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Salary Cap: 24 25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume Mmxxvii Retool over Time to Go for A Cup in 2026

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Ryder71 said:
Where we disagree is WHY it wasn't met. KD was fine with several components of the deal, he didn't want Clarke. That fit a young NHLer though didn't it? Of course it did. He didn't want that particular player. It was a question of which young NHLer they'd fork over. It wasn't about a first rounder, that was agreed on.

Last time: a '26 1st, Laferriere OR Turcotte and Greentree, a done deal (ridiculous ask no one would meet!)
offered: a '26 1st, Clarke and Moore, no deal
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They can't do that as a deal. Even Dubas knows that. Greentree isn't NHL ready and of course not a late 1st is, either. Money has to come back = Moore.

It doesn't help you have old parameters on the brain as to what a player with term is worth, worth to the team.

A late 1st and Greentree doesn't help their retool. Try to put 2 and 2 together.

I don't know how many times I have to say "NHL ready" players before it sinks in. That's their ask, it is high, and they knew nobody would meet it.

Moore, Turcotte and Laferriere is what they are looking for/at if it even fits their price ask?

I wouldn't even expect them to be traded over the summer either. Too many variables, they don't want too, Global series and the like.

So be up for disappointment.
 
Ugene Magic said:
They can't do that as a deal. Even Dubas knows that. Greentree isn't NHL ready and of course not a late 1st is, either. Money has to come back = Moore.

It doesn't help you have old parameters on the brain as to what a player with term is worth, worth to the team.

A late 1st and Greentree doesn't help their retool. Try to put 2 and 2 together.

I don't know how many times I have to say "NHL ready" players before it sinks in. That's their ask, it is high, and they knew nobody would meet it.

Moore, Turcotte and Laferriere is what they are looking for/at if it even fits their price ask?

I wouldn't even expect them to be traded over the summer either. Too many variables, they don't want too, Global series and the like.

So be up for disappointment.
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Of course they couldn't do that in a deal. Which is why it never happened.

Stop acting as if you know all the in and outs because clearly you do not! You're wrong! And your source is Yohe or that link you sent me? You don't have all the facts, so stop acting as if you do! You have a partial picture, not the entire picture.

How many draft picks has the GM accrued in recent memory? Huh? To act as if he would turn down a '26 1st and arguably their best prospect is stupid! They were very high on Greentree and believed he had a good chance to play in the NHL next year or at worst the year after. They didn't see him as someone they'd necessarily have to wait on long. In Addition They wanted Laferriere OR Turcotte, they DID NOT ASK for both.

Kyle in his presser after the deadline Specifically stated it won't be a quick fix and that fans would need to be more patient. . Go back and watch it if you need to.

The problem was the specific PROSPECT, THEY DIDN'T WANT CLARKE! Get it through your head! They were fine with the 26 1st, the prospects or young NHLers were the other components they didn't agree upon.

Moore would have to be included, everyone knows this! KD essentially sabotaged the deal as a result knowing the Kings couldn't do that!
 
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Ryder71 said:
Of course they couldn't do that in a deal. Which is why it never happened.

Stop acting as if you know all the in and outs because clearly you do not! You're wrong!

How many draft picks has the GM accrued in recent memory? Huh? To act as if he would turn down a '26 1st and arguably their best prospect is stupid! They were very high on Greentree and believed he had a good chance to play in the NHL next year. They didn't see him as someone they'd necessarily have to wait on long.

The problem was the specific PROSPECT, THEY DIDN'T WANT CLARKE! Get it through your head!

Moore would have to be included, everyone knows this! KD essentially sabotaged the deal as a result knowing the Kings couldn't do that!
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Again, put 2 and 2 together.... Retool. A 1st does nothing for them, and neither does Greentree. It doesn't matter what they might feel he can do.

Dubas didn't sabotage anything. The price is the price considering they didn't want to trade him. You can't sabotage something if the price is set up, up front.

What is wrong about that? They wanted the moon for him, get over it.

This is exactly how it played out in Anaheim with him too. Pens tried to get him and wouldn't meet their price until he became UFA. You want to let him go for UFA prices.
 
Ugene Magic said:
Again, put 2 and 2 together.... Retool. A 1st does nothing for them, and neither does Greentree. It doesn't matter what they might feel he can do.

Dubas didn't sabotage anything. The price is the price considering they didn't want to trade him. You can't sabotage something if the price is set up, up front.

What is wrong about that? They wanted the moon for him, get over it.

This is exactly how it played out in Anaheim with him too. Pens tried to get him and wouldn't meet their price until he became UFA. You want to let him go for UFA prices.
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I totally agree they didn't want to trade him! We disagree on pretty much everything else because all Kyle has done in the past year is accrue a boatload of picks and prospects and a view toward the future.
 
Victor Z said:
Don't forget the "game managers" looking the other way at the atrocities of Tom Wilson in two games of our series that playoff year. No major (or even minor) penalties for his cheap shots, nevermind any suspension. It wasn't just the blatant headshots which the refs ignored; remember Wilson's obvious penalty against Maatta (I think) with barely a minute to go in game 3 which directly led to the losing goal?

The Pens won 2 games, the Caps won 2 games.... and the refs won 2 games on behalf of Washington.

But the Pens had just won 2 Cups in a row and it was the Great Ape's turn to get one.
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There was also one game where the Caps player intentionally tripped Murray and scored as he was getting back up. And later Malkin scored a goal that was obviously across the line but the refs didn't count it.
 
Ryder71 said:
Of course they couldn't do that in a deal. Which is why it never happened.

Stop acting as if you know all the in and outs because clearly you do not! You're wrong! And your source is Yohe or that link you sent me? You don't have all the facts, so stop acting as if you do! You have a partial picture, not the entire picture.

How many draft picks has the GM accrued in recent memory? Huh? To act as if he would turn down a '26 1st and arguably their best prospect is stupid! They were very high on Greentree and believed he had a good chance to play in the NHL next year or at worst the year after. They didn't see him as someone they'd necessarily have to wait on long. In Addition They wanted Laferriere OR Turcotte, they DID NOT ASK for both.

Kyle in his presser after the deadline Specifically stated it won't be a quick fix and that fans would need to be more patient. . Go back and watch it if you need to.

The problem was the specific PROSPECT, THEY DIDN'T WANT CLARKE! Get it through your head! They were fine with the 26 1st, the prospects or young NHLers were the other components they didn't agree upon.

Moore would have to be included, everyone knows this! KD essentially sabotaged the deal as a result knowing the Kings couldn't do that!
Click to expand...
He’s very much talking out both sides of his mouth. This is the same press conference.

To some, this might look like a full, tear-it-down-to-the-studs rebuild. But Dubas has continued to reiterate - again and again - that he's trying to turn the Penguins' bleak situation around as "urgently as possible."

"I think I’ve always come in and said there’s no ambition, on my end, to have this take any longer than it needs to take, both for the city and for the people who have put in a lot to keep the Penguins at this level for a long time,”
 
wheelz87 said:
Was that Geno? Could have sworn hornqvist was involved in one of those types of plays too. That series was beyond BS
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It was Horny, and it happened in the 3rd period of game 2 which the Pens went on to lose. That was also the game in which Brian Dumoulin played only about 9 minutes because of being on the receiving end of a Tom Wilson-Alex Ovechkin double-team cheap shot; unpenalized because Dumo "moved his head".
 
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Gurglesons said:
Glad as fans we are following the franchise's order of complaining about things or celebrating things that happened 8 years ago.

Penguins got away with a ton of stuff in both their cup wins. It takes luck. Caps beat us fair and square. Largely because of Sullivan's ineffective coaching in 17-18.
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Nah not complaining or celebrating anything. Was just trying to carry along a conversation I had interest in - albeit a bit off topic. But still better than the normal conversation here, which can be summed up with your last sentence.
 
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Ryder71 said:
We can agree to disagree as that's not accurate, a 1st, a top prospect and a young roster player is what he asked for. The Kings were gonna give us a 26 1st, a prospect Dubas didn't apparently want (Clarke) and Moore. KD wanted a 26 1st, Greentree and either Turcotte or Laferriere for Rakell and a '25 3rd or the equiv.

If that deal happened that might have been arguably value wise one of the greatest trades in Team history. That's a crazy ask.

Capwise that wouldn't have worked for the Kings.
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Where are you reading this at?
 
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Pens will address the center position in the draft. Maybe 2 depending on the Rangers pick. I have posted I like O'brien if Pens don't get into the Misa position with the lottery. But still this is a 2 year rebuild as to center and RW. I still think Dubas will be very active with Karlsson, Rust and or Rakell. the contracts and term are far more valuable now in a rising cap and salaries dropping from here on. Now my guess is higher end prospects r some combo is what Dubas wants. Jarry will be back and Graves can be at this point an expensive 3rd pairing. But cap will be 37 million with trades.
 
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Trade every roster player of value you can. Sign enforcers and brutes at both Forward and defense, from any league you need to. Use a sieve goalie from ECHL.
Move Imama to 1st line wing.
Fundamentally shift the team identity to one that's super easy to win against, but one that is near impossible to escape without injuries.
Fire Sullivan. Offer Torts double what he's paid in Philly, with the mandate that he batter the opponent on a nightly basis.

Lose to oblivion. Draft McKenna.
 
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AuroraBorealis said:
Trade every roster player of value you can. Sign enforcers and brutes at both Forward and defense, from any league you need to. Use a sieve goalie from ECHL.
Move Imama to 1st line wing.
Fundamentally shift the team identity to a one that's super easy to win against, but one that is near impossible to escape without injuries.
Fire Sullivan. Offer Torts double what he's paid in Philly, with the mandate that he batter the opponent on a nightly basis.

Lose to oblivion. ^Lose the draft lottery. Don't get to draft McKenna.
Click to expand...
 
HandshakeLine said:
I would rather watch a team of enforcers than another year of Sullivan hockey.
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"you listen to me, and you listen good... Get me nine---no, sixteen Kelly Buchbergers, you son of a bitch!"

1000013310.png
 
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OtherThingsILike said:
I'm not sure. It depends on how repeatable I think Protas' season is.
I don't have an exact formula for determining who would be 'better than Crosby'. For instance, in Protas' case, I would argue that he's had a better season than Crosby because (when I checked the stats this afternoon) while he had 63 points to Crosby's 78 (now 79), Protas was +42 compared to Crosby's -20. The 62-goal swing more than made up for the 15-point difference between them.
So to sort of try to standardize the formula a little bit, I would say that any forward who's within 20 points of Crosby but who has at least a 40-point swing (so, is +20 or higher) has had a better season than Crosby has.
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Plus/minus is your determining factor?

Hoo boy. That is one extemely flawed statistic to not only hang your hat on, but overcome 15 point differences.

Have a look at the Caps plus minuses, and the Penguins. Do you think the quality of the team plays a part, or do you think Ovechkin's all-around game is just that much better than Crosby's? You know the answer.
 
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HandshakeLine said:
I would rather watch a team of enforcers than another year of Sullivan hockey.
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I would rather watch anything right about now than another year of Sullivan hockey. It is the biggest deflator since deflate-gate.

Honestly, nothing matters with this franchise until Sullivan is gone. The prospects will continue to marinate, the roster will continue to be littered with Sullivan types, the system will continue to leak goals, the system will continue to eat up the goaltenders, and we will continue to have a steady stream of Massachusetts-born talent.

Cue Chic...these are the good times.
 
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