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Salary Cap: 24-25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume MXVI: End of season wrap up

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Dubas will move to add to the system in the draft and of course what he gets back in deals. The coaching hire will reflect the need for development and not a bunch of veterans to give the new coach a way to lean on the Hayes and Heinens that go no where. Look Malkin in gone after this coming season and Pens will need a center to go with Koivunen and Rakell.

McGroarty Sid Trade or FA
Koivunen Malkin Rakell
Broz Novak Tomasino
 
I think what this draft lottery shows is that they gotta be bad. For at least 2 years.

IMO even if you can’t get top 3– completely fine to draft 4th or 5th or 6th.

You gotta be excellent at drafting to build with 9th, 11th, 14th picks. Hopefully we get lucky this year but I don’t want to bet we can draft better than everyone else from that range.

Everyone focuses on Raks, Rust, EK but imo you gotta take Jarry out back. FOs tank. Players dont. Getting trash goaltending matters. We gotta kneecap the goalie room. Because I can see him going All Star mode for the first 3 months next year given expectations are pretty much zero.
 
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I think everyone realizes that this team will almost definitely not sign Marner and also will likely not trade Rust or Rakell. It's pretty likely that their top-9 will be some sort of mixture of:

Koivunen-Crosby-Rust
McGroarty-Malkin-Rakell
XXXX-Novak-Tomasino

I'd like Hallander to be that 3rd line LW right now, but I figure Dubas adds someone in free agency or trade to fill that spot. But that's boring to talk about, so why not talk about Marner instead :laugh:

If I had to bet on their off-season moves, I'd say:

1. Karlsson gets moved for 2026 draft picks, optimist in me says a late 1st but realist says like a 2nd and 4th.
2. They take on another cap dump to get paid, with possibly getting a young NHLer to take on the cap dump. Dumba and Bourque makes a lot of sense for this with how close to the cap Dallas is.
3. They trade for a younger LHD and give him a multi-year deal. Byram is the obvious standout here, but I think someone like Hague is more likely.

I'd be pretty surprised if they do more than this.
 
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I'm really curious as to what this next roster looks like. For as much as Dubas talks about bringing in young players, he sure has a roster of old, non-impact players. I do think there are some good young players that could be made available.

IF NYR give us their 12ov pick, I'm leaning towards: 12+63 to MON for 16+41, then send 16 to TBL for Howard. Then pray that Cole McKinney is still there at 41. Then you add Eklund most likely at the draft. Trouble then is being heavy on wing and weak down the middle. My ideal fix there is trading out both EK and Rakell, getting picks back, and sending out a package of picks for Marco Rossi and Maverick Bourque. I think from there you can really start to formulate the next gen lineup.

McG-Sid-Rust
Koivunen-Rossi-Malkin
Bourque-Novak-Howard

Then Malkin retires and you can mix and match the wings while running Sid, Rossi, Novak/Bourque down the middle. THEN...

McKenna-Sid-Eklund
McG-Rossi-Howard
Hallander-Bourque-Koivunen

If they progress well, that 2nd line would bea PITA to play against.
 
Rakell67 said:
Bennett?
Trade Acciari, Heinen, Rakell

McGroarty Crosby Marner
Malkin Bennett Rust
Hallander Novak Koivunen
Dewar Lizotte Tomasino
Hayes
Click to expand...
I'd love to the look on Sullivan's face if Dubas was willing to do that this off-season :laugh:
 
Jag68Sid87 said:
Why not trade Rust for a LD to play with Karlsson instead?

Why Rakell? He is the more prolific scorer. Do we believe the wheels will come off him more quickly than Rust? Do we believe Rakell has more value across the NHL?

Rust is the obvious player to move out if Marner decides to join Dubas. They play the same position, Rakell is way more prolific on the left side, and Rust's reputation around the league is way higher. Just ask the ex-coach.

NYR alone would offer us max prices to get their hands on the coach's pet. What do you think Guerin and Fitzgerald would offer for Rust?

He is the obvious trade chip, imo.
Click to expand...

Rust was also recently referred to as being part of the core so I doubt he's traded.
 
Controversial idea: We're not trying to win next season so there's nothing to lose. Anyone think Graves deserves a chance to turn it around in a new system? He was a passable top pair defenseman once, and has said before that he struggled to pick up this system, which shot his confidence. Maybe a new coach can get more value out of him than the cap savings to buy him out? If not the buyout happens next summer.
 
SEALBound said:
I'm really curious as to what this next roster looks like. For as much as Dubas talks about bringing in young players, he sure has a roster of old, non-impact players. I do think there are some good young players that could be made available.

IF NYR give us their 12ov pick, I'm leaning towards: 12+63 to MON for 16+41, then send 16 to TBL for Howard. Then pray that Cole McKinney is still there at 41. Then you add Eklund most likely at the draft. Trouble then is being heavy on wing and weak down the middle. My ideal fix there is trading out both EK and Rakell, getting picks back, and sending out a package of picks for Marco Rossi and Maverick Bourque. I think from there you can really start to formulate the next gen lineup.

McG-Sid-Rust
Koivunen-Rossi-Malkin
Bourque-Novak-Howard

Then Malkin retires and you can mix and match the wings while running Sid, Rossi, Novak/Bourque down the middle. THEN...

McKenna-Sid-Eklund
McG-Rossi-Howard
Hallander-Bourque-Koivunen

If they progress well, that 2nd line would bea PITA to play against.
Click to expand...
Love this, but, the defense still sucks. I'd rather use our pick on a C instead of Eklund and trade that package of picks to BUF for Byram.

McKenna Sid Koivunen
McGroarty OBrien Howard
Hallander Borque Tomasino

Byram Brunicke
Pickering Timmins
Pieniniemi Letang
Harding
 
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Posted before Hextall set up the 3 year plan contractually to move players. FSG wanted that run with the vets and Sullivan to keep cash flow going. Now the emphasis has to be adding talent. Fubas did the best deal he could with Jake unwilling to do a sign and trade. Koivunen is going to be a top 6 forward as he adds size and strength as he matures. Dubas focus is getting younger and better coached as to fit. Graves in a different ask can be OK. Key is how fast Brunicke, Pickering and others can develop. It will take at least 3 more drafts and trades to get the roster to where it needs to be. But Pens are in better shape than it has been with younger players.
 
DesertPenguin said:
Controversial idea: We're not trying to win next season so there's nothing to lose. Anyone think Graves deserves a chance to turn it around in a new system? He was a passable top pair defenseman once, and has said before that he struggled to pick up this system, which shot his confidence. Maybe a new coach can get more value out of him than the cap savings to buy him out? If not the buyout happens next summer.
Click to expand...
Yes, I expect Graves to get a shot.

I also expect us to add a flippable veteran UFA winger - Brandon Saad is a good candidate and I've been wondering whether Brad Marchand might be an option given the Sid connection...
 
JackFr said:
Yes, I expect Graves to get a shot.

I also expect us to add a flippable veteran UFA winger - Brandon Saad is a good candidate and I've been wondering whether Brad Marchand might be an option given the Sid connection...
Click to expand...
Assuming there's no miracle Marner deal, my slightly more realistic hope is Marchand on a 1 year 10MM deal. Would make it easier to move off Rust or Rakell without alienating Sid and add another very tradable asset at the deadline.
 
DesertPenguin said:
Controversial idea: We're not trying to win next season so there's nothing to lose. Anyone think Graves deserves a chance to turn it around in a new system? He was a passable top pair defenseman once, and has said before that he struggled to pick up this system, which shot his confidence. Maybe a new coach can get more value out of him than the cap savings to buy him out? If not the buyout happens next summer.
Click to expand...

Being a bit picky and semantic...

Graves doesn't deserve a chance. He blew his chance. Finding causes for optimism regarding his previous good performances have to note how much his previous partners carried him.

However, since nobody's going to take him for free or even just a modest sweetener, they might as well give him a shot at some point. It's the whole Jack Johnson logic of trying to shine a turd all over again.

But he doesn't deserve it and I really hope they find some other guys to give a go to there first.
 
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Peat said:
Being a bit picky and semantic...

Graves doesn't deserve a chance. He blew his chance. Finding causes for optimism regarding his previous good performances have to note how much his previous partners carried him.

However, since nobody's going to take him for free or even just a modest sweetener, they might as well give him a shot at some point. It's the whole Jack Johnson logic of trying to shine a turd all over again.

But he doesn't deserve it and I really hope they find some other guys to give a go to there first.
Click to expand...
He was so bad - and I kept waiting for him to get even the slightest bit better - I'm not sure in what different system he could thrive or even be passable, especially when he's likely to have a weak partner going forward.
But, as you say, the Pens are stuck, so why not pray for a miracle.
 
Graves has been like... SHOCKINGLY bad. Even within the context of THIS team under THAT coach.

Not even just good ol fashioned regulation bad... bad to the point where it's concerning. Is there something wrong with him? Is he well? Does his brain not work correctly?
 
DesertPenguin said:
Controversial idea: We're not trying to win next season so there's nothing to lose. Anyone think Graves deserves a chance to turn it around in a new system? He was a passable top pair defenseman once, and has said before that he struggled to pick up this system, which shot his confidence. Maybe a new coach can get more value out of him than the cap savings to buy him out? If not the buyout happens next summer.
Click to expand...
'Deserves' is maybe a strong word, but yes, I think he should be given another shot. Graves is just kind of a dummy and they asked him to make reads and react. Task him with clearing the crease, throwing his body in front of the puck, and throwing a couple slappers on net and I think he can still be a useful player. Still a mistake given the cap and term, but he's big, strong, and skates well for his size. He can be a fine 3LD.
 
...having said all that I think EVERYONE deserves another look on this team under a different coach. I think it's pretty safe to say certain guys were not exactly thriving in this system and I mean... that's to be expected considering how little it's changed and how predictable it is.

Like... if we're playing chess and somehow I know every move you're going to make ahead of time... I'd BETTER win right?
 
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