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Salary Cap: 24 25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume Mmxxvii Retool over Time to Go for A Cup in 2026

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Even if we're putrid next year getting McKenna is highly unlikely. Just try to get a bottom five pick and hope for the best. At a minimum (in what looks to be a fairly deep draft) you're gonna get a quality piece for the future.

They could have a similar scenario this season if they stopped winning meaningless games!
 
Gurglesons said:
If we wanted to draft 1st overall next year, they had to move Rakell out at the deadline.

You're basically asking them to move EK, Rust and Rakell this summer and hope for a Sid injury if you want us to finish 1st overall next year.
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Nah they got it in the bag with the rangers pick :)
 
I also kind of wonder if one reason they kept rakell was to try and get 2026 1rst.

If they can move rakell and karlsson both for 2026 1rst and they get the rangers pick next year that would be huge. 4 first in a deep draft would be awesome
 
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This idea that the Penguins aren't allowed to move Rakell because they didn't do it at the deadline is stupid and I have no clue why people keep repeating it.

I also don't understand why people here constantly say Rust is a nothing piece but also say that they have to trade Rust to finish 1st overall.
 
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Gurglesons said:
Multiple teams traded 2026 1sts this deadline.
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And none of those teams were interested in Rakell. Name one team interested in him who gave up a 2026 1rst. Let alone any first.

Dallas was the only team who gave up a first for winger. All other first went for centers or a dmen.
 
Empoleon8771 said:
This idea that the Penguins aren't allowed to move Rakell because they didn't do it at the deadline is stupid and I have no clue why people keep repeating it.

I also don't understand why people here constantly say Rust is a nothing piece but also say that they have to trade Rust to finish 1st overall.
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I'm sure Dubas is allowed to move Rakell/Rust. The theory is that if Dubas wanted to move Rakell he wouldn't have supposedly demanded a return that was around the equivalent of Rantanen on a sign and trade for the obvious reason that Rakell isn't worth that value. Rust and Rakell could easily be traded this offseason. The valuation becomes more risky in season on if they will retain the same value.
 
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OtherThingsILike said:
It depends on who's doing the measuring, but there are plenty of forwards who are better than Crosby at this stage, or at least, are having better seasons than Crosby is at this stage.
For instance, while I would not say that Aliaksei Protas is a better hockey player than Crosby is, he's definitely having a better season than Crosby is.
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If you were wanting to build a team to win for a season, would you pick Protas over Crosby? Who makes that "better than Crosby" list for you?

It's an awful short list for me.
 
Ugene Magic said:
Dubas wasn't looking for picks.

Rakell had to return young NHL ready players.
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He would have been fine with a '26 1st as evidenced by all the other draft picks he's accrued! The issue was he wanted a different prospect than was offered, as well as a young NHLer. In other words a ridiculous ask.
 
Ryder71 said:
He would have been fine with a '26 1st as evidenced by all the other draft picks he's accrued! The issue was he wanted a different prospect than was offered, as well as a young NHLer. In other words a ridiculous ask.
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He wanted a roster player and two top prospects.

It's not a ridiculous ask for a 30 goal scorer signed for 3 more years at 5.0 with the cap shooting up. The flat cap era is over.
 
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Ugene Magic said:
He wanted a roster player and two top prospects.

It's not a ridiculous ask for a 30 goal scorer signed for 3 more years at 5.0 with the cap shooting up. The flat cap era is over.
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We can agree to disagree as that's not accurate, a 1st, a top prospect and a young roster player is what he asked for. The Kings were gonna give us a 26 1st, a prospect Dubas didn't apparently want (Clarke) and Moore. KD wanted a 26 1st, Greentree and either Turcotte or Laferriere for Rakell and a '25 3rd or the equiv.

If that deal happened that might have been arguably value wise one of the greatest trades in Team history. That's a crazy ask.

Capwise that wouldn't have worked for the Kings.
 
Dipsy Doodle said:
If you were wanting to build a team to win for a season, would you pick Protas over Crosby? Who makes that "better than Crosby" list for you?

It's an awful short list for me.
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I'm not sure. It depends on how repeatable I think Protas' season is.
I don't have an exact formula for determining who would be 'better than Crosby'. For instance, in Protas' case, I would argue that he's had a better season than Crosby because (when I checked the stats this afternoon) while he had 63 points to Crosby's 78 (now 79), Protas was +42 compared to Crosby's -20. The 62-goal swing more than made up for the 15-point difference between them.
So to sort of try to standardize the formula a little bit, I would say that any forward who's within 20 points of Crosby but who has at least a 40-point swing (so, is +20 or higher) has had a better season than Crosby has.
 
Ryder71 said:
We can agree to disagree as that's not accurate, a 1st, a top prospect and a young roster player is what he asked for. The Kings were gonna give us a 26 1st, a prospect Dubas didn't apparently want (Clarke) and Moore. KD wanted a 26 1st, Greentree and either Turcotte or Laferriere for Rakell and a '25 3rd or the equiv.

If that deal happened that might have been arguably value wise one of the greatest trades in Team history. That's a crazy ask.

Capwise that wouldn't have worked for the Kings.
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Hello, That's a roster player and two top prospects. No matter what Moore had to be a part of the deal. Money in and money out. No picks.

Moore and 2 of Clarke/Turcotte/Helenius/Laferriere<----NHL ready players.

The 1st and Greentree do not hold water to what Dubas wanted. Young "NHL ready" players

He wanted a quick turnover or there was no need/reason to trade Rakell.
 
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Ugene Magic said:
Hello, That's a roster player and two top prospects. No matter what Moore had to be a part of the deal. Money in and money out. No picks.

Moore and 2 of Clarke/Turcotte/Helenius/Laferriere<----NHL ready players.

The 1st and Greentree do not hold water to what Dubas wanted. Young "NHL ready" players

He wanted a quick turnover or there was no need/reason to trade Rakell.
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Again, you're incorrect, a '26 1st was part of the deal. Clarke was offered, no other prospect was. If it were Greentree a '26 1st and say Turcotte, Dubas would have done it. The '26 1st was always gonna be included!

He didn't want Clarke. It was never a question regarding the draft pick, it was a question of which prospects and the Kings offered one, Kyle wanted Greentree and one of Turcotte or Laferriere. So a 1st, a prospect and a young player. Kings offered A 1ST, Clarke AND Moore.

Rakell is gonna be 32, I'm not sure where the hell you think his value is but my lord you and Kyle are significantly overvaluing him. We're not winning with him now are we? It about the future, there is no quick turnaround, IT WAS A MISTAKE!

To suggest a 1st wasn't in the deal is just not true.
 
Ryder71 said:
Again, you're incorrect, a '26 1st was part of the deal. Clarke was offered, no other prospect was. If it were Greentree a '26 1st and say Turcotte, Dubas would have done it. The '26 1st was always gonna be included!

He didn't want Clarke. It was never a question regarding the draft pick, it was a question of which prospects and the Kings offered one, Kyle wanted Greentree and one of Turcotte or Laferriere. So a 1st, a prospect and a young player. Kings offered A 1ST, Clarke AND Moore.

Rakell is gonna be 32, I'm not sure where the hell you think his value is but my lord you and Kyle are significantly overvaluing him. We're not winning with him now are we? It about the future, there is no quick turnaround, IT WAS A MISTAKE!

To suggest a 1st wasn't in the deal is just not true.
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Who was the source on that? Seravelli said it was the prospect of Dubas' choice and next two 1st rounders for Rakell which is obviously an outrageous overpayment for him. I know Yohe called it a "king's ransom" but never heard him specify the request from Dubas. I agree, with you that keeping Rakell into next season is unwise risk.
 
OtherThingsILike said:
I'm not sure. It depends on how repeatable I think Protas' season is.
I don't have an exact formula for determining who would be 'better than Crosby'. For instance, in Protas' case, I would argue that he's had a better season than Crosby because (when I checked the stats this afternoon) while he had 63 points to Crosby's 78 (now 79), Protas was +42 compared to Crosby's -20. The 62-goal swing more than made up for the 15-point difference between them.
So to sort of try to standardize the formula a little bit, I would say that any forward who's within 20 points of Crosby but who has at least a 40-point swing (so, is +20 or higher) has had a better season than Crosby has.
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Crosby is +1 at 5v5 this year. Protas is +29.
You're getting swayed a lot by ENG's, when Crosby is always out there in those situations, and sees them a lot because his team sucks. They've surrendered 19 of them. Washington have surrendered 6 and scored 21.
They should not count them in +/-, but they do.

Plus Protas does not play with EK, Letang, Graves, Grzelcyk etc... stinking things up in our own zone. He's got better defenders and Thompson back there. He also has played with more defensively responsible linemates, like McMichael, Strome, Wilson and Dubois.

Crosby would be well into the pluses on Washington this year, if he was playing at the same level.
Keep in mind the Pens team defense is 31st, and the Caps are 3rd. It's actually remarkable that he's a + at 5v5 at all.
 
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Jared Grayden said:
Who was the source on that? Seravelli said it was the prospect of Dubas' choice and next two 1st rounders for Rakell which is obviously an outrageous overpayment for him. I know Yohe called it a "king's ransom" but never heard him specify the request from Dubas. I agree, with you that keeping Rakell into next season is unwise risk.
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This goes way above Seravalli. The deal was all but done but Dubas didn't like Clarke. He wanted Greentree and ONE OF Laferriere or Turcotte AND a '26 1st. I'm sure there are a couple round these parts who know these details well.

Just to wrap this up, it wasn't TWO 1sts, it wasn't Zero 1sts, it was ONE 1st in '26, plus what I stated.
 
Ryder71 said:
Again, you're incorrect, a '26 1st was part of the deal. Clarke was offered, no other prospect was. If it were Greentree a '26 1st and say Turcotte, Dubas would have done it. The '26 1st was always gonna be included!

He didn't want Clarke. It was never a question regarding the draft pick, it was a question of which prospects and the Kings offered one, Kyle wanted Greentree and one of Turcotte or Laferriere. So a 1st, a prospect and a young player. Kings offered A 1ST, Clarke AND Moore.

Rakell is gonna be 32, I'm not sure where the hell you think his value is but my lord you and Kyle are significantly overvaluing him. We're not winning with him now are we? It about the future, there is no quick turnaround, IT WAS A MISTAKE!

To suggest a 1st wasn't in the deal is just not true.
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He wanted (for the 3rd time) NHL ready players.

Greentree and a 1st is not that. This is not a UFA trade deal. Rakell's age doesn't mean shit. He's got 3 years left at 5.0 for being a 30 goal scorer with the cap rising.

Let's also remember LA has the 26th ranked prospect pool here.
 
Ugene Magic said:
He wanted (for the 3rd time) NHL ready players.

Greentree and a 1st is not that. This is not a UFA trade deal. Rakell's age doesn't mean shit. He's got 3 years left at 5.0 for being a 30 goal scorer with the cap rising.

Let's also remember LA has the 26th ranked prospect pool here.
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You can think what you want, but on this matter you're wrong plain and simple. You don't have 1st hand information on this matter, that's rather obvious.
 
Ryder71 said:
You can think what you want, but on this matter you're wrong plain and simple. You don't have 1st hand information on this matter, that's rather obvious.
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Your's isn't blowing them away, or he would have been traded.

Kyle Dubas' True Plans for Penguins Star Forward Finally Revealed

They had significant offers, but their price was never met.

The roster player top prospect and a 1st is a UFA ask. They wanted a quick turnover if they were to make a deal. A overpayment if you want to say. That's why he's still here.
 
Ugene Magic said:
Nor did he ever expect it to be.

That's a much higher price than you stated. I'm sure he got plenty of roster player, late 1st and top prospect offers.
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Where we disagree is WHY it wasn't met. KD was fine with several components of the deal, he didn't want Clarke. That fit a young NHLer though didn't it? Of course it did. He didn't want that particular player. It was a question of which young NHLer they'd fork over. It wasn't about a first rounder, that was agreed on.

Last time: a '26 1st, Laferriere OR Turcotte and Greentree, a done deal (ridiculous ask no one would meet!)
offered: a '26 1st, Clarke and Moore, no deal
 
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