Salary Cap: 24-25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume MXVI: End of season wrap up

[Sidney the Kidney]

I think there are some good things to be learned from the Capitals turning it around like that and of course they should be commended for.

I don't know that I'd build a whole MODEL around it or call it some kind of archetype. That seems to be overgilding the lily a bit to me.

Where Washington should be commended was they were willing to fire their coach, despite him having a Stanley Cup ring in his past, when it was obvious he wasn't cutting it, and replacing him with a younger coach with new ideas.

That's literally the one area I envied them.

 

[JackFr]

Letang's (and Malkin's) deal was always going to end poorly. I think even the people that supported it at the time realized that. But it was to lower the cap hit for the last couple remaining years they had a chance to compete. They just squandered those years.

That's right. With how well Crosby/Malkin/Letang were still playing up until 2024 there is zero reason this team shouldn't have been seriously competing. Unfortunately for some reason our management was deadset on making the team older around them instead of younger, which is what the Caps did.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Where Washington should be commended was they were willing to fire their coach, despite him having a Stanley Cup ring in his past, when it was obvious he wasn't cutting it, and replacing him with a younger coach with new ideas.

That's literally the one area I envied them.

I envy their ability to draft literally anything better than just "depth flotsam and jetsam" too. But mostly that, yes.

 

[JackFr]

I mean, these are the draft picks chosen after 2012 on their playoff roster.

Ryan Leonard - 2023 1st (8)
Connor McMichael - 2019 1st (25)
Alex Alexeyev - 2018 1st (31)
Martin Fehervary - 2018 2nd (46)
Aliaksei Protas - 2019 3rd (91)

Other than Leonard, who was a non-factor, it's a bunch of guys in mid-round draft slots. We absolutely could have executed this retool starting after the Cups to keep the core sustainable if we weren't run by morons.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I mean, these are the draft picks chosen after 2012 on their playoff roster.

Ryan Leonard - 2023 1st (8)
Connor McMichael - 2019 1st (25)
Alex Alexeyev - 2018 1st (31)
Martin Fehervary - 2018 2nd (46)
Aliaksei Protas - 2019 3rd (91)

Other than Leonard, who was a non-factor, it's a bunch of guys in mid-round draft slots. We absolutely could have executed this retool starting after the Cups to keep the core sustainable if we weren't run by morons.

"The Penguins can't be blamed for their poor drafting record the last decade because they just didn't have enough first rounders!"

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I envy their ability to draft literally anything better than just "depth flotsam and jetsam" too. But mostly that, yes.

When you have a coach who wants a bunch of depth flotsam and jetsam in his lineup over skill, maybe the drafting was on purpose.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

When you have a coach who wants a bunch of depth flotsam and jetsam in his lineup over skill, maybe the drafting was on purpose.

We joke but having a tenured coach with a locked-on philosophy and system absolutely effects drafting to a degree and development for sure.

People can pretend that the team ONLY drafts "BPA" but "BPA" is in the eyes of the beholder and all that.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I mean, if the key to remaining in contention is taking advantage of the loopholes, then why are we standing around like dweebs?

what Dubas can do to get players to LTIR and contract termination.

I mean, he can ask Letang if maybe three strokes and a heart attack is enough? But I’m not even blaming Dubas here, I’m saying we need to learn from the Caps because if we have these opportunities we should take them. This dumb yinzer schtick of refusing to learn from our rivals is only shooting us in the dick.

 

[HandshakeLine]

We joke but having a tenured coach with a locked-on philosophy and system absolutely effects drafting to a degree and development for sure.

People can pretend that the team ONLY drafts "BPA" but "BPA" is in the eyes of the beholder and all that.

Yeah, these are not air gapped systems. It’s also why I really hope we get a coach by the draft because we should be making trades and beginning to execute the coach and GM’s visions, not half assing it for a few more years.

Even if the plan is to tank, you need to have that understanding in place with the new coach before things get too far along.

 

[JackFr]

Our core + Washington's management probably gets us at least one Cup between 2019 and 2024

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yeah, these are not air gapped systems. It’s also why I really hope we get a coach by the draft because we should be making trades and beginning to execute the coach and GM’s visions, not half assing it for a few more years.

Even if the plan is to tank, you need to have that understanding in place with the new coach before things get too far along.

It would be nice to run a well-prepared and meaningful training camp for once, yes.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Our core + Washington's management probably gets us at least one Cup between 2019 and 2024

I don’t know if it’s that guaranteed but at least there would have been actual changes after shitting the bed during the play-in.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Getting smacked around in the play-in by Montreal should have been a pretty clear indication that things needed to change.

But then the Habs went on a miracle run to the Finals and you could just HEAR the Penguins FO rationalizing their way into standing pat from all the way over here in shitty ass Eastern Ohio.

I still roll my eyes pretty hard when people count that as part of their playoff streak. I get that circumstances were weird but this isn't the Pittsburgh Pirates where we need to dress up every minor accomplishment like they just won the pennant. Or at least shouldn't be.

 

[Turin]

I mean, these are the draft picks chosen after 2012 on their playoff roster.

Ryan Leonard - 2023 1st (8)
Connor McMichael - 2019 1st (25)
Alex Alexeyev - 2018 1st (31)
Martin Fehervary - 2018 2nd (46)
Aliaksei Protas - 2019 3rd (91)

Other than Leonard, who was a non-factor, it's a bunch of guys in mid-round draft slots. We absolutely could have executed this retool starting after the Cups to keep the core sustainable if we weren't run by morons.

Team had way too much turnover which really slowed down any process or overarching vision imo.

JR rage quits because he got into a fight with Morehouse or something, Hextall is hired by lame duck ownership who cash out, then Dubas is brought in under the FSG pretence that Sullivan is great and the team needs to go for it. None of it was organic.

 

[Pens x]

Now that Sully left, hopefully Dubas stops making horrible signings and won’t have to focus on midget, North American forwards, that are incapable or scoring.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I'd be careful, with certain acquisitions, look at PLD and his 3 assists in 10 playoff games for the Caps for example.. All depends on what the cost is, I still don't think we are in any shape or form to start dealing 1st round picks here ...

Don't let @Gurglesons see this post.

 

[plaidchuck]

Here we go again pumping Washington this year which was clearly an anomaly Let’s aim higher than that fellas.

 

[K Fleur]

This board crowning Brunicke as the next Letang after a couple preseason games let’s me know he’s probably gonna end up as nothing Lol

 

[SEALBound]

Where Washington should be commended was they were willing to fire their coach, despite him having a Stanley Cup ring in his past, when it was obvious he wasn't cutting it, and replacing him with a younger coach with new ideas.

That's literally the one area I envied them.

I'll add "before it was too late". Their core's wheels falling off early kicked it into gear as well. I'm betting if Letang retired after the second stroke and Malkin when on LTIRetire last year or the year before, Hextall/Dubas would have been forced to make different moves. OR tear it all down and start the rebuild early.

I mean, these are the draft picks chosen after 2012 on their playoff roster.

Ryan Leonard - 2023 1st (8)
Connor McMichael - 2019 1st (25)
Alex Alexeyev - 2018 1st (31)
Martin Fehervary - 2018 2nd (46)
Aliaksei Protas - 2019 3rd (91)

Other than Leonard, who was a non-factor, it's a bunch of guys in mid-round draft slots. We absolutely could have executed this retool starting after the Cups to keep the core sustainable if we weren't run by morons.

We used those picks to get win now players. Now it's after the win now period and we have regret. I'm tempted to say "you can't have it both ways" because I look at teams that made MAJOR moves this year that are doing well - Florida, Dallas, and Carolina to name a few - and I'm sure most fans are happy to have paid those prices.

At the same time, you go back and look at several 2nd and 3rd round picks between 2015 and 2022-ish and its a bunch of nobodies. What you need right now is:

• Connor Hall being a big physical D on the 3rd pairing meaning we don't have Graves
• Bjorkqvist being a mini-Hornqvist on the 3rd line
• Gustavsson being our 1G with Jarry or Clang as the backup
• Zach Lauzon being a reliable 2nd/3rd pairing PMD
• Calen Addison being a reliable 2nd/3rd pairing PMD
• Hallander being a bottom 6 center
• Poulin being a middle 6 wing
• Spring being a top line wing

Now obviously ALL of them working out is unrealistic, I get that, but NONE of them working out forcing us to spend assets or make big FA deals elsewhere has had a detrimental effect that is now festering.

Team had way too much turnover which really slowed down any process or overarching vision imo.

JR rage quits because he got into a fight with Morehouse or something, Hextall is hired by lame duck ownership who cash out, then Dubas is brought in under the FSG pretence that Sullivan is great and the team needs to go for it. None of it was organic.

Was it ever reported who JR was looking to trade and to who for what? I thought it was Letang but I also remember something around 2011/2012 that the Flyers wanted to do Simmonds+Voracek for Letang. I think about that from time to time. Could have kept Martin and had Niskanen grow into a bigger role.

If JR would have traded Letang out in 2022...what then?

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

Getting smacked around in the play-in by Montreal should have been a pretty clear indication that things needed to change.

But then the Habs went on a miracle run to the Finals and you could just HEAR the Penguins FO rationalizing their way into standing pat from all the way over here in shitty ass Eastern Ohio.

I still roll my eyes pretty hard when people count that as part of their playoff streak. I get that circumstances were weird but this isn't the Pittsburgh Pirates where we need to dress up every minor accomplishment like they just won the pennant. Or at least shouldn't be.

The Habs run to the Finals was the year AFTER they embarrassed the Pens.

They were in that Canadian division designed to give Toronto a free run to the Finals. Oops!

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think the Washington "model" is actually the Dallas Stars "model", but Dallas just doesn't get credit for it for some reason. Which is really weird because Dallas is actually a legitimate top contender now and clearly demonstrated how to transition from an aging, mediocre team to a top young contender without relying on high draft picks.

In the 2016-2020 window, Dallas was a good but not great team led by older guys like Benn, Seguin, Bishop, Radulov and Pavelski. The only really notable young guy they had was Lindell, everyone else was just a depth guy like Faksa and Nichushkin (who stunk in Dallas if you remember). But they just kept drafting well and gradually adding more and more good talent to the team, with first adding Hintz and Heiskanen near the end of that window and then consistently adding 1-2 "core" level young players basically every season. Now they have an entire core of top young guys that they drafted, plus they're able to add to it externally with guys like Rantanen because of how good of a job they have done.

Dubas is calling it the Capitals model because they're the most recent team to do it, but what he's really trying to recreate is how the Stars built up their contender. Get a lot of picks, draft well and then be aggressive to add NHL talent with the assets/prospects you've collected when you get the chance.

 

[Turin]

I'll add "before it was too late". Their core's wheels falling off early kicked it into gear as well. I'm betting if Letang retired after the second stroke and Malkin when on LTIRetire last year or the year before, Hextall/Dubas would have been forced to make different moves. OR tear it all down and start the rebuild early.

We used those picks to get win now players. Now it's after the win now period and we have regret. I'm tempted to say "you can't have it both ways" because I look at teams that made MAJOR moves this year that are doing well - Florida, Dallas, and Carolina to name a few - and I'm sure most fans are happy to have paid those prices.

At the same time, you go back and look at several 2nd and 3rd round picks between 2015 and 2022-ish and its a bunch of nobodies. What you need right now is:

• Connor Hall being a big physical D on the 3rd pairing meaning we don't have Graves
• Bjorkqvist being a mini-Hornqvist on the 3rd line
• Gustavsson being our 1G with Jarry or Clang as the backup
• Zach Lauzon being a reliable 2nd/3rd pairing PMD
• Calen Addison being a reliable 2nd/3rd pairing PMD
• Hallander being a bottom 6 center
• Poulin being a middle 6 wing
• Spring being a top line wing

Now obviously ALL of them working out is unrealistic, I get that, but NONE of them working out forcing us to spend assets or make big FA deals elsewhere has had a detrimental effect that is now festering.

Was it ever reported who JR was looking to trade and to who for what? I thought it was Letang but I also remember something around 2011/2012 that the Flyers wanted to do Simmonds+Voracek for Letang. I think about that from time to time. Could have kept Martin and had Niskanen grow into a bigger role.

If JR would have traded Letang out in 2022...what then?

No details have been divulged but JR said this week in an interview that he was going stir crazy from Covid and got into a heated exchange with somebody in the org and rage quit because he wasn’t thinking clearly.

 

[Gurglesons]

Don't let @Gurglesons see this post.

Yeah it’s much better to spend 5 mil on a goalie who was banished to the shadow realm then it is to spend 8.5 on a 2C that made the 2nd round.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I think the Washington "model" is actually the Dallas Stars "model", but Dallas just doesn't get credit for it for some reason. Which is really weird because Dallas is actually a legitimate top contender now and clearly demonstrated how to transition from an aging, mediocre team to a top young contender without relying on high draft picks.

In the 2016-2020 window, Dallas was a good but not great team led by older guys like Benn, Seguin, Bishop, Radulov and Pavelski. The only really notable young guy they had was Lindell, everyone else was just a depth guy like Faksa and Nichushkin (who stunk in Dallas if you remember). But they just kept drafting well and gradually adding more and more good talent to the team, with first adding Hintz and Heiskanen near the end of that window and then consistently adding 1-2 "core" level young players basically every season. Now they have an entire core of top young guys that they drafted, plus they're able to add to it externally with guys like Rantanen because of how good of a job they have done.

Dubas is calling it the Capitals model because they're the most recent team to do it, but what he's really trying to recreate is how the Stars built up their contender. Get a lot of picks, draft well and then be aggressive to add NHL talent with the assets/prospects you've collected when you get the chance.

Don't you think the Kings are similar as well?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Don't you think the Kings are similar as well?

To an extent yeah but I think the Kings have done a clearly worse job than the Stars did.

Outside of Byfield and Kempe, the Kings young guys are pretty underwhelming.