Salary Cap: 24-25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume MXVI: End of season wrap up

[Gurglesons]

If there is one thing this team has been good at recently, it’s taking 100 point players and making them look underwhelming.

I don’t think Marner is the type of guy you sign no matter what. I think he’s a top player, but I do not see how he fits under our timeline. He's not single handedly going to turn us into a contender.

I do not think the Columbus signing Johnny Hockey is comparable. The BJ’s have been irrelevant their entire existence. They wanted to make a splash. We are coming off of one of the most successful runs in recent professional sports history and now it’s time to rebuild.

Unless FSG just wants to be the Steelers aka, be just good enough to sell some tickets and keep peoples attentjon, but never have a chance to win anything.

Marner helps you rebuild.

 

[Gurglesons]

It's just crazy to me to throw around chasing Marner as a team that was bottom 4 at points this season, and is gonna bottom out entirely in two years once Sid retires--if not before then, if Sid takes a step back due to age/injury.

What's a 30 year old Marner matter to a team that's gonna be in the Pens' position in two years?

I say all this from the standpoint of someone who really likes Marner, and thinks it's insane that Leafs fans and that organization marches him to the gallows first whenever anything goes wrong. He's a hell of a player, but it'd be f***ing stupid for a team like the Preds to throw the bank at Marner, it's just as dumb for the Pens--maybe even more dumb.

It gives you a 100 pt winger to help insulate your young talent when Sid is gone?

 

[Empoleon8771]

If there is one thing this team has been good at recently, it’s taking 100 point players and making them look underwhelming.

I don’t think Marner is the type of guy you sign no matter what. I think he’s a top player, but I do not see how he fits under our timeline. He's not single handedly going to turn us into a contender.

I do not think the Columbus signing Johnny Hockey is comparable. The BJ’s have been irrelevant their entire existence. They wanted to make a splash. We are coming off of one of the most successful runs in recent professional sports history and now it’s time to rebuild.

Unless FSG just wants to be the Steelers aka, be just good enough to sell some tickets and keep peoples attentjon, but never have a chance to win anything.

If this team can be a stone's throw away from a top-5 pick with Crosby playing like he did last year, I don't think Marner is somehow going to prevent them from sucking into high picks down the line.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I mean... look... Dubas and the team seemed to pick it's direction last season when they plopped a buncha expensive turds into the lineup to grab a few whatever picks. That's akin to getting up on top of PPG with a giant white flag and waving it around. I hate a lot about it but it's a direction... just stick with it FFS.

Sure

And again. It’s kind of a ridiculous discussion. Dude is not coming here.

but in this theoretical world. I think you can both sign MM and continue to rebuild. You would need to jettison some pieces but i don’t see what the problem is. You are saying “this draft pick won’t matter” but then also say “don’t sign Marner”… like I don’t mean this in a dick way but how are we supposed to get any talent going forward if that is the mentality?

I just think a) he’s a great player that you take if he would come

b) it would be a helluva lot easier to develop a young C next to Marner than fading Bryan Rust.

C) I think he’ll still be a good player in 4 years when we’re trying to turn a corner

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I mean he’s 100% not coming

But I don’t agree. This isn’t the JT miller contract. You’d have him for age 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34 seasons. Realistically a guy as good as him should be pretty solid even in year 7. Not like we’re signing him until he’s 38

I don't think it really matters how well Marner's game does or doesn't age when, short of Sid declining and this team tumbling their way to McKenna and/or Dupont, they're a couple years away from settling into top 2 or 3 picks for a handful of years before things potentially start to turn around.

If this team had a better prospect pool, maaaaybe. But when McGroarty is the best guy in your system, you're a ways off from a foundation you're hopeful to build around imo. Adding Marner just gives you an expensive paperweight that'll only get worse as time drags on, and while this team's in a free fall, they still haven't hit the ground yet. /shrug

But agree, this is all just insane, boredom driven stuff because this team's decided to punt on the final decade of Sid's career. So we get to bat around Marner discourse and other dumb shit for the 5+ months of nothingness we're left with year in and year out anymore as Pens fans.

 

[SomeDude]

If this team can be a stone's throw away from a top-5 pick with Crosby playing like he did last year, I don't think Marner is somehow going to prevent them from sucking into high picks down the line.

We need to bottom out. That’s how we have built championship teams.

Some teams waste that talent like Edmonton. We historically have not. Does that mean it’s a guarantee? No, but I’d rather take my chances that way than drafting 8th every year with a slightly less than worst team in the league. That is the ticket to purgatory.

It’s all moot anyways because Marner would have to be an idiot to come here. Him being interested in signing here long term would be a red flag in itself to me. The guy is going to get paid no matter where he goes. He would be a fool to not pick a team in a better position.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Sure

And again. It’s kind of a ridiculous discussion. Dude is not coming here.

but in this theoretical world. I think you can both sign MM and continue to rebuild. You would need to jettison some pieces but i don’t see what the problem is. You are saying “this draft pick won’t matter” but then also say “don’t sign Marner”… like I don’t mean this in a dick way but how are we supposed to get any talent going forward if that is the mentality?

I just think a) he’s a great player

b) it would be a helluva easier to develop a young C next to Marner than fading Bryan Rust.

C) I think he’ll still be a good player in 4 years when we’re trying to turn a corner

You get talent by being lousy for a while and drafting/developing it.

You guys aren't wrong necessarily but signing Mitch Marner to like 14M seems like an AWFULLY huge about-face in the span of one year. If this were years ago sure. And honestly if this were years ahead when there are actually some legit young guys to work into the lineup sure but this team is just kind of in this weird in between spot right now and I truly think the best thing for now is for them to just take their medicine for a few years and get some real picks. A guy like Marner will run contrary to that and we'll likely be sitting in that crappy middle ground purgatory for way too long.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I don't think it really matters how well Marner's game does or doesn't age when, short of Sid declining and this team tumbling their way to McKenna and/or Dupont, they're a couple years away from settling into top 2 or 3 picks for a handful of years before things potentially start to turn around.

If this team had a better prospect pool, maaaaybe. But when McGroarty is the best guy in your system, you're a ways off from a foundation you're hopeful to build around imo. Adding Marner just gives you an expensive paperweight that'll only get worse as time drags on, and while this team's in a free fall, they still haven't hit the ground yet. /shrug

But agree, this is all just insane, boredom driven stuff because this team's decided to punt on the final decade of Sid's career. So we get to bat around Marner discourse and other dumb shit for the 5+ months of nothingness we're left with year in and year out anymore as Pens fans.

My thinking is more Marner is having the star version of an Armstrong or a Malone or a Whitney ready to go for the top 3 picks rather than waiting for the top 3 pick and getting lucky that Gonchar is on the market. If that makes sense.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think the only way Marner makes sense is if you genuinely believe you have a realistic shot at poaching McDavid when his deal's up. But you'd need a lot to go right in the draft the next couple years, McDavid to finally get sick of Edmonton's bullshit and going to FA, and finally McDavid to pick the Pens out of the 30 teams vying for his services.

Even then, you're still looking at complete f***all when it comes to a blueline and no depth beyond like McG-McDavid-Marner.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

A guy like Marner will run contrary to that and we'll likely be sitting in that crappy middle ground purgatory for way too long.

Yeah this is the disagreement then. just don’t think Marner is suddenly adding 10 points

Tbh I think losing EK and adding Marner, even if you didn’t trade Rust or Rakell would make this a worse team.

Look at all the guys Chicago brought in and how bad they were still. A lot of tanking is getting trash goaltending and shitty D. Were well on our way to that.

 

[SomeDude]

I think the only way Marner makes sense is if you genuinely believe you have a realistic shot at poaching McDavid when his deal's up. But you'd need a lot to go right in the draft the next couple years, McDavid to finally get sick of Edmonton's bullshit and going to FA, and finally McDavid to pick the Pens out of the 30 teams vying for his services.

Even then, you're still looking at complete f***all when it comes to a blueline and no depth beyond like McG-McDavid-Marner.

Or if this was one year from now and we just won the McKenna lottery. In the unlikely event that happens, we should treat it just like we did with Sid. Rebuild is canceled and the goal is now to contend while you hopefully have a super star on an ELC.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think the biggest argument against bringing in Marner is that this team won't make the correct moves to make bringing in Marner make sense. If this team coupled signing Marner with selling Karlsson and Rakell, continuing to rebuild and gather young assets to play below L1, then it would make complete sense to me. But they're not going to do that, I think it is unreasonable to expect a team to both sign a superstar to a mega deal while also selling other quality pieces from the team at the same time. The Capitals are probably the closest with moving on from guys like Backstrom, Oshie, Kuznetsov and Orlov and replaced them with guys like Strome, Protas, Dubois and Sandin, but that took like 3 years to do to do.

That said, Dubas saying he wants a retool like the Capitals does make me think he'd go hard after Marner this off-season. You're not signing Marner to compete next year, you're signing Marner so you're hopefully having a Capitals type of rebound for the 2027-2028 season. Basically it gives the team the 2025, 2026 and 2027 drafts to get high picks and accumulate prospects, but then intending on turning a corner in 2027. I don't know that Marner would want to sign up to be a part of that (granted I don't know how many "good" options he'll have), but it's something I can definitely see Dubas going for.

 

[Gurglesons]

Or if this was one year from now and we just won the McKenna lottery. In the unlikely event that happens, we should treat it just like we did with Sid. Rebuild is canceled and the goal is now to contend while you hopefully have a super star on an ELC.

McKenna isn't a generational player. People will be very disappointed if they expect an undersized winger to drive a championship squad like Sid or Mario did.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

My thinking is more Marner is having the star version of an Armstrong or a Malone or a Whitney ready to go for the top 3 picks rather than waiting for the top 3 pick and getting lucky that Gonchar is on the market. If that makes sense.

I don't even know that those Army/Malone/Whitney types mattered tbh. It was all luck that this team happened to land two legit NHL legends in back to back years with the 2004 and 2005 drafts. They could've had anybody. I also think Marner (especially with Sid) keeps you from settling into those top 2 or 3 draft spots, and that's crucial imo.

Like SomeGuy said; the real shame is that Marner's not available next season. If this team had already lucked into a McKenna, sure. Throw a Brinks truck at Marner and sign one of FSG's private jets over to the guy. But I think the singular, laser focus should be on being bad enough to have the best shot at McKenna and Dupont the year after.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think the biggest argument against bringing in Marner is that this team won't make the correct moves to make bringing in Marner make sense. If this team coupled signing Marner with selling Karlsson and Rakell, continuing to rebuild and gather young assets to play below L1, then it would make complete sense to me. But they're not going to do that, I think it is unreasonable to expect a team to both sign a superstar to a mega deal while also selling other quality pieces from the team at the same time. The Capitals are probably the closest with moving on from guys like Backstrom, Oshie, Kuznetsov and Orlov and replaced them with guys like Strome, Protas, Dubois and Sandin, but that took like 3 years to do to do.

That said, Dubas saying he wants a retool like the Capitals does make me think he'd go hard after Marner this off-season. You're not signing Marner to compete next year, you're signing Marner so you're hopefully having a Capitals type of rebound for the 2027-2028 season. Basically it gives the team the 2025, 2026 and 2027 drafts to get high picks and accumulate prospects, but then intending on turning a corner in 2027. I don't know that Marner would want to sign up to be a part of that (granted I don't know how many "good" options he'll have), but it's something I can definitely see Dubas going for.

You sign Marner because once again, you aren't paying assets for him.

Rangers signed Panarin and then got 1st overall.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yeah this is the disagreement then. just don’t think Marner is suddenly adding 10 points

Tbh I think losing EK and adding Marner, even if you didn’t trade Rust or Rakell would make this a worse team.

Look at all the guys Chicago brought in and how bad they were still. A lot of tanking is getting trash goaltending and shitty D. Were well on our way to that.

Yeah but I mean... the guys Chicago added were all kinda terrible, right?

I dunno I could be wrong but I definitely think MM could add ten points to the team in the standings.

lol I love you guys but ya'll are SO frustrating sometimes. I BADLY wanted to bring talent... ANY TALENT... on to this team the last few years and everyone was like "WAH WEE WAH WE GOTTA SUCK, NOW!" and here I am suddenly on the other side of the fence with you guys and now we're all like "SIKE!" Geeeez.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Rebuilding to me is about looking at your team and being like “we can’t win with these guys as our core. We gotta find guys we can win with” and really the only way to do that is with drafting high.

But if you can get a core piece like Marner for free— that is basically an extra top 3, top 5 pick added to rebuild for free. You gotta take it.

All of this is moot though. It’s kinda stupid that he’s ever consider this spot.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Yeah but I mean... the guys Chicago added were all kinda terrible, right?

I dunno I could be wrong but I definitely think MM could add ten points to the team in the standings.

lol I love you guys but ya'll are SO frustrating sometimes. I BADLY wanted to bring talent... ANY TALENT... on to this team the last few years and everyone was like "WAH WEE WAH WE GOTTA SUCK, NOW!" and here I am suddenly on the other side of the fence with you guys and now we're all like "SIKE!" Geeeez.

That’s not what I said at all though. I am making it very clear that you can add Marner and be bad still.

CBJ added Gaudreau and finished bottom 3, and drafted 4th.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think the whole draft lottery makes the "don't sign Marner because he'll prevent them from picking at the top of the draft" argument moot. The dead last place team in the NHL is more likely to be picking #3 overall (55.5%) than #1 and #2 combined (44.5%). Even if Marner was good enough to prevent you from sucking that badly (which he isn't), sucking that badly doesn't even guarantee that you'll be in a position to be picking #1 or #2 due to the lottery.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yeah but I mean... the guys Chicago added were all kinda terrible, right?

I dunno I could be wrong but I definitely think MM could add ten points to the team in the standings.

lol I love you guys but ya'll are SO frustrating sometimes. I BADLY wanted to bring talent... ANY TALENT... on to this team the last few years and everyone was like "WAH WEE WAH WE GOTTA SUCK, NOW!" and here I am suddenly on the other side of the fence with you guys and now we're all like "SIKE!" Geeeez.

I never said this

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

McKenna isn't a generational player. People will be very disappointed if they expect an undersized winger to drive a championship squad like Sid or Mario did.

Kucherov's 6' and like 175. He was arguably the main driving force of a team that won back to back Cups, and nearly had a threepeat.

The fact that McKenna's not a center doesn't matter. People who know a hell of a lot more than you or I are saying he might genuinely be the most talented and dynamic prospect they've ever seen. That's a guy worth throwing away a meaningless season and signing a 28 year old Marner to a max contract to chase. /shrug

You sign Marner because once again, you aren't paying assets for him.

Rangers signed Panarin and then got 1st overall.

The Rangers jumped 9 spots in the lotto to get Lafreniere, didn't they?

 

[Gurglesons]

Kucherov's 6' and like 175. He was arguably the main driving force of a team that won back to back Cups, and nearly had a threepeat.

The fact that McKenna's not a center doesn't matter. People who know a hell of a lot more than you or I are saying he might genuinely be the most talented and dynamic prospect they've ever seen. That's a guy worth throwing away a meaningless season and signing a 28 year old Marner to a max contract to chase. /shrug

Nobody who actually knows puck is saying that.

Tampa's back to back teams were built from the backend with Hedman and Vasi.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I hope we draft an enforcer.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

That’s not what I said at all though. I am making it very clear that you can add Marner and be bad still.

CBJ added Gaudreau and finished bottom 3, and drafted 4th.

I guess I just think that a player of Marner's caliber definitely gives them a discernable point increase. I don't think that's crazy at all.

Right now that isn't advantageous IMO. Just give Malkin those minutes next year. That will help ensure things stay nice and shitty.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I never said this

Didn't mean you. You're the wildcard, bud.