Salary Cap: 24 25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume Mmxxvii Retool over Time to Go for A Cup in 2026

[Empoleon8771]

some reason to believe pono won’t at least be a strong young 4th line option ala kuhn in 2016?

I'd like to see a reason to think that. Have not been impressed with the little I've seen from him.

I'm concerned he's a AAAA player that doesn't have anything that will make him stick in the NHL.

 

[HandshakeLine]

What "well established" Euro hasn't succeeded in Pgh but has elsewhere?

That's not my argument, though. My point is, the only Euro forwards we've had success with here have been either well-established before they got here. But it's a bit of a faulty comparison anyway because if Euros don't succeed here, they go back to their home leagues. Poolparty might be the exception to this if he sticks in Florida.

Again, as I mentioned up thread, it's probably seen internally as a "we don't have time to develop these guys" issue rather than "we hate Euros", but it works out roughly the same because Sully likes the way dogshit NA guys play and he doesn't have to develop them. They play like dogshit absolutely naturally. By contrast, the NHL club doesn't want to take the time to develop guys into what they could be, they want plug-and-play guys even if the ceiling is far lower.

 

[farscape1]

They're Awful NOW with Rakell and Rust. So, you just wanna keep them to appease the core then?

So you expect fans to pay $100 or more to go see a team with just Sid and Geno play with bums? This is an entertainment business and Rakell and Rust with Sid is money. I rememeber when this team was unwatchable and i do not want to go back to that. Keep the first line together and build out from there. Heck i rather watch Rakell Sid Rust with rest of the roster up from WBS than watch Sid with 2 scrubs.

 

[Icarium]

So you expect fans to pay $100 or more to go see a team with just Sid and Geno play with bums? This is an entertainment business and Rakell and Rust with Sid is money. I rememeber when this team was unwatchable

I too remember this week.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I mean, even if we leave the Euro angle out, when is the last "talented" guy we have developed since Jake?

 

[Ulf5]

I'm aware. Lots of European pro athletes have newborns and stay in the US.

I guess family means more to some than others.
Now it's time to try to make a bit more money.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I mean, even if we leave the Euro angle out, when is the last "talented" guy we have developed since Jake?

This is Zach Aston-Reese erasure

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I mean, even if we leave the Euro angle out, when is the last "talented" guy we have developed since Jake?

Who was the last talented guy the Pens have had since Jake? It's a pretty short list. Guentzel was drafted in 2013.

Since then, here are the "skilled" players taken in the draft:
Kapanen - flamed out in multiple organizations because he's more interested in clapping cheeks.
Sprong - dropped in the draft, can't stick with any organization in the NHL because he doesn't want to put in effort when he doesn't have the puck
Addison - skilled defenseman briefly popped with the Wild but now isn't even on an NHL contract at age 24. When even San Jose passes on signing you, it's not a good sign
Hallander - Some skill, always profiled as a middle six player at best, jury is still out if he really does come back over
Poulin - Some skill, always more of a power forward, looking like a bottom six player if he ends up cracking the NHL roster after some pretty substantial setbacks with mental health and physical health

The rest are guys still developing (Broz, Pickering, McGroarty, Koivunen) or guys who never had a chance or goalies.

Player development hasn't been great, but the far bigger issue has been player acquisition and identifying skilled players to select. For all he did to bring the team Cups, Rutherford's drafts are terrible.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I guess family means more to some than others.
Now it's time to try to make a bit more money.

This may be harsh, but pro athletes know what they signed up for. It's well within their right to decide to step back, but thousands of others in their shoes find a way to make it work.

 

[Ulf5]

This may be harsh, but pro athletes know what they signed up for. It's well within their right to decide to step back, but thousands of others in their shoes find a way to make it work.

Ride buses in shithole wilkes-barre or spend a couple years with my brand new kid. I see your point. Tough choice.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Ride buses in shithole wilkes-barre or spend a couple years with my brand new kid. I see your point. Tough choice.

If you want to be a pro athlete, you have to make sacrifices. Just like if you want to be elite at any other profession. Sometimes it means being away from family. Sometimes it means lousy conditions.

 

[farscape1]

 

[farscape1]

Looks Like Sink-Or-Swim for Penguins’ McGroarty, Koivunen

 

[Andy99]

I mean, even if we leave the Euro angle out, when is the last "talented" guy we have developed since Jake?

The funny thing is we didn’t develop Jake…he played 4 years at college, and several months into his AHL career, he was up in the NHL…his development occurred long before he got to the Pens lol

 

[Empoleon8771]

The Penguins forward development has definitely been lacking for years, they've basically only generated bottom-6 defensive players like O'Connor, Blueger, ZAR and such. On defense they've had a couple of top-4 hits with Pettersson and Marino, plus in net they've done pretty well even with Jarry's rapid decline.

They haven't developed any top-6 forwards in a while, but that's for a myriad of reasons between not holding onto draft picks and prospects, not giving young players a chance and bad development.

 

[Ryder71]

Looks Like Sink-Or-Swim for Penguins’ McGroarty, Koivunen

Sink in terms of losing ideally, but the kids have a good showing.

 

[Ryder71]

The funny thing is we didn’t develop Jake…he played 4 years at college, and several months into his AHL career, he was up in the NHL…his development occurred long before he got to the Pens lol

How we developed years ago doesn't factor in to how we develop now. I think this new staff will do a much better job. They must hit on and develop these high draft picks. It largely hinges on that for the foreseeable future. I think KD has extracted pretty good value in his trades since this time last year.

 

[Gurglesons]

Who was the last talented guy the Pens have had since Jake? It's a pretty short list. Guentzel was drafted in 2013.

Since then, here are the "skilled" players taken in the draft:
Kapanen - flamed out in multiple organizations because he's more interested in clapping cheeks.
Sprong - dropped in the draft, can't stick with any organization in the NHL because he doesn't want to put in effort when he doesn't have the puck
Addison - skilled defenseman briefly popped with the Wild but now isn't even on an NHL contract at age 24. When even San Jose passes on signing you, it's not a good sign
Hallander - Some skill, always profiled as a middle six player at best, jury is still out if he really does come back over
Poulin - Some skill, always more of a power forward, looking like a bottom six player if he ends up cracking the NHL roster after some pretty substantial setbacks with mental health and physical health

The rest are guys still developing (Broz, Pickering, McGroarty, Koivunen) or guys who never had a chance or goalies.

Player development hasn't been great, but the far bigger issue has been player acquisition and identifying skilled players to select. For all he did to bring the team Cups, Rutherford's drafts are terrible.

Also our coach hates playing young players and would rather see a 27-28 year old AHL burnout than any talent.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

No 4th line minutes for Groats or Koivunen. Rejoice!

Holy hell, that’s a line up a bloke would come up with if he had severe cte and zero idea about who any of those players are.

And for f*** sakes, Bemstrom isn’t an NHL player.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Nelson has had a bunch of interviews due to his AHL success and no one has hired him. He's a Vellucci type, and he's in his mid 50s now. I'd like someone a bit younger.

I think his time will come.

I’ve been a Carle fan for a while now, been pumping his tires here a lot but not as an assistant to Sullivan, that would be tragic.

I know @Jacob mentioned that Slender Man cosplayer, Mitch Love, he’s also a well thought of bloke as a next head coach type. Kirk MacDonald is also well thought of.

Marco Sturm is so insanely overrated. He was so disastrous at running the Kings power play they demoted his ass as a coach to their affiliate. I’d consider Jokinen over him.

But the point is there’s a lot. The biggest morons are the ones that stated and repeated the horse shit “If you fire Sullivan, you’re looking for a Sullivan.”

All coaches are the next someone if you give them a chance. Bylsma was that too, until his own stubbornness sunk him and he admits to that, whereas Sullivan is praised so much, he thinks he shits excellence and pisses glory.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

some reason to believe pono won’t at least be a strong young 4th line option ala kuhn in 2016?

Under Sullivan? Being down on hopes for a player is normal.

Under a coach that isn’t a dipshit , aka anyone not named Sullivan, Quinn and Torts? I see Pono having that bite and skill that reminds me of Sabotka but slightly better skating. A smaller player that is tough as nails and has a motor that doesn’t quit.

But I like Pono more as a winger.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

It is way too premature to put the nail in the coffin of Ponomarev. I would like to actually PLAY him in the NHL before concluding anything. For now, it's all conjecture.

Besides, this team is still "evaluating" Emil Bemstrom for f&^$ sakes.

As for the two kids, happy they are up but can't get excited about it until you know who is you know what.

 

[Hangman009]

I think his time will come.

I’ve been a Carle fan for a while now, been pumping his tires here a lot but not as an assistant to Sullivan, that would be tragic.

I know @Jacob mentioned that Slender Man cosplayer, Mitch Love, he’s also a well thought of bloke as a next head coach type. Kirk MacDonald is also well thought of.

Marco Sturm is so insanely overrated. He was so disastrous at running the Kings power play they demoted his ass as a coach to their affiliate. I’d consider Jokinen over him.

But the point is there’s a lot. The biggest morons are the ones that stated and repeated the horse shit “If you fire Sullivan, you’re looking for a Sullivan.”

All coaches are the next someone if you give them a chance. Bylsma was that too, until his own stubbornness sunk him and he admits to that, whereas Sullivan is praised so much, he thinks he shits excellence and pisses glory.

Not sure Id take this guy over Mitch Love. This team could use some McLovin

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Forget Kirk MacDonald, I'd take Ronald McDonald over Mike Sullivan at this point.

 

[Pancakes]

I'm mostly skeptical that Sullivan wants to take the time to develop anyone. Euros have just a bigger hurdle than NA guys, especially if they show a smidge of talent. My thought is that next year is going to be even more of the "we need to win now, we have a mandate, we don't have time to develop players" bullshit.

What irks me about Sullivan is he insists that he's just trying to put out a lineup that gives the Penguins the best chance to win.

And like when we were a win now team, that made sense. But we're not that any longer. It might be beneficial to the team long term to put younger players out there and let them learn and grow through their mistakes.

It's time for the Pens to admit what they are and not just throw out lineups that are trying to grind themselves into an 8th seed. Take a short term step back to take a bigger step forward long term.