Salary Cap: 24-25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume MXVI: End of season wrap up

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

The man PK’s, PP’s, scores ENG’s. He’s the OG. Sully’s Swiss Army knife since they cut their teeth on the streets of Wilkes-Barre.

"Who's the dorkass hockey guy that makes all the coaches sigh?

RUST

You're damn right.

Who's the Ultimate Penguin man who kisses as much ass as he can?

RUST

Can you dig it?"

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think Marner's gonna have his pick of like half a dozen offers in the $13-14M AAV range this summer. Whether he simply chases top, top dollar, or whether he wants to shave a bit off the top in order to land with a team that has a chance of making noise in the next few years, he's gonna be getting PAID.

Still think it's f***ing dumb to spitball the idea of Marner coming here. Makes no sense for a team in this position to throw a colossal contract at guy when the team's bottoming out, regardless of what they do, once Sid hangs 'em up in two years. It's also f***ing dumb for Marner to even consider this team a landing spot for the same reasons.

I dunno how important staying east is to the guy but I could see a team like San Jose throwing some big cash at the dude now that they've got Celebrini, Smith, Eklund and either Schaefer or Misa (probably, lotto pending). That team's gonna have to start making strides soon, while their guys are on ELCs.

Could also see Carolina chasing Marner. They love to make a splash and they have a buncha money, and they're decidedly a better spot for a "compete now" angle. FO and ownership dynamic seems dysfunctional as shit though.

 

[Empoleon8771]

This is very likely a stupid question, but would it be unheard of to sign Marner with the plan on moving him from RW to C? As in has any other team done something similar where they signed a winger and successfully moved him to center?

If Marner can make that transition and is your 1C going forward, I'd pretty easily easily argue it could be worth it. But that's a huge if though, I don't know of any players who have successfully done that before.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

This is very likely a stupid question, but would it be unheard of to sign Marner with the plan on moving him from RW to C? As in has any other team done something similar where they signed a winger and successfully moved him to center?

I mean if his competetion is blowed-out Evgeni Malkin I think he'll be fine.

 

[SomeDude]

Still think it's f***ing dumb to spitball the idea of Marner coming here. Makes no sense for a team in this position to throw a colossal contract at guy when the team's bottoming out, regardless of what they do, once Sid hangs 'em up in two years. It's also f***ing dumb for Marner to even consider this team a landing spot for the same reasons.

100% agree but at the same time, Kyle Dubas is going to be making that decision. Would it really surprise anyone to see him randomly give a max contract out to one of his former “core four” guys who has already failed him multiple times?

 

[IcedCapp]

This is very likely a stupid question, but would it be unheard of to sign Marner with the plan on moving him from RW to C? As in has any other team done something similar where they signed a winger and successfully moved him to center?

If Marner can make that transition and is your 1C going forward, I'd pretty easily easily argue it could be worth it. But that's a huge if though, I don't know of any players who have successfully done that before.

I don't know if that's ever been done, but I have heard about some of the greatest coaches of all time acquiring HoF wingers and then playing them on their off-wing for no logical reason

 

[molon labe]

Marner has been tried at C before from what I remember.

and wasn't he rumored to play D as well?

2026 Penguins with Crosby fulfilling his lifelong dream of playing Goalie and Mitch Marner replacing Karlsson on the blueline. We shift Karlsson to forward instead of trading him since he doesn't play defense anyway...

I bet we're no worse off. In fact, Sid in net is probably a big upgrade.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

100% agree but at the same time, Kyle Dubas is going to be making that decision. Would it really surprise anyone to see him randomly give a max contract out to one of his former “core four” guys who has already failed him multiple times?

I dunno. I'd be pretty surprised, and annoyed. After refusing to budge on Jake's negotiations, trading Petts, taking on bad players for draft capital, and going for low risk/decent reward guys like Tomasino, Novak and Timmins, I would be shocked if he just said f*** it and threw everything at a win now, 28 year old Marner.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yeah I mean... intentionally taking on trash players on trash contracts for the sake of 9% picks one year then signing Mitch Marner the next would be a pretty clear indicator that this team is f***ing stupid huh?

 

[Ugene Magic]

You have Rakell who can play center.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Apropos of nothing but I can't wait, to sit barf bag in hand, for the inevitable tear jerker of a tribute this stupid f***ing team puts together for Sullivan's first game against the Pens.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yeah I mean... intentionally taking on trash players on trash contracts for the sake of 9% picks one year then signing Mitch Marner the next would be a pretty clear indicator that this team is f***ing stupid huh?

Similar to Gaudreau in Columbus.

Players like Marner are rarely available.

You sign them if they are willing to come.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

If Rantanen is getting $12 million in Dallas, I think Marner is costing $14 million or more for Toronto to keep him. The tax difference alone means Marner would have to take more to get the same contract.

I think he'd sign with the Penguins for $13 million, but I'm really skeptical that Dubas would make the moves needed to make that deal make sense. As in sign Marner while still selling players and trying to rebuild.

I do think that the sponsorships that Toronto can provide can lower that number down.
They also have the 8th year.

I imagine he continues playing but that guaranteed money and how they can max front load that first year helps.


14x7 = 98
12.25x8= 98

He may just be a gonner though.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Similar to Gaudreau in Columbus.

Players like Marner are rarely available.

You sign them if they are willing to come.

This team is overburdened with flotsam and jetsam. You said yourself just yesterday that it would take like 9 trades to get this team back to a clean foundation they could even start to build on. They need a 2C, competent depth players, a defense overhaul and maybe a goaltender or two that doesn't shit themselves on the first shot of every game. And all of that is assuming you can even get rid of like HALF the scrubs under contract blocking roster spots.

I don't see the point. It would be an extremely confused strategy and would tell me this team is just winging it.

This team has negative momentum. Even ditching the loser coach will make minimal to no difference at this late date.

 

[SEALBound]

There is no fixing his defense, which is a big problem why he couldn’t work under Sully.

Every other coach that has had EK accepts he is a defensive liability, but his offensive capabilities make him a net positive for the team.

Sully was not capable of accepting the fact that Karlsson needs to be utilized in a way that fits him
and that the player would not fit into his amazingly flawless system.

That isn’t to say Karlsson is blameless. I am very sick of seeing him out there and hope someone will take him off our hands, but I think his value could be increased under a coach who doesn’t expect everyone to play like Bryan Rust.

Agreed. I think the caveat there is - if you "accept him as defensive liability, but believe his offensive capabilities make him a net positive for the team", that's totally fair but I think you can expect to lose a lot of games just like SJS did and like we did. For him to be THAT big of a liability, he needs to be putting out more points (same thing with Letang). Wanna know how I know he's not putting up enough points? Team record. Not solely on him though.

 

[SomeDude]

Agreed. I think the caveat there is - if you "accept him as defensive liability, but believe his offensive capabilities make him a net positive for the team", that's totally fair but I think you can expect to lose a lot of games just like SJS did and like we did. For him to be THAT big of a liability, he needs to be putting out more points (same thing with Letang). Wanna know how I know he's not putting up enough points? Team record. Not solely on him though.

Yea, I don’t think Karlsson is the same player he was a few years ago capable of providing as much offense as he used to.

At the same time, even before he got here for training camp, Sully was talking about how they can help make him a more complete player. I think it is possible that Karlsson got here, realized the coach was a clown, and pretty much half assed it.

4 Nations showed that he is not as bad as he has looked as a Penguin. Is that because he was around more talent? Is it because he tried? Was it just not being under Mike Sullivan? That is to be determined.

 

[Gurglesons]

This team is overburdened with flotsam and jetsam. You said yourself just yesterday that it would take like 9 trades to get this team back to a clean foundation they could even start to build on. They need a 2C, competent depth players, a defense overhaul and maybe a goaltender or two that doesn't shit themselves on the first shot of every game. And all of that is assuming you can even get rid of like HALF the scrubs under contract blocking roster spots.

I don't see the point. It would be an extremely confused strategy and would tell me this team is just winging it.

This team has negative momentum. Even ditching the loser coach will make minimal to no difference at this late date.

The point is you are getting a 100 pt winger for free.

Figure it out from there. If you reach out and he wants to be here, you do it.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yea, I don’t think Karlsson is the same player he was a few years ago capable of providing as much offense as he used to.

At the same time, even before he got here for training camp, Sully was talking about how they can help make him a more complete player. I think it is possible that Karlsson got here, realized the coach was a clown, and pretty much half assed it.

4 Nations showed that he is not as bad as he has looked as a Penguin. Is that because he was around more talent? Is it because he tried? Was it just not being under Mine Sullivan? That’s to be determined.

I think it's funny that a lot of people took the Four Nations thing as "f*** EK he's being lazy" and not "f*** the coach this guy's an idiot."

I think the answer to EK looking like he did in Four Nations is obvious. He wasn't HERE.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

It's just crazy to me to throw around chasing Marner as a team that was bottom 4 at points this season, and is gonna bottom out entirely in two years once Sid retires--if not before then, if Sid takes a step back due to age/injury.

What's a 30 year old Marner matter to a team that's gonna be in the Pens' position in two years?

I say all this from the standpoint of someone who really likes Marner, and thinks it's insane that Leafs fans and that organization marches him to the gallows first whenever anything goes wrong. He's a hell of a player, but it'd be f***ing stupid for a team like the Preds to throw the bank at Marner, it's just as dumb for the Pens--maybe even more dumb.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Similar to Gaudreau in Columbus.

Players like Marner are rarely available.

You sign them if they are willing to come.

Exactly

It’s kinda pointless because he won’t be willing to come

But if he is we absolutely shouldn’t say no.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

It's just crazy to me to throw around chasing Marner as a team that was bottom 4 at points this season, and is gonna bottom out entirely in two years once Sid retires--if not before then, if Sid takes a step back due to age/injury.

What's a 30 year old Marner matter to a team that's gonna be in the Pens' position in two years?

I say all this from the standpoint of someone who really likes Marner, and thinks it's insane that Leafs fans and that organization marches him to the gallows first whenever anything goes wrong. He's a hell of a player, but it'd be f***ing stupid for a team like the Preds to throw the bank at Marner, it's just as dumb for the Pens--maybe even more dumb.

I think Marner is awesome.

It's at least SOME of the reason I don't want him to come to this steaming shitpile of a team.

 

[SomeDude]

The point is you are getting a 100 pt winger for free.

Figure it out from there. If you reach out and he wants to be here, you do it.

If there is one thing this team has been good at recently, it’s taking 100 point players and making them look underwhelming.

I don’t think Marner is the type of guy you sign no matter what. I think he’s a top player, but I do not see how he fits under our timeline. He's not single handedly going to turn us into a contender.

I do not think the Columbus signing Johnny Hockey is comparable. The BJ’s have been irrelevant their entire existence. They wanted to make a splash. We are coming off of one of the most successful runs in recent professional sports history and now it’s time to rebuild.

Unless FSG just wants to be the Steelers aka, be just good enough to sell some tickets and keep peoples attentjon, but never have a chance to win anything.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

It's just crazy to me to throw around chasing Marner as a team that was bottom 4 at points this season, and is gonna bottom out entirely in two years once Sid retires--if not before then, if Sid takes a step back due to age/injury.

What's a 30 year old Marner matter to a team that's gonna be in the Pens' position in two years?

I say all this from the standpoint of someone who really likes Marner, and thinks it's insane that Leafs fans and that organization marches him to the gallows first whenever anything goes wrong. He's a hell of a player, but it'd be f***ing stupid for a team like the Preds to throw the bank at Marner, it's just as dumb for the Pens--maybe even more dumb.

I mean he’s 100% not coming

But I don’t agree. This isn’t the JT miller contract. You’d have him for age 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34 seasons. Realistically a guy as good as him should be pretty solid even in year 7. Not like we’re signing him until he’s 38

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I mean... look... Dubas and the team seemed to pick it's direction last season when they plopped a buncha expensive turds into the lineup to grab a few whatever picks. That's akin to getting up on top of PPG with a giant white flag and waving it around. I hate a lot about it but it's a direction... just stick with it FFS.

 

[Empoleon8771]

What you'll have with Marner in 2 years is a top tier player that you can trade for more assets if he wants to leave to go to a better team.

Obviously you don't sign Marner to trade him early in the deal, but signing him now and saying "if we suck really badly and he wants to move on, we can sell him for more futures" seems like a completely viable option to me. If the rebuild ends up taking too long to happen during the prime of Marner's career, you can still likely get value for him with like 3 years left in his deal.