey reasons.

 

[NYRnine94]

I'd be very interested to know what type of input that Foley has in major personnel decisions (Marner/Eichel/Stone/Hertl/Torts/etc). There seems to be a strategic impetus that isn't present in any other NHL organization.

The willingness of the organization to dispose of popular players (Thompson/JMM/MAF) and the manner in which full NMCs are given out seems to be completely divorced from any form of sentimentality. I just can't help but think that Foley has a heavy hand in these decisions. This isn't to demean or discount McCrimmon or MacPhee at all. In fact, it speaks to their abilities that they are able to frame things in such a manner that a non hockey guy (Foley) can make proper decisions-if he is as involved as I suspect that he is.

In any case, the VGK have an approach to running their organization which seems to optimize asset decisions in a salary cap environment. Their approach should be a role model for any struggling NHL organization.

Why would there be any sentimental decisions? It's a business.

 

[Scorofeyev]

This roster just screamed instant contender.

Selection	Team Selected From
Calvin Pickard	Colorado
Luca Sbisa	Vancouver
Teemu Pulkkinen	Arizona
Jonathon Merrill	New Jersey
William Carrier	Buffalo
Cody Eakin	Dallas
Tomáš Nosek	Detroit
Jonathan Marchessault	Florida
Brayden McNabb	Los Angeles
Connor Brickley	Carolina
Chris Thorburn	Winnipeg
Pierre-Édouard Bellemare	Philadelphia
Jason Garrison	Tampa Bay
Jean-François Bérubé	NY Islanders
James Neal	Nashville
Deryk Engelland	Calgary
Brendan Leipsic	Toronto
Colin Miller	Boston
Marc Methot	Ottawa
David Schlemko	San Jose
David Perron	St. Louis
Oscar Lindberg	NY Rangers
Alexei Emelin	Montreal
Griffin Reinhart	Edmonton
Clayton Stoner	Anaheim
Erik Haula	Minnesota
William Karlsson	Columbus
Trevor van Riemsdyk	Chicago
Marc-André Fleury	Pittsburgh
Nate Schmidt	Washington

 

[ChanceVegas]

This roster just screamed instant contender.

Selection	Team Selected From
Calvin Pickard	Colorado
Luca Sbisa	Vancouver
Teemu Pulkkinen	Arizona
Jonathon Merrill	New Jersey
William Carrier	Buffalo
Cody Eakin	Dallas
Tomáš Nosek	Detroit
Jonathan Marchessault	Florida
Brayden McNabb	Los Angeles
Connor Brickley	Carolina
Chris Thorburn	Winnipeg
Pierre-Édouard Bellemare	Philadelphia
Jason Garrison	Tampa Bay
Jean-François Bérubé	NY Islanders
James Neal	Nashville
Deryk Engelland	Calgary
Brendan Leipsic	Toronto
Colin Miller	Boston
Marc Methot	Ottawa
David Schlemko	San Jose
David Perron	St. Louis
Oscar Lindberg	NY Rangers
Alexei Emelin	Montreal
Griffin Reinhart	Edmonton
Clayton Stoner	Anaheim
Erik Haula	Minnesota
William Karlsson	Columbus
Trevor van Riemsdyk	Chicago
Marc-André Fleury	Pittsburgh
Nate Schmidt	Washington

I still remember cringing every time Luca Sbisa took the ice.

 

[JaegerDice]

I get this is a 'big deal' cause Vegas is a new NHL team, but several teams in the cap era have been to 3 cup finals in 9 years or less.

Blackhawks
Penguins
Lightning
Panthers

So I'm not sure what this says other than 'Vegas is good', which we all surely already knew...

 

[647Hockey]

This roster just screamed instant contender.

Selection	Team Selected From
Calvin Pickard	Colorado
Luca Sbisa	Vancouver
Teemu Pulkkinen	Arizona
Jonathon Merrill	New Jersey
William Carrier	Buffalo
Cody Eakin	Dallas
Tomáš Nosek	Detroit
Jonathan Marchessault	Florida
Brayden McNabb	Los Angeles
Connor Brickley	Carolina
Chris Thorburn	Winnipeg
Pierre-Édouard Bellemare	Philadelphia
Jason Garrison	Tampa Bay
Jean-François Bérubé	NY Islanders
James Neal	Nashville
Deryk Engelland	Calgary
Brendan Leipsic	Toronto
Colin Miller	Boston
Marc Methot	Ottawa
David Schlemko	San Jose
David Perron	St. Louis
Oscar Lindberg	NY Rangers
Alexei Emelin	Montreal
Griffin Reinhart	Edmonton
Clayton Stoner	Anaheim
Erik Haula	Minnesota
William Karlsson	Columbus
Trevor van Riemsdyk	Chicago
Marc-André Fleury	Pittsburgh
Nate Schmidt	Washington

Ya. The most guaranteed first year 109 pt roster in the history of the NHL!

I think for many haters, they are just sore Vegas with expansion picks has been a solid team for a decade already winning a cup and a few more finals. Consistently good team.

If Vegas did what most expansion teams do in sports having a bunch of garbage seasons nobody would care and youd get your share of..... "Well, you got to draft and earn your way to becoming good like every other team". But because Vegas started out hot, they cant goof on that.

They are probably one of those hockey fans from a crap team who thinks a US city like Vegas doesnt deserve it, but their team of losers who miss the playoffs half the time some reason deserves it more because according to them.... "they are better truer hockey fans while dumbass US city X shouldnt win". Paraphrased of course, but you get the idea.

But it's pretty embarrassing that a new team in a city known for stag parties, casinos and Bunny Ranch can put out a better team with slot machine sounds effects in the arena than their city of supposedly expert management and fans.

 

[647Hockey]

I get this is a 'big deal' cause Vegas is a new NHL team, but several teams in the cap era have been to 3 cup finals in 9 years or less.

Blackhawks
Penguins
Lightning
Panthers

So I'm not sure what this says other than 'Vegas is good', which we all surely already knew...

Big difference is an expansion team gets a mish mash of cast offs no other team wants. All the teams you listed have been around and already have their rosters set with all stars or top draft picks leading the charge. All those teams have had their share of struggling years before becoming good. Vegas started off with 109 pts and the finals in year one.

Vegas' best starting players were MAF and William Karlsson.