2nd Line Center Question

[MarkovsKnee]

Probably trade for quality center at draft. A top 2 center hard to find. Even if we draft a Misa or Desnoyers they are three years from helping us. Dach has no durable, don't rely on him

Misa is not 3 years away. He's in NHL next year for sure. Desnoyers defensive game is so good he's probably only 1-2 years away.

We also already have Hage who is another year away from turning pro. I expect him to play another NCAA year.

Beck should be in NHL next year.

 

[Vachon23]

We will know what is available when next season start. Habs only have 8 players signed for Seguin's last contract year. They have 7-8 spots to fill next season (contract extension, prospects, new acquisitions), and 7-8 again the year after.

Hughes has pretty much filled the cap space as it was created. Also, Andy/Gally are still on the roster (last season).

We will have many ELC At that time but to be honest that’s far from being my plan A, but it’s an option I would consider since they won’t be a lot of option for a top 6 center

 

[Deebs]

I really liked what I was seeing in Dach pre injury, both offensively and and all over the 200 feet of the ice.

So I really hope he can fully recover from his injury. There's no guarantee. And, it could end up taking even a few years.

The problem is, for this season, we desperately needed a 2c, and he would have been by far the best option. Not his fault that he's not. Hopefully he can find a role as he tries to get his game back.

My money is on Laine being the best option at 2c for the second half of the season. But finding and discovering Laine's best position and linemates will also be a process I would imagine.

We no longer need a #2C for this year unfortunately, we're a lottery team. So what we should do is continue to let Kirby get his minutes at Center and see how he does for the entirety of the year. The long offseason will give him lots of time to get all of his workouts in and be fully ready for camp.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't look at all our options during the summer to better the team at that position though. Trades, offersheets, etc.... Everything should be on the table.

Laine is not and has never been a Center. There's no reason to play him there.

 

[WeThreeKings]

He skates with the puck in the offensive zone, does nothing with it, then waits for Gudaz to reach him to pad his hit stats, achieving nothing. Did he try crashing the net? Nope. Did he even attempt a shot? Neither. It's either not a good example of Dach's worth, or exactly what the problem is with him.

I don't want losers like this on the team. Sorry for you, your idol is just a nothing player at the moment. Not that I ever thought he was anything more than a nothing player personally.

I'd take Rene Bourque or Lhars Eller over him any day.

This might be one of the worst posts I've ever read on this site.. wow.

 

[vokiel]

Maybe we have our 2nd line centre (Suzuki), what we need is to draft our 1st line centre (Misa or Hagens)

Suzuki is a 1st line center in this league. Maybe you folks are complicating things too much. The issue is Dach and Newhook aren't top 6 players for shit. So swap them for improved wings and you'll have your 2nd line center in Beck, Kapanen and eventually Hage.

 

[yianik]

This keeps coming up in different forms so I figured I'd create it's own thread for it here.

The Canadiens came into this season pretty confident that Dach would be their number two. So far it hasn't worked out that way and as a result the entire lineup seems off. Posters seem split on what to do with Dach himself but while he works to get his confidence back, we still remain without a true number two center. So what route do we take?

Option 1. Stay the course. Wait for Dach to find his game and tough it out. This likely results in a high pick anyway so there's an extra benefit from going this route.
Option 2. Trade for a temporary fix. We could trade for a Monahan/Malkin type and ride them for a couple of years. We'd probably go up in the standings but they could help the youngters develop.
Option 3. Trade for a more permanent solution. In this scenario we get somebody who can fill in for years at the position.

In all of these scenarios, I like the idea of keeping Dach. I think he'll regain his form even if it takes time. At the very least he'd be great to have for center depth.

I agree that we have to ride out the year with Dach. In his first year with us he got better as the season progressed, even finding his shot which a centre needs to have in order to have a good passing game. He was promising that year and unfortunately last year was a disaster. So I think he has the ability to be a 2C , he needs to get himself together mentally.

The 2C we want is ideally a young guy but of course every team wants a young and good 2C. So we need a guy who has at least 3-4 good years left so we can compete in these next 4 years.

A reason to give Dach the year is, why not ? We are not going for any Cup and while I want us to start being more competitive, its important to not give up assets for a legit 2C if we dont have to make such a trade. Why ? Aside from perhaps a starting goalie, the most significant other piece we need is a top D man, no offense to Matheson. I think Hutson is a sure no.#3 but dont know about him as top pairing. Guhle as no.2. The no.4D spot needs replacing soon as Savard is likely gone.. I dont see anybody in the system for that spot in the short term, especially the RHD. An injured Reinbacher and a year of lost development really hurts.

To get both a 2C and a top D man is very costly. So give Dach the shot, hope he figures it out as I think we will have to trade for a top RHD.

 

[Scintillating10]

Sign a faceoff artist like Giroux another option. Until Hage or Beck are mature. Kapanen also. He'd be good mentor for them.

. I don't have much faith in Dach. He's not durable and real rusty.

 

[calder candidate]

We have assets out the Yin Yang. We have extra picks, tons of prospects… that’s not a problem.

We do have asset, we have a lot of asset but we don’t have that much valuable and those are the asset we need to improve the team or out bidding playoffs team for a 2C That won’t be with the team or won’t be doing the job in 2-3 years… It isn’t worth it, it barely make sense for a playoffs team it make even less for a rebuilding team…

 

[Intangir]

We do have asset, we have a lot of asset but we don’t have that much valuable and those are the asset we need to improve the team or out bidding playoffs team for a 2C That won’t be with the team or won’t be doing the job in 2-3 years… It isn’t worth it, it barely make sense for a playoffs team it make even less for a rebuilding team…

Yep, exactly.

At this point we're better off riding what we have the rest of the way, let Dach take as many reps as he can/wants to see if he can't re-discover his confidence.

Optimally, we'd trade a couple veterans at the deadline, draft as well as we can in June, sign a couple key UFAs to get some more veteran presence, mostly on the defensive end, and then try to ice a more competitive team next year with the benefit of an added year of development for Hage, Demidov, Hutson, and company.

With a little luck we could get any of Hagens, Misa, or Schaefer, maybe Desnoyers or Frondell if we finish after the top-4, and then go from there.

 

[Scintillating10]

Need to fix right D more than center next year. Barron being a disaster and Reinbacher pushed back a year has changed things. Need to add couple guys on right D first. Matheson traded for right D. Sign another.

I would sign a vet UFA center though, like a Giroux. Gives you depth. In case Dach flunks at center next year. If not Giroux be good on third line with Gallagher and Anderson. He's faceoff specialist, around 60%. Good on draws late in games/overtime and specialty teams.
Beck make great 4th line center. He's decent on faceoffs also.

I did the math. Provided the cap goes up 4 million next year, and we trade Matheson? We overloaded on left side. Savard, Dvorak, Evans, Armia not re-signed. Price goes on LTIR. Gives us around 66 million in payroll. So, 6 million to Giroux. Leaves us around 20 million to fix right D.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

We do have asset, we have a lot of asset but we don’t have that much valuable and those are the asset we need to improve the team or out bidding playoffs team for a 2C That won’t be with the team or won’t be doing the job in 2-3 years… It isn’t worth it, it barely make sense for a playoffs team it make even less for a rebuilding team…

I don’t follow. I think we’ve got tons to trade with. Picks are valuable assets for any team. Matheson is expendable. We’ve got tons of prospects to work with. Lots we can deal with.

 

[BLONG7]

Need to fix right D more than center next year. Barron being a disaster and Reinbacher pushed back a year has changed things. Need to add couple guys on right D first. Matheson traded for right D. Sign another.

I would sign a vet UFA center though, like a Giroux. Gives you depth. In case Dach flunks at center next year. If not Giroux be good on third line with Gallagher and Anderson. He's faceoff specialist, around 60%. Good on draws late in games/overtime and specialty teams.
Beck make great 4th line center. He's decent on faceoffs also.

I did the math. Provided the cap goes up 4 million next year, and we trade Matheson? We overloaded on left side. Savard, Dvorak, Evans, Armia not re-signed. Price goes on LTIR. Gives us around 66 million in payroll. So, 6 million to Giroux. Leaves us around 20 million to fix right D.

Getting creative with all the cap space will be fun for HuGo but it will still be a huge challenge....can the Habs actually attract a star UFA type of player?? Or, do they still have to trade for one?

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Ride it out

 

[Sorinth]

Need to fix right D more than center next year. Barron being a disaster and Reinbacher pushed back a year has changed things. Need to add couple guys on right D first. Matheson traded for right D. Sign another.

I would sign a vet UFA center though, like a Giroux. Gives you depth. In case Dach flunks at center next year. If not Giroux be good on third line with Gallagher and Anderson. He's faceoff specialist, around 60%. Good on draws late in games/overtime and specialty teams.
Beck make great 4th line center. He's decent on faceoffs also.

I did the math. Provided the cap goes up 4 million next year, and we trade Matheson? We overloaded on left side. Savard, Dvorak, Evans, Armia not re-signed. Price goes on LTIR. Gives us around 66 million in payroll. So, 6 million to Giroux. Leaves us around 20 million to fix right D.

2 veteran RD seems both a little extreme and extremely unlikely given that the whole league is always looking for RD who can play in your top-4. If we can get 1 legitimate top-4 RD then I would be more then happy.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Need to fix right D more than center next year. Barron being a disaster and Reinbacher pushed back a year has changed things. Need to add couple guys on right D first. Matheson traded for right D. Sign another.

I would sign a vet UFA center though, like a Giroux. Gives you depth. In case Dach flunks at center next year. If not Giroux be good on third line with Gallagher and Anderson. He's faceoff specialist, around 60%. Good on draws late in games/overtime and specialty teams.
Beck make great 4th line center. He's decent on faceoffs also.

I did the math. Provided the cap goes up 4 million next year, and we trade Matheson? We overloaded on left side. Savard, Dvorak, Evans, Armia not re-signed. Price goes on LTIR. Gives us around 66 million in payroll. So, 6 million to Giroux. Leaves us around 20 million to fix right D.

LOL, keep Matheson and just need $15M for one D-man.

 

[calder candidate]

I don’t follow. I think we’ve got tons to trade with. Picks are valuable assets for any team. Matheson is expendable. We’ve got tons of prospects to work with. Lots we can deal with.

What will a 2nd line C cost \ what a legit 2nd cost?
We are looking at 1st+2nd for a guy like Dvorak, we have ton of prospects and pick but only a few of them are valuable? we have picks but we need those top60 pick the rest is good but 3x3rd isn’t getting you anything in a trade. If you are making a trade you Will have to out bid playoffs team (which can over pay with futur) with your offre…

Harris was expendable, Matheson isn’t, you can trade him but if you trade him you need to win that trade if you don’t you aren’t improving.

 

[Egresch]

Harris was expendable, Matheson isn’t, you can trade him but if you trade him you need to win that trade if you don’t you aren’t improving.

We do not need Matheson, so he is definitely expendable. Guhle and Hutson show they can handle top 4 minutes and we still have Struble and Xhekaj for left side. If we can trade Matheson for RHD, we do not need to win that trade for sure.

 

[JoelWarlord]

For this season it makes sense to ride it out but you have to start looking at other options. I think we'll end up signing a stopgap unless Dach really turns it on in the second half. I think we'll "overpay" Bennett on a deal that ends up being fine when the cap is over 100 million in a couple seasons.

 

[calder candidate]

We do not need Matheson, so he is definitely expendable. Guhle and Hutson show they can handle top 4 minutes and we still have Struble and Xhekaj for left side. If we can trade Matheson for RHD, we do not need to win that trade for sure.

I agree that he could be traded but, The point of trading is to improve the team… and regardless of what some people think of Matheson he play a big role and he is a legit top 4 D and has significant trade value (might be our most valuable trade asset). If we trade Matheson for a guy that can’t play top 4D or top 6FW it would be a set back and awful asset management.
People looking to trade to acquire an establish 2C yet you trade the only vet presence on D (Savard is gone at the TDL) you need to improve somewhere else.

 

[Egresch]

Matheson he play a big role and he is a legit top 4 D and has significant trade value (might be our most valuable trade asset)

I agree, Matheson is the most valuable asset we have. We could even retain 50% of his salary and he would be the most wanted D on the market. However, if we could trade him for top 4 RHD, someone like Cernak, that would be great for the team.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

You stay the course.
I believe Dach will rebound. If not this season, then next season.

If he doesn't, then we have Hage who should be in the nhl after next season. He is trending very well, and could be ready for a top 6 center role as soon as the 26-27 season.

 

[calder candidate]

I agree, Matheson is the most valuable asset we have. We could even retain 50% of his salary and he would be the most wanted D on the market. However, if we could trade him for top 4 RHD, someone like Cernak, that would be great for the team.

Yes but how many team have too many RD and looking to get a LD, Also if there willing to trade a RD they are looking to trade the odd man out not the guy we would want…
Even a guy like Cernak, (I think he is good) but also he is good on a good team pretty sure you can get a Cernak type D on the UFA or for a lot less than Matheson at 50%.