Salary Cap: 24-25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume MXVI: End of season wrap up

[Jag68Sid87]

How is Malkin's contract ending badly? Let's see what happens for a second-line center after he is gone. I just don't get the disrespect toward 71.

It is as if some people believe Mike Sullivan was not a reason for his relative lack of production, which is still on par for a second-line center even at age 39!

Give me a break. If only all of this team's "problems" were as benign as Malkin.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

The Habs run to the Finals was the year AFTER they embarrassed the Pens.

They were in that Canadian division designed to give Toronto a free run to the Finals. Oops!

Ahhhhhhh that's right... my bad.

Well in that case the Penguins didn't have even a FLIMSY excuse to not do anything but just sorta shrug.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

How is Malkin's contract ending badly? Let's see what happens for a second-line center after he is gone. I just don't get the disrespect toward 71.

It is as if some people believe Mike Sullivan was not a reason for his relative lack of production, which is still on par for a second-line center even at age 39!

Give me a break. If only all of this team's "problems" were as benign as Malkin.

He was fine... up to this season.

Dude was like watching depression incarnate on skates this year. It's over. I don't think it could be any clearer.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Dallas' scouting, drafting and development went on a f***ing insane run from 2015 with Hintz, 2017 with Heiskanen, Otter, Robertson, 2019 with Harley, and 2021 with Johnston and Stankoven.

That's the model we should be emulating. Trying to be the upper echelon with regard to scouting, drafting and development. You can find guys in FA and via trade, but having a constant pipeline of significant players come up through the system is huge.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Dallas' scouting, drafting and development went on a f***ing insane run from 2015 with Hintz, 2017 with Heiskanen, Otter, Robertson, 2019 with Harley, and 2021 with Johnston and Stankoven.

That's the model we should be emulating. Trying to be the upper echelon with regard to scouting, drafting and development. You can find guys in FA and via trade, but having a constant pipeline of significant players come up through the system is huge.

Yeah that 2017 draft with Dallas was one of the best drafts ever for a team in the cap era. Hitting on a franchise defenseman, a franchise winger and a franchise goalie all in the same draft is insanity.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

He was fine... up to this season.

Dude was like watching depression incarnate on skates this year. It's over. I don't think it could be any clearer.

Let's see what the new coach can do. When you take away his best traits (power play), 67 points is almost a miracle on a Sullivan team.

The all-time greats are all-time greats for a reason. I still have hope.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Let's see what the new coach can do. When you take away his best traits (power play), 67 points is almost a miracle on a Sullivan team.

The all-time greats are all-time greats for a reason. I still have hope.

Plenty of all time greats have gone out like a mouse. Crosby won't... Malkin will. It happens.

A coach isn't going to fix him being slow, reckless like he's still in his 20s and having no shot anymore.

Also he sure didn't have 67 points THIS year. Dude barely even cracked 15 goals FFS.

Sullivan did him no favors but the much-ballyhooed and often-talked-about Malkin resurgence ain't happenin' regardless of who is behind the bench.

 

[eXile3]

Besides Heiskanen I don’t think Dallas has a top 5 pick?

Both them and the Winnipeg have done a good job at building contenders without consistently tanking.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I don't think guys of Geno's caliber ever really lose their hands, vision or shot. They just lose the legs/stamina. Geno could still absolutely be a productive, useful player, but this team cannot and shouldn't invest in surrounding him (or Sid, for that matter) with the legit, high end talent they need for this team to be anything anymore.

They shouldn't even still have Rakell on the roster, and by the time the TDL rolls around next March, they shouldn't have any of Rakell, Rust or EK. But I'm sure they'll be unable to relinquish their death grip on Extra Special Boy Bryan Rust.

Besides Heiskanen I don’t think Dallas has a top 5 pick?

Both them and the Winnipeg have done a good job at building contenders without consistently tanking.

Several of their big time guys weren't even 1st rounders. To say they've done exceptionally well is an understatement imo.

 

[wej20]

Besides Heiskanen I don’t think Dallas has a top 5 pick?

Both them and the Winnipeg have done a good job at building contenders without consistently tanking.

They've had some huge hits on lateish 1sts and 2nd rounders.

2022 - Lian Bichsel 18th overall
2021 - Wyatt Johntson 23rd overall
2021 - Logan Stankoven 47th overall
2020 - Mavrik Borque 30th overall
2019 - Thomas Harley 18th overall
2017 - Miro Heiskanen 3rd overall
2017 - Jake Oettinger 26th overall
2017 - Jason Robertson 39th overall
2015 - Roope Hintz 49th overall

I mean apart from Stankoven, Bishel and Bourque those are all 1st line/top pairing/start goalie level players who have been drafted outside top 15 save Heiskanen.

 

[Empoleon8771]

They've had some huge hits on lateish 1sts and 2nd rounders.

2022 - Lian Bichsel 18th overall
2021 - Wyatt Johntson 23rd overall
2021 - Logan Stankoven 47th overall
2020 - Mavrik Borque 30th overall
2019 - Thomas Harley 18th overall
2017 - Miro Heiskanen 3rd overall
2017 - Jake Oettinger 26th overall
2017 - Jason Robertson 39th overall
2015 - Roope Hintz 49th overall

I mean apart from Stankoven, Bishel and Bourque those are all 1st line/top pairing/start goalie level players who have been drafted outside top 15 save Heiskanen.

And all of those guys are still NHLers despite being depth guys too. They're not drafting complete whiffs like Pouliot and Poulin.

 

[SEALBound]

Besides Heiskanen I don’t think Dallas has a top 5 pick?

Both them and the Winnipeg have done a good job at building contenders without consistently tanking.

Dallas scout just had a crystal ball for 2017, 2019-2022.

2017 - Heiskanen, Oettinger, and Robertson
2019 - Harley
2020 - Bourque
2021 - Johnson, Stankoven
2022 - Bischel

I mean, 8 NHL roster players include three core players (Heisky, Robertson, Johnson)...f*** me.

Yes. YES! THAT is the "model" I want us to emulate.

 

[wej20]

And all of those guys are still NHLers despite being depth guys too. They're not drafting complete whiffs like Pouliot and Poulin.

They drafted Ty Dellandrea at 13th overall who will probably end up in the Poulin and Pouliot camp of being a good AHLer who'll get NHL games (To be fair Dellandrea already has 200 games but his numbers are crappy outside of one season). The vast majority of their top 60 picks from 2017-2022 have been studs.

 

[SEALBound]

They've had some huge hits on lateish 1sts and 2nd rounders.

2022 - Lian Bichsel 18th overall
2021 - Wyatt Johntson 23rd overall
2021 - Logan Stankoven 47th overall
2020 - Mavrik Borque 30th overall
2019 - Thomas Harley 18th overall
2017 - Miro Heiskanen 3rd overall
2017 - Jake Oettinger 26th overall
2017 - Jason Robertson 39th overall
2015 - Roope Hintz 49th overall

I mean apart from Stankoven, Bishel and Bourque those are all 1st line/top pairing/start goalie level players who have been drafted outside top 15 save Heiskanen.

Didn't see this before I posted mine but yet. This.

THEN they parlayed Stankoven and 2 1sts for Rantanen.

 

[plaidchuck]

Kind of wonder if the Caps even make the playoffs once their shooting percentage goes back to the average

 

[wej20]

Just looking back at their run, they pretty much picked the best player at every spot, I'm going to ignore Bichsel as it is still relatively early.

Wyatt Johnston - Would go 1st overall in the re-draft
Stankoven - Knies at 57th but I do really like Stankoven and think he'll have a long career as a top 6 forward.
Mavrik Borque - JJ Petreka at 34th or Brock Faber at 45th
Thomas Harley - Best pick
Miro Heisknanen - Could have had Makar but still a great pick
Jake Oettinger - Best pick
Jason Robertson - Got one of the best forwards in the draft in the 2nd round
Roope Hintz - Best pick

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

We joke but having a tenured coach with a locked-on philosophy and system absolutely effects drafting to a degree and development for sure.

People can pretend that the team ONLY drafts "BPA" but "BPA" is in the eyes of the beholder and all that.

It's true. I mean, if you're scouting two kids, one of them plays a two-way game (and PKs!!!) but has limited upside, while the other is an offensive dynamo but with questions of his consistency in his own end, and you have a coach like Sullivan around forever, what prospect of the two are you going to draft? The one who actually has a chance of being utilized by the coach.

 

[Empoleon8771]

It's true. I mean, if you're scouting two kids, one of them plays a two-way game (and PKs!!!) but has limited upside, while the other is an offensive dynamo but with questions of his consistency in his own end, and you have a coach like Sullivan around forever, what prospect of the two are you going to draft? The one who actually has a chance of being utilized by the coach.

Nah this isn't the actual issue with their drafting track record. JR just whiffed on a ton of picks and went off the board for guys he thought were good but ended up being nothing.

In JR's drafts from 2016 onwards, he drafted Gustavsson, Bjorkqvist, Hall, Lauzon, Phillips, Addison, Hallander, Poulin and Legare with their 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks. That's just bad drafting by JR, that's not drafting players to fit Sullivan's system. Bjorkqvist is really the only guy that even fits that description of that group, while Addison is the complete opposite of that.

JR's drafting was a lot more about beefing up the Penguins and adding size/physicality than it was about trying to draft PKers that fit the Penguins system.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

I still giggle at the name Stankoven.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

Ahhhhhhh that's right... my bad.

Well in that case the Penguins didn't have even a FLIMSY excuse to not do anything but just sorta shrug.

There's been so many playoff failures since 2017 that they tend to get confusing.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I will say, I think GMs get too much credit *and* flak for draft picks. Particularly after 1st rounders. I know that final say falls to the GM, but GMs can't be out there scouting amateur leagues, especially overseas. Way too much to do and take care of in the day to day of NHL work. The Pens' decade long shitshow as far as drafting goes is an indictment of the scouting dept imo, and the failure to produce really anything at all at this level is an indictment of their organizational development and coaching.

Hopefully those three main facets really pull a 180 moving forward here. Cannot hope to do anything with such dogshit scouting, drafting, and development/coaching.

 

[The Old Master]

He was fine... up to this season.

Dude was like watching depression incarnate on skates this year. It's over. I don't think it could be any clearer.

if it was an off ice related problem, he could be good to go next year. unno:

 

[Empoleon8771]

I will say, I think GMs get too much credit *and* flak for draft picks. Particularly after 1st rounders. I know that final say falls to the GM, but GMs can't be out there scouting amateur leagues, especially overseas. Way too much to do and take care of in the day to day of NHL work. The Pens' decade long shitshow as far as drafting goes is an indictment of the scouting dept imo, and the failure to produce really anything at all at this level is an indictment of their organizational development and coaching.

Hopefully those three main facets really pull a 180 moving forward here. Cannot hope to do anything with such dogshit scouting, drafting, and development/coaching.

Yeah I think it was during Shero's time that it came out that Shero was in charge of the 1st rounders but every other pick was up to the scouting director and regional scouts. I know they made a big deal out of the scout that wanted to draft Guentzel back in 2013 and spent a ton of time looking at him:

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/joe-starkey/2017/06/28/jake-guentzel-draft-scott-bell-minnesota-hockey-penguins/stories/201706280172

This isn't like EHM or OOTP where a GM looks at the potential ratings page of all of the prospects available. A GM is taking the word of his amateur scouts with these prospects, a GM doesn't have time to scout every single prospect that they may take in a draft. If you have shitty scouts, you're going to make shitty picks.

 

[Pancakes]

The Pens' decade long shitshow as far as drafting goes is an indictment of the scouting dept imo,

Pens have actually drafted pretty well imo.

They just haven't had many picks. But I mean finding guys like Jake, Murray, Rust, etc with the picks we did have is pretty good work.

The reason our system has been barren isn't because our scouts suck but because we've spent like 99% of Sid's career trading the majority of our picks to try and chase cups. And given we won 3, I'd say that was a worthy sacrifice to make.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Pens have actually drafted pretty well imo.

They just haven't had many picks. But I mean finding guys like Jake, Murray, Rust, etc with the picks we did have is pretty good work.

The reason our system has been barren isn't because our scouts suck but because we've spent like 99% of Sid's career trading the majority of our picks to try and chase cups. And given we won 3, I'd say that was a worthy sacrifice to make.

Those were 2013, 2012, and 2010 respectively. This team absolutely has not, by any metric, drafted pretty well for a decade.